gwenneth1

A dog of my firends that we knew tried to attack my son. They were playing ball, then we all sat down afterwards. My son sat on a step the dog came and laid next to him and he proceeded to pat the dog, the dog appeared relaxed , I glanced over at the dog for some reason and saw a flash of 'hardening' of the eyes in the dog, I said to my son "Just get up and slowly walk away from him, because he just got a funny look". Son (argued the point) "No he didn't , your imagining things.." . I said 'GET UP NOW and MOVE away slowly NOW". (I can't remember the dog's behaviour at that point because I was so focused on trying to get my son to move). Just as my son withdraw his hand , the dog leapt at his face snapping, it was lucky for him the owner was standing next to the step and grabbed the dogs collar. The owner was shocked and said she knew the dog could be 'funny' with strange men, but he was okay with with men he was familiar with. Prior to the change in the eyes, the dog didn't growl at all, no body stiffening or stillness it was literally a flash of hardness in the eyes. I wasnt observing all the time prior, but the dog was calm and relaxed when laying down, maybe my son stroked him in a way the dog considered a dominant gesture or he was being defensive of his human owner standing close by, who knows. This dog ended up getting pts about three months later as he also did the same thing to her daughter's boyfriend and then her own son, leaping at the face snapping.When the dog leaped up at her son, he had come home from work, leant over the fence and patted him where the dog had his front paws on the fence,all wagging tails, then he leant over again to pat him again prior to opening the gate and according to my friend "he (dog) just went ballistic" at my son. That was the final straw and she had the dog pts. ( I enver thought to ask if she had the dog checked for any health issues though). I'm presuming a man at some point has traumatised this dog, because he was wonderful with all women, so it was a bit of a sad ending for the dog and I think only a good behaviourialist could have helped,though I did not blame my friend for choosing the pts option.

Nilfisk, love it. Picks up hair like you wouldn't believe.

"I am his Highness dog at Kew; pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you? " On the collar of a dog- by Alexander Pope. Makes me laugh every time, imagine bending down and reading that .... (My daughter is getting this engraved on her dog's collar atm). "Tho thou may cast a thousand stones, I will always love thee" "I love a dog. He does nothing for political reasons". - Will Rogers "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around." "My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am" "Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made. " "Dogs' lives are too short. Their only fault, really." - Agnes Sligh Turnbull (Taken from a little book of Dog Quotes I was given for my birthday many (many) moons ago.)

But how do you know anyone breeds a dog JUST to supply the pet market ? What is so terrible about someone breeding dogs primarily as pets as long as they cover the standards,the health etc in comparison to someone who is breeding primarily for a show dog who is also covering it all ? Either one can muck it up. Why do we assume that because some one chooses to go one way or the other that they are doing a worse job of ensuring the well being of the breed than someone else? Dont you see that if you tell everyone how people who breed just for pets suck and if the others tell people that those who breed dogs for the show ring suck that there is a no win there especially in the current anti purebred climate. It separates and causes wars between people who should be on the same side. I don't breed and probably never will. It never ceases to amaze me (personality clashes accounted for) that some who strictly show will sniff down their noses at people that don't show and feel that those in the lattter have no right to breed at all. Likewise those who don't show also sniff down their noses at the "showies" for just having dogs to "be pretty for prizes" (not my words...). Steve is spot on in those couple of paragraphs, because if I choose to buy a purebred dog, it will be from a person who has a genuine passion for their dogs, has ethical standards and are doing their darndest for healthy, mentally balanced dogs. Pet or show....it's the end result that counts for me.

Those who have had long living dogs, would you say that you felt there was a particular diet or exercise regime which you felt helped contribute (along with genetics) to an older age? Just curious.

