gwenneth1

In NSW its illegal to use an electric fence around dogs. A dog run or a yoke. Is it? Hell's Bells, I didn't know that! I've got electric stand offs around a perimeter spanning acres- keeps Horses off- dogs in.

I guess there's a lot of "...depends upon...". Eg, Depends upon the state of her (now burned down property)-kept clean, good fencing ec; the condition and care the animals receive; nuisance barking etc etc... to whether it is out of control hoarding and neglected animals or not. So does she own seven dogs and nine cats and her friend own the other seven dogs and remaining cats?..... (and is this short term accommodation or not...) Interestingly, I have many times seen registered pedigreed dog breeders have 14 dogs and more, many of those with fine reputations and quality dogs, as well as the obligatory pet cats; goat or pig, two horses to a herd and livestock esp if in a rural setting or does Council allow registered breeders to have more than the mandatory amount?

Of course it does. The general public is starting to find out what puppy mills are really like. They will say or do anything to keep their business turning over a profit. They are lying, that sort of supply cannot be kept up by the odd family breeding their 'perfect' mutt so that kids see the miracle of birth. That sort of supply screams puppy mill. Even if they don't use puppy mills I bet you they use byb's.One such "person" that I worked with informed me how "..her staffy dog was 'pregnant' again and she's not even a year old" (said proudly)"Yeah, this time I want more than $50 each for them, cus that pet shop sold 'em for $500.00 each, that rip off artist." I'll spare you the rest of this conversation, but it also emerged that these pups were five weeks old when delivered to the Pet Shop . When I pointed out they should stay with their Mother until eight weeks she said "Yeah, but its all sweet, the Pet shop owner said I'll have to tell the Vet when they get microchipped they're eight weeks". (I did try to talk to this woman about this,but dealing with a type that was inherently stupid and greedy made it a lost cause). Only the fact that I was in a working environment and her superior at that time made me keep a lid on it. This woman had one dog and one bitch, not your typical image of a puppy farmer as such, but definitely just as bad.

I remember reading a USA news report a few years ago with a Polic Dog left in a car with a/c running that still died from heat exhaustion (Southern STates)...

List of breeds I've never had but always wondered about, in no particular order: 1)Mountain Cur (Not in Australia) 2)Smooth Fox Terrier 3)Smooth Collie 4)Belgian Shepherd-Laekenois 5)Bull Terrier 6)Whippet 7)Griffon Bruxellois 8)American Bulldog 9)German Pinscher 10)English Staffy

I'm from questionable Irish Stock ...say no more...

Really sorry for you all.

If I had read it, It would honestly not have occurred to me it may be a website template issue until it was pointed out. I find the term personally off putting, because I have met a breeder who talked as her dogs as a 'business' and 'products' that had to be 'marketed' in a particular way (and for me that was not a person I would buy a dog off). I guess everybody has their own way of looking at things though.

No insights... just eye candy... *grin* T. Hell yeh !!! ;) What!? No way, The Bionic Vet is superior in every way to Roger Ramvet ! If there was a poll on this you would see how little 'eye candy man' would rate. Sorry to be harsh, but somebody has to snap you both back to reality :D

Looks like a nice working dog Petsitters. What's temp/working drive like? (as far as obedience/agility would go). (I like blacks and sables): I've seen a few nice dogs from kennels, can't remember them all because this was sticky beaking on the net (so this is based on looks only, obviously temp/working ability), but I do remember: Macklin (love her dogs); Beychief;Vonchienloup;Gipfel (fair few in stacked position);AWSDT kennels and there's Eishund -(white swiss shepherd-still trying to work out white gsd/white swiss) . Some dogs on the sites I like better than others, personal preference.I've seen some black GSD working lines but I truly can't remember the names (should have added to favourites i guess..) I again, do think Nekhbet's post says it all neatly.

