Saffioraire

Another problem that shows at this age (very uncommon) but who knows - pups with esophageal problems. A stricture, mal formation of the sphincters that connect the stomach to the oesophagus, etc. The problem "arises" at this age because up until now they can help themselves to food, and you may not notice that they are feeding more often than others. Once weaning begins they cannot control their own food intake and they stop growing/ go backward. No idea how it is detected, and I'd imagine it's much less common than heart problems etc but you never know.

Thanks everyone who came and said hi!! Made the day even more enjoyable :) We did have a stand booked for Saturday 29th but have cancelled due to lack of resources. The WSSD will still be there on the day for Group judging and we will make the same info available for everyone. AWESOME Lili!! I've encouraged others to post in here to advertise their less common breeds (hence the thread title being so generic) so I'm glad to see it! Good luck at the Royal and I hope it's a successful day for you and your lovely breed :)

WHITE SWISS SHEPHERD DOG BOB & BCC Ch Kesari of Skah Dakota (Imp NDL) RUBOB & DCC Ch Saffioraire Albarino Weekends Res Dog Ch Uran Shiro of the White Wolves Home (Imp NDL) Res Bitch Ch Andesyn Little Bit Jealous

Tomorrow!!

1,2,3,4 style, only class in Group is Puppy. Thanks. Puppy or Baby Puppy??

I can't remember do they do the Melb Royal 1,2,3,4 in Group no classes or does it run as per our usual shows? Thanks

If you ever bring one across can you please let me know? I would be interested to hear your thoughts on them. I have several friends in Europe who are involved with &/or breed these dogs and they are on my list of "when the children leave home" dogs I'd like to own. I have heard trickles of information regarding their trainability and temperament but I am not confident enough to bring one over and start off with them myself - not until I've learned a lot more about them at least.

No unfortunately One day I will travel over! Hopefully with one of my pups from our next litter we will do some "globe trotting" or at least Australia trotting!! For anyone who isn't much of a Royal Show fan we will also be at the Big Day Out for Dogs @ KCC Park early December. Will post a reminder when the time comes ;)

Judging commences at 10.00 am. Thanks Liz! All I know off the top of my head is we'll be on later and I have to be there stupidly early! Will put up more specific details when I have the time to nut them out ;) Might not get much of a chance to walk around but will try, would be nice to meet you considering we live down the road from each other!!

Thanks! It should be a great day. Just trying to get the word out there, so many times people ask questions and so it's nice to spread the word when they can have a good chance to go over info and see the dogs in person Sure we will get plenty of skew questions, doesn't worry me too much :)

For anyone who is interested the White Swiss Shepherd Dogs will be represented by a breed stall at the Royal Melbourne Show on Wednesday 26th & Saturday 29th September. The breed stall is being held by the Greater White Swiss Shepherd Dog Association of Victoria Inc (VCA Affiliated)