I was torn between unlikely and never, ever and 99% sure it will be never, ever. The 'good' breeders spend an enormous amount of time, energy and money into getting the best possible outcome. Then there is the whole gestation, whelping and puppy placements-I'm mentally exhausted just thinking of it. I am however, extremely thankful to those good breeders who do so and have only ever had one unfortunate encounter with a 'breeder/kennel', the rest have been superb and I believe 100% with those individuals they would be lucky to break even money wise. I think they also must be slightly nuts (in the nicest possible way) because they expend so much effort into their dogs. I have also over the last twenty six years, adopted about eight dogs of mixed and questionable parentage , who have turned out to exceed my wildest expectations in trainability, companionship and (bar one who died at age 8 1/2 from cancer) lived to a good age without health issues. I don't know if I've just picked well or been extremely lucky with them, but either way I am grateful to have (had) them.

Unforunately some of the dingoes areas of natural resources where they can move around and pick better areas to hunt/pick is becoming less and less. Human hand via encroachment of resources leads to lean pickings>starvation at times and nothing deserves to die like that. I remember that last big drought out nth west knocked the native species of roos/emus around and the ones too weak to keep going could have been left to slowly die with no interference then what nature intended. Lucky for some of those poor sods human interference was in the form of a merciful bullet. I'm sad there hasn't been more effort by government bodies to preserve the pure dingo, I feel it will be looked back upon with regret.

Was a diagnosis and prognosis given?

Yes if this is a family vet of long-standing whose behaviour seems to be changing, I'd say to him I noticed his uncharacteristic handling of the dog and ask if he was OK - out of concern for him. He may well apologise and explain what was going on for him that day or at the moment - or he may brush you off (but at least you tried). Please don't think I'm excusing his behaviour - I'm not - and you should still leave the practice if you are not comfortable - but there is likely to be a reason for the change in behaviour and its not likely to be good. Vet science is a caring profession which is more under the radar from this perspective than human health staff of all persuasions. And the caring professions have high rates of burn out - and doctors in particular have high rates of depression and suicide. Having worked a in place that saw health staff jump off car parks I used to wonder if these professions in their professional isolation and need to appear professionally 'invincible' (for want of a better word) are not in some ways their own worst enemies... and would a couple of them have jumped if someone had noticed... So I don't want to sound morbid either but I think if you can do it I'd talk to him about it... just knowing someone noticed kindly and understood might make a huge difference... gwenneth1 I agree the solution is to get out - I did too - but for some their depression is such that they can't make that decision easily or genuinely can't see a way out - adn that feeling is terrible... Good luck... I agree with your post. I will admit I have an exceptionally lower tolerance level for those who take their frustrations/temper out on those who cannot have a hope in hell standing up for themselves. I don't wish to draw attention too much away from the OP's topic starter, although I was probably amazed in my situation that the several health professionals, who were more than once caught dishing it up to extremely vulnerable patients, were almost treated like a protected species by Management who wanted to avoid scandal. A light rap on the knuckles and away they went to practice (to look after maybe your family...), Police were not called and I copped it but good for putting it in writing. What really disturbs me is what occurred in front of me (and it was disgusting) was done with so little self control, what did these same few do when there were no witnesses?. Same thing with some Vets, if they can be so offhand in front of the owner, the potential for what may go on behind the scenes really concerns me. I may be a tad oversensitive now, but find myself being unsympathetic towards those with a propensity to act like that. Funny such people who supposedly can't control themselves because they are allegedly sunk too far down in their own misery, never lose it with those who have the ability to stand up for themselves, to me that indicates there is some degree of will and self control at play. Again, I do acknowledge that my objectivity is a bit skewed when it comes to such things.

There are other ways to handle and transfer dogs without pulling them around too much. Go with your gut feeling I say, it's usually correct. Personally I haven't got the inclination to pyscho-analyse somebody if they are being rough or unprofessional. I'm not being entirely unsympathetic, nursing and some of the things I witnessed nearly did my head in, but I chose to get out and take a big pay cut. I saw several nurses who physically and verbally abused vulnerable people, yes most likely because they were burnt out (just as I was), but there's just no justifying or excusing some things period.