The worst experience I ever had was a working line GSD, even crated next to our bed at night he never let up for the first two days. We could be physically with him and he would still whine, looking for his Mother and litter mates for a week and a half. I humanised it somewhat and took it as a complete lack of bonding, I'd never experienced this with any dog or pup in my life, drove me nuts. What worked: Crating over night and making the crate a place he wanted to be, quite often you hear to line it with paper, I lined it with soft,snuggly material and put a biscuit in with him as well as a safe toy. I left background noise going in form of a radio with short period of crating during the day . For the first three weeks I had planned somebody to be here 24/7 and worked on increasing the time frame he would be left alone, everybody in the house had to be on the same page with interactions and a low fuss method. Cut a long story short it worked. Out all the dogs I ever had (including two other GSD's) he was the most vocal about everything, a talker as such, which was just his personality, turned out to be a great dog. It's hard when it's your first dog, maybe (I keep reading about a guy in Sydney on these forums -if that's where you are? Steve Courtney ? sorry spelling) get a recommended dog behaviouralist or trainer to help you manage your pup and for you to educate yourself. Knowledge is empowerment. As far as the neighbours, maybe approach them personally and apologise for the noise, explain the pup is still adjusting and explain the proactive steps you are taking and thank them for their patience. If you do this, maybe it will help you with your anxiety levels which most likely feeds the situation with the pup. I feel from your post you are a decent person who feels really bad about the situation and other than lack of experience and not having the tools to have realised what owning a dog can be like as a first time owner, contacting the breeder would be hard thing to do, that took courage and decency. Benefit of hindisght may have seen you not get a pup, but living in the present tense is what has to be resolved.

Summed up nicely

Lets say hypothetically speaking that model is universally agreed upon by various organisations and it becomes compulsory (never mind how this is supposed to be enforced): Does that apply to: Dogs who are going to be used for breeding? Dogs of a specific breed? Dogs who are being considered for importation? Dogs who are in rescue and being considered for euthanasia or rehoming? Dogs who have a DD declaration and it is being contested? Dogs who have been abused and assessed for rehab-or if they fail the test once, euthanasia automatically applies? (Dogs who have a known history of abuse by a specific gender/type, same gender/type does test for instance?) A proposal that all dogs council or kennel registered now have to be assessed ? Who does the test: authorised, qualified (and what qualifications, authorisations are recognised and by what authorities/organisations?) and fees involved? Does the same sort model apply for dogs facing a DD order due to DA or Animal Aggression? Does a small fluffy dog or cat does a walk by(or a more realistic test would be to expose said dog to a jumpy bouncy, quick moving animal as so frequently happens in real life) by a dog and if they do any of the above they then are considered to have potential for a dangerous dog order therefore not suitable for rehoming and automatically euthanised? (and that is regardless of breed, so if you have a sighthound or working dog for example, there are no consdieratons made for what that dog was historically bred for? (Actually, this happened to people I know who wanted to adopt the unwanted next door neighbours dog. Friend went to RSPCA to adopt, dog apparently failed cat test because in ran at (lunged) at a cat through the fence even though it is highly likely it was first time he saw a cat, but was considered unsuitable for rehoming and was euthanised). How stringent does the proposed model be, do dogs have to pass a cat, poultry, dog, guinea pig test? After all, if a dog attacks/maims/kills any of those as there has been instances where this has appeared enough to have a Dangerous Dog declared. Even now the problem not so much lies with regulations/rules, but interpretation of those already in place; subjective nature of those rules and those who are apparently qualifed enough to be the chosen ones who apply those regulations/rules. Anway, I guess I've once again strayed off topic because the poll is: AnywayIf the breed standard for some breed calls for HA or DA temperament, what should be done? Ban importation of the breed Require special licensing for owners of the breed Nothing. Other (please clarify) and again my answer is it is so simple to merely alter the wording of the standard and this becomes null and void.