Does that mean the WSS is not a family guardian or watch dog? I'm going to try my best with this - but others may have differing opinions. I would say in answer to your question, that yes they can be both of these things - it is, however, how the individual expects a 'family guardian' or 'watch dog' to perform. They are still supposed to be slightly aloof (defined as: not friendly or forthcoming, conspicuously indifferent, distant) however not agressive in their manner. So, for example, my dogs will bark at strangers who come onto our property, they will run to us and let us know people are here, they may even in some cases follow them from their car to our door and let out barks. They don't ever bail people up, bare teeth, show agression in the manner of threatening violence. Family Guardian - it would depend how you define a guardian. On a quick look up I cannot see any definition that directly implies violence where necessary - however I would imagine a 'protector' would use force and/ or violence when necessary. A story I like to tell is me at home asleep on my couch with the dogs resting next to me on the floor. My husband and his friend 'Bruce' were home ('Bruce' was known to my dogs) when 'Bruce' saw me asleep he thought it would be funny to tickle my feet, so he started to walk towards me and the dogs sat up. He thought 'they know me' so ignored them and when he got closer to touch me they both growled at him. I have no idea what they would have done should he have chosen to keep going, but he immediately backed off and they stopped growling, and once he walked away they laid down. The seriousness of their intent to protect increased as the threat increased but it also decreased when the threat reclined. So maybe, maybe not - depending what your expectations of a Guardian is? I'd be interested in your opinion as someone who deals more so with 'Guardian' dogs. A watch dog I would say yes - because my definition of a watch dog is a dog who 'keeps watch' and alerts you when there is a threat. I would (personally) expect a guardian to use force if necessary, I would not expect this (or want it) from a watch dog. But again that is my interpretation and expectations - if yours differ I would be more than open to that discussion. My dogs are alert - they are attentive and watchful - they bark when there is a perceived threat and they usually come to let me know by means of excited behavior coupled with a bark, a keen interest in one direction, intently muzzling my hand or body and walking off in one direction watching me as if they are asking me to follow. We live on property and they do this behavior for strange people and unusual wildlife activity (ie there is a new wombat hanging around which took them a few days to get used to and they still perk up when he comes into the house block over night). They do NOT bark at nothing, and if they are aroused by something I never ignore it. I would say that they are not good Guard dogs. My definition of a Guard dog specifically as opposed to a Family Guardian is that a Family Guardian is also a family pet, (s)he is caring for a family and alerting for dangers that are not often serious threats - where as a Guard dog may be employed to protect a yard or a specific job and violence/ agression is expected. I suppose these definitions are also dependent on where you live, if you live in the Broncs and need them to be vicious then no a WSSD is not a good Family Guardian! Secondary to all of this is that I often wonder (and personally I believe) that the standard in this respect may have been written to reflect the behavior typically shown by the breed in it's 'developmental' stage. I have spoken to people who breed & train working WSSD in Europe who disagree with me on this, and say that it all comes down to breeding for traits etc, however a well respected GSD man (breeder/ trainer) with a keen interest and observation for Genetics once said to me (and I still discuss it with him to this day) that over his years he has noticed an element of dogs of certain colours being more predisposed to certain behavior types. In short there is research to suggest that the hormones involved in the gene controlling the 'White' in the Shepherd also controls dopamine production. Less dopamine = less adrenalin / less drive / less agression? Perhaps. It would also perhaps explain why the temperament of the WSSD was written as it is, and to be so different to that of the GSD, when they were of course bred down (or at least it is believed they were bred down) primarily from the GSD. When you have a limited gene pool and selecting for health etc, it would be very difficult to also select only for one specific type of behavior if it did not already exist solidly in the dogs you were using (I am referring to the developmental stages here - not where we are now).

I am in my mid twenties and I take great offense at the notion that "old bitchy ladies" rule the show world. That is why the world of dogs, and many other worlds are dwindling, because young people today don't want to listen and learn - they want to speak and know, and now. Recently at a training night I had one of these "old bitchy ladies" teach me more about the conformation of my dogs in one hour, than I'd manage to teach myself in years. Not because my eyes can't pick the better dog, or because I can't read a standard, but because her eyes had been taught how to read a dog, and how to interpret a standard, by the "old bitchy ladies" (and camp gentlemen) of her generation. It's a wealth of knowledge that is not available to you unless you stop "knowing", and start using your eyes and ears and a polite mannerism and humbleness ... I couldn't show a dog down a dark lane, but I try. I have been laughed at, scorned, congratulated and ridiculed. I agree that unless you have been in those shoes for decades how can you earn the respect to be on the other side, or know the "tricks" of showing to see through them to judge the for the better dog. Maybe the notion of breeding, and breeding champions, is that to breed you can't do it alone - therefore maybe you have had people teach you things along the way. You have learned how babies grow so you can amply judge different age groups. You have lived it (and hopefully learned it) through every litter, and every pup, until finally you learned how to pick the best pup out of 10 very similar other ones. Hopefully to breed you have been trusted with a main register dog, a dog who is not "mediocre" and have been shown how to choose a mate which compliments or counteracts faults - and should therefore not be breeding a litter of "mediocre" dogs destined for the tip yard or the pound. Just my inexperienced opinions... but I am sure there are more reasons behind the rules then a bunch of old bitter twisteds with nothing better to do.

Hehe I put in little arrows to all the definite heads and their spines, except the one spine towards the very right which had no identifiable head but it might be out of the shot as the spine couldn't belong to another head. And the red arrows because it looks to me like there are 2 spines which are almost overlapping, and the possible head which might belong to the second spine?? So thats 7 maybe 8 and possibly even 9 if there is one hiding behind the organ up the top. Good luck! ETA on second thoughts that "random" spine on the far right could be attached to a head and the pup is on a strange angle so his rib cage looks skewed. So then I'd say 7 or 8

Yup, they can do. Google Panosteitis (not to scare you!) Also bear in mind if he was desexed early, this can lead to late / slow closure of the growth plates causing him to grow taller (because the bones keep growing) than what he may have done if he was entire. Sometimes diet can influence it too - if your calcium ratio far exceeds your phosphorous etc. You should probably just take him to the Vet for a check up and voice your concerns.