Agree entirely, with Megz. Point of interest, I was once told by a person who works at the RSPCA that they consider anybody to have more than four dogs to be hoarders. I'm on the cusp of being one (with four), apparently (although the three other grown family members own /care for three of them). I'm on six acres and we are actively planning to relocate to be on about 30-40 acres, having said that,in my situation it would not mean our dog numbers would go up with exception of one more (eldest is 12, youngest is six years) to do obedience and tracking with. It's also keeping our pack dynamics balanced and happy, there is no way I could, for instance bring another bitch here, all hell would break loose.

Yes, It was a previously undiagnosed lesion/tumour in my old girl's case. With her they became more severe and more frequent starting off as barely noticeable changes until they she started experiencing grand mal seizures, arched back, snapping at air and losing control of her bladder as well. The the last one she had, I was with her from ten minutes prior to her having it and it was her third grand mal, she bit her tongue badly and I decided it was enough for her. On the way to the Vet for her final journey, she couldn't move much, but she was very alert and very calm, her breathing was good. She was more interested in her late night car trip with her head on my lap. I kept it together very well, because I didn't want her to pick up I was distressed,I talked to her on the way there and she licked my fingers, but I knew for her sake, she would only be coming home to be buried. The Vet laid out the options and made it clear the prognosis was all down hill, but he had to tell me the other options were to sedate her, admit her and start her on meds and see if she regained full mobility, which was a distinct possibility. The thought of my darling spending a night away from her home and then making the decision to say goodbye in the morning was not an option because I was not going to let her go through one more seizure , so we all talked cheerily and cooed to her , like we usually do and it was over. Then we all cried. I have absolutely no regret in not letting her go through another debilitating fit whatsoever. I am sorry if I sound a tad clinical, but if it is a lesion and progressive in your dog's situation, I would say don't let her go through that, because it physically takes its toll on the dog , prior to the grand mal fits, she was agitated and frightened. Afterwards, she was physically exhausted. It is very emotionally distressing.

;) ;) I've a fairly out there sense of humour, but I don't find this funny at all. A fair percentage of donkeys are often overloaded like this and develop sores on their bodies from ill fitting equipment and hauling excessive weights.. They also suffer from malnutrition and a heavy worm burden . An average life span of a Donkey can be up to 25 yrs, in such Countries it is not uncommon for them live to 3 to 9 years. Poor little sod,

My oh and son were on the way back from work, in front of them were was a 'flashy' ute with a cattle dog tied to the back. It's a shame the young lady who owned the dog did not measure the chain to ensure safety because much to the horror of my oh & son, the dog fell out going around the corner and proceeded to have it's back legs dragged along the ground at 80kms an hour. Flashing lights and a frantically beeping horn did not stop the ute, my oh speed up, overtook and stopped the car. The dogs back legs were a mess, the young lady promptly dissolved in tears but my family were in such a state that the oh let rip and sent her packing to a vet. It distressed my male family members to the exent that it was two days before my Husband told me what happened. My daughter had a busted friendship with a girl who's boyfriend's brothers tormented and abused her staffy (trying to turn him into a 'guard dog') to the exent the poor sod would urinate if he heard a male voice. My daughter had heated arguments with them to provide this poor dog with a kennel in winter-succeeded, then bedding in the kennel and so on it went. We offerd to take the dog because we felt so sorry for him even though we have enough dogs. He was pts because he broke his foot jumping off a ute onto concrete and they didn't have the money to have him treated-three weeks later they bought two new pedigree pups, a pom and a pug. Yes, we are collectively unimpressed how some people treat dogs.