If the breed standard for some breed calls for HA or DA temperament, what should be done? Ban importation of the breed Require special licensing for owners of the breed Nothing. Other (please clarify) lilli, the above is what I was responding too. Although I suggested merely changing the wording of a breed standard as tongue in cheek, in all seriousness, this is how silly the poll is because if the words were merely substituted with the stroke of a pen, it would automatically render such debates be null and void. I agree with the points you are making. Perhaps sandgrubber could clarify whether this is strictly referring to the Fila (which to my knowledge doesn't exist in Australia) or what specific breeds are being referred to? As far as not being able to be patted by a stranger, there are a lot of dogs who either are uncomfortable or not tolerant of it. For example, I would never go up to a working dog tied in the back of its vehicle to give it a friendly cheerio, because for all intents and purposes, that dog is guarding its property/slice of territory as well as being on a chain. Yet there is sure to be some people that feel it is perfectly acceptable or expected that they should be able to go up and pat that dog and it be completely unreasonable for that dog to not be anything but be a happy recipient of their attention. I would presume in this situation (and many others) that the most intelligent of the two species would have some insight and alter their potential behaviour accordingly (...and I bet there are some DOL's thinking "the poor dog having to monitor its behaviour ...again... ). Even if hypothetically all dogs that were super human and dog friendly nothing but seletively bred, that still won't address or reduce a human beings capacity for stupidity and therefore, the most tolerant and nicest of dogs could always be placed in an untenable situation where it may bite. You cannot ever regulate stupidity, that is why some breeds of dogs get an unwarranted bad reputation. An example of human stupidity, a "family member " has a poodle. Lovely little fellow, but an anxious ball of stressed out energy, so desperate to please ,frustrates "f/m" . To "f/m" this poodle is an ill bred,basket case. He's not, but "f/m" refuses to recognise her intereactions/actions with him trigger his anxiety/behaviour (hell, she triggers my anxiety!). A classic case of a sensitive and highly intelligent dog with the wrong type of person whois the cause, yet "f/m" holds this against the entire breed instead of RECOGNISING the problem LIES WITH HER . Maybe its people that need a breed standard THEN get matched to a dog...

The difficultie arises with an individuals definition of what constitutes aggression. What one person considers a 'trait/action' to be completely unacceptable is opposite in another's view when circumstances are considered. For instance. HA; Is it a dog that bites somebody when protecting its owner from attack? Is it a dog that protects its property from a stranger? Is it a dog that barks and growls at a stranger until its owner says "it's ok"? Is it a dog who growls but settles itself in away from the stranger but keeps an watchful eye? Is it a dog that bails up a stranger, but when its owner makes an appearance goes "its all good, my owner is here"? Is a dog that dogs nothing, but just keeps away from a stranger-appears 'overly' wary? Is it a dog that has been trained for protection work or schutzhund? Or is it that random dog in a public area that seemingly attacks unprovoked? Is it a dog that MAY have traits where it could be trained for manwork? Is HA a dog deemed to be so because of the way it expresses itself with verbal/body posturing only or one that actually bites? The list of examples goes on and then there is the whole saga of whose interpretation is the one chosen to decide the fate of a dog/breed. Same with DA or Animal Aggression. Is a dog potentially declared dangerous because it would chase and possibley maim or kill a cat/dog that wandered onto it's property? Is a dog that kills/attacks the pet rabbit/guinea pig/chook? Is it a dog with the propensity to chase and 'grab' small furry animals? Is it a dog that ignores other dogs but will snap/bite/attack another for invading its personal space because the other dog failed to 'read' it's non verbal warnings? Is it a dog that bites/heels/chases a horse or cow? Is it a dog that for example, is in an unaturally small space such as a pound environment and external stressors see a normally tractable dog attack another? Is it a dog who won't share its food bowl with another? Is it a dog regarldess of environmental factors that bites or lunges/postures up at another dog deemed dog aggressive regardless. It's very complex and subjective. So now consider hypothetically I have a dog who is good with people, intelligent & tractable; passes all health checks; good with unfamiliar dogs (in a public domain), but attacked a dog straying onto his territory/my property would this be considered to be dog aggressive or an acceptable reaction and is it appropriate to breed him or not? The other thing to consider, lets suggest that the breed registry decides to change its wording or its standard to be more politically/publically acceptable and remove words that have potentially upset some members of the public, theoretically you have the exact same dog without the old standard. So if its just the wording of the standard, would this dog then be deemed acceptable? "If the breed standard for some breed calls for HA or DA temperament, what should be done?"Answer: Change the wording of the breed standard removing 'offending' words :D