I've had mostly good experiences even with breeders that I didn't end up getting a dog off them, they didn't try and talk me in to their choice of dog breed,but rather gave me really solid information for me to base a decision on. I've only had one negative experience with one breeder, who let me know that she was 'somebody' in the show dog world and intimated I would be lucky to get one of her pups if she chose to let me have one. Also got extremely irritated with about half a dozen questions I asked, like I was questioning her authority and qualifications. I realise breeders probably have to deal with Charles Darwin Hall of Famers from time to time, but in this instance the way she spoke almost made me say "yes, your Majesty". :D I still keep in touch with one breeder, even though I don't have that breed of dog anymore-she was and remains terrific. A wonderful source of information with all things dog. I agree with the post below, most people at dog shows are happy to talk about their breed at a convenient time and I haven't found (contrary to all the horror stories I hear) them to be bitchy or rude at all.

I've also seen Vizsla's referred to as Pit Bulls; Labs as golden retrievers; Schnauzers as poodles and French bulldogs as big pugs. Goes without saying that a lot of bull breeds are frequently referred to as Pit Bulls. Aside from the Vizsla/Pit Bull comment, the best to date I've witnessed would be a Puli referred to as a Poodle with a knotted coat (at a dog show, luckily the lady with the Puli did not overhear that one!)

In a perfect world we would have lots of money stashed away to cover all sorts of emergencies: For when our car's transmission & electronics shat itself together $2700.00 (can't remember the exact amount for the mechanical thingos ); for the horse who gets severe colic and costs us $3500.00 to save and mend; for the dog who has a growth in his ears $850.00; for the dog who was run over the top of whilst on lead by somebody's horse going nuts $750.00; for the horse who decided she didn't like her paddock buddy so much any more and splits her leg to the bone $1650.00; for the kid who has been born with a cross bite and crooked teeth (courtesy of yours truly) extensive dental and orthodontist work $7,500.00 (of which private health will cover $3000.00); for the horse who is in chronic pain with stones ( investigative & ab treatment then several major operations and rehab ) $8500.00........... Yep, we had some money stashed away but we had three of those in one year which pretty much cleaned out our "put away" stash, not whinging, that's just the way it goes. It doesn't make me good or bad, but in the world I live in doesn't have an inexhaustable amount of money (but I'm giving that theory a good go with Oz lotto tickets :rolleyes: ), but I would hope that in some exceptional circumstances that Vets would (and have) be gracious enough to cut us some slack with payment up front. As we do extend this courtesy to some as well. It's a bit hard telling an elderly pensioner, this is going to cost you $1800.00 (and that is with honestly the empathy clause we have in taking money off for such people) and leaving them in the lurch. (I do not insure any of my animals anymore, after spending so much on premiums and getting so little back, it did not prove cost effective for my situation) As I say, I do appreciate both sides of the argument, but in the case of life and death, it's pretty cold to want every penny up front or you will knowingly let that animal die, especially after there is goodwill shown by most monies being offered up front.

My oh runs his own small business, most customers are great but some have proved to be first class a-holes who we had to chase and chase for accounts to be paid. Amounts could be as little as $75.00 or as much as $10,000.00, it is time consuming and costly to chase up people to pay accounts. On one occasion we spent $2500.00 via courts to get a $3000.00 payment due and we did only because we were sick of getting screwed over by people who would cry poor but go for o/s holidays or drive around in their new cars.(It gave us great satisfaction to know that the customer ended up spending the same on legal costs so the $3000 bill became $5500.00) Also, our material suppliers tend to not give a rat's butt whether we've had a cheque bounce or not being paid when their money is due. We no longer have accounts but for the occasional emergency cases we do send invoices later because we feel it is unfair to expect people to come up with a reasonable amount of money (depending on what it is) at short notice. (Personally, we do not have credit cards and have bank accounts with $1000.00 day limit and do not have a lazy two thousand sitting around our house so we are assuming most other people do not and cut them some slack accordingly). I think if a deposit is asked for fair enough but to put a dog's life at risk because all monies was not forthcoming is pretty miserable. I have a great relationship with our current vet, but the previous one we used was a money hungry sob and their business has dropped off like you wouldn't believe because of their over the top charges and the way they conducted themselves. Once upon a time you would drive past and the parking lot would be full, now at any given time you see two or three cars. All vets are not saints, a few even dislike most animals they have to deal with and should not be in the business at all. Our Vet is universally liked by everybody I speak too for being an excellent vet and an all round nice guy who does give a crap about animals. He has an accounts settled at end of consult or surgical procedure, but on the one occasion we had an emergency case he sent us the account two weeks later, but if we'd used our previous Vet whom we had a good financial history with, it would be too bad, money up front thanks. I can see both sides of this story as presented, but to turn a desperate owner away with the offer of most of money upfront is pretty ruthless and hardassed in my eyes.

And that is exactly why some people just should not continue their lineage. Obviously comes from a long line of knuckle draggers and f***wits!

Jesus...........sad is right.........I would really like to see the follow up for that....I simply cannot fathom somebody beating at the door to get in with somebody shaking there head and saying no, especially with a camera trained upon them. What is really awful is right up to an hour ago, on the news it had scrolling down the bottom all the names of the evacuation centres, imagine turning up and beingdenied entry..... That is eerily similar with some aspects of New Orleans... Some was due to not taking the situation seriously but some was due to the fact a lot of people simply didn't have the means to get out and a huge lack of foresight by the authorities. A lot simply died. I feel the same sense of sadness as I did with the Vic bushfires...all those people and all those animals....... I hope to hell that some sort of miracle occurs and it dissipates at sea..........

I had a friend (had multiple trips getting her kids, horses ,dogs and cats out), the final trip was to collect two remaining dogs. Unfortunately the fires closed around and she was choppered out. They said she would have to leave the dogs, she said bugger off (well stronger than that) and said she would burn with them. They took them all. What would happen if you rocked up with your pets? I don't think some officious evacuation worker would be game to make you sit outside with them, just imagine the media getting hold of that one? I would NOT leave my four legged family behind. Imagine the terror of those animals locked up and left to face that without their pack leader-no bloody way!!!

From memory they have to be quite dehydrated (not just a little but starting to get to problem levels) for this method to indicate dehydration. Yeah, on a drip or nasal drench for horse. Even though I have a nursing background, I have no objectivity when it comes to my kids or animals. It's either the Doctor or the Vet if I'm in any doubt. I operate on the better safe the sorry motto, helps keep what little sanity I have left intact. :D

Also sign of dehydration is lack of elasticity in skin. Gently pull up a fold of skin where it is fleshy/loose (near neck is good). If it is slow to retract or bounce back to original postion then that is a good indication of dehydration.

All the people, all the animals..................

I have now learnt to check rescue organisations out, most are great, but a few become answerable to nobody but themselves. Case in point: Neighbour 1 repeatedly stops Neighbour 2's dog from getting hit on highway. N1 speaks to N2 about their concerns and suggests N2 should have fencing (yep you are reading correctly). N1 is quite fond of dog, offers to take dog on, N2 refuses. Ranger spots dog out again takes to a refuge which supposedly helps animals. N2 says "Na, sick of the dog, don't want it". Neighbour 1 goes to shelter and expresses interest in adopting the dog. Dog loves people, other dogs and loves N1. Refuge does cat test with dog (who hasn't been exposed to cats). Cat on one side of pen fence dog on other, dog runs up and barks at cat through fence. Dog fails test, dog is deemed unsuitable for rehoming by two head honchos of said Refuge and dog is euthanised. N1 is devastated. N1 tells me story and it confirms what I thought of this org, run by a several militant dickheads who have driven a lot of volunteers/fosters away with their apparent meglomanic behaviour. I will reiterate, MOST people are in rescue to make a positive difference, some are in it for their own self satisfying glory and power. That's why transparency is essential and people sometimes need to ask questions without the "How dare you question saint so & so" and so they end up a law unto themselves. I learnt during nursing that most in health care are great, but some put on a good front and aren't nice human beings in the Nurses station away from public ears and eyes, same thing with applies with some rescue orgs. I am now being a lot more careful where I throw my support behind. All that glitters isn't necesasrily gold.