Thanks for that, good luck going through your grades :) Yup I just rocked up with my form filled out and said I wanted to do agility! Normally (from my understanding) you can be assessed on the day but the assessor was substituting for a class so we went back the following week, passed no drama and did a social class at 9.30 :)

Just a little FYI update - we were assessed at Croydon today and passed the level of obedience required (basic 2.. not sure if that just interprets as level 2) so were able to put our name down for the next class starting in a few weeks. Simple as that! So we'll do a social class until the agility starts up. So what seemed like "the impossible" was really quite easy. I guess where it's not easy is the specialist clubs. For me "Foundation" = Agility, so not fussed at all about having to do our ground work first. Thanks everyone for your input! Certainly took away a lot of my uncertainty and feeling inferior.

Hats off to you for such an even litter though. Better a hard time choosing than a litter of extremes! Good luck

Hehe, that's what I'm hanging my hat on... that if we get let in there will be an immediate place because people aren't turning up! Yes you would get into agility at Croydon if you already had titles. Same as if you had your CCD etc. You would most likely be asked to do the foundation and equipment courses rather than going straight into the trial class, unless you had been going to all the Greg D sessions. The obedience standard to pass the Basic obedience test is below CCD btw. It sounds heaps easier to pass the walk-in assessment than to pass the Basic obedience test though which is a little unfair. The problem is you need to train to get a title! Lol And round and round it goes. Jules I'm actually going to continue with the Obedience now (knowing that I have a carrot to offer her with the agility - now we look like we might get in) and aim for getting our CCD.

I can't come as I will be at the Royal in Adelaide. Is anyone planning to make a DVD from her seminar and have it available for purchase? Thanks

Well Croydon was a surprise! I asked to do agility and was handed a score sheet, of which we could tick every box, so she said we would be assessed next week (as the instructor was already busy) and if we passed we could go into a class as soon as there was a spot available - which fingers crossed won't be too long by the sounds of it. I might have to hang out in an obedience class while waiting but that's ok - who knows might succumb to the desire for letters on a pedigree and go for that CCD after all! AND I got to meet some pretty special Poodles and made to feel like I was really welcome... THANK YOU!!! Even got some awesome tips and looks like I am going to give in (despite my stubbornness) and have a crack at clicker training, just to make sure we blow some socks off next weekend. So thank you DOL people :) It's pretty nice to know you can always find help somewhere if you ask. Thanks Tollers but there is not much chance you will see me doing flyball these days!! We were asking for my OH's kelpie x collie crossbred dog, who would do very well at it. Then again maybe one day I might think about it...... but probably not! Lol I want to do tracking and herding as well and there is only so much time in a life.

Ok yes I see what you mean, I intend on learning the system that I'm told! Ha! I'm a bit of one for getting in or choosing a club (depending on what the situation is) and sticking with it. Nice to hear that Croydon was so accommodating, will definitely go see them tomorrow. They are my closest club so of course my first preference despite me having to compromise Sunday shows for training etc. I don't have any issue with having to display a level of obedience but I don't want to have to do a CCD trial to prove it, or be UDX to be considered. A sit stay and a heel is no drama. I just assume Croydon is an elite style club - I know their flyballers are very good. We watched them training once and went to ask about how to get involved.... well it was like Pretty woman when Julia Roberts walked in to that high end store to buy a dress in her "poor mans" clothes ...!! Lol Finding Geraldine has been a big boost, and seeing her FB status tonight of all her students getting titles is nice to know it could be us one day :) Good luck with your own training!

Thank you. I've heard a mixed bag about Croydon but I will go down tomorrow and suss it out, see what they say. Megan I think perhaps your perspective is too close to the "inside". I understand there are a lot of clubs who train but the resources available to those trying to get in a few and the waits are long. There is no way I can choose what "method" is best until we start training for agility and see how she responds to it - if she doesn't respond well with what I do first then maybe I should consider changing it up, but there is no way as a complete novice someone could confidently make this decision. I do understand the need for a certain level of obedience. I consider myself lucky that my dog was born obedient, and naturally wants to please (a nice big tick for the WSSD!)

I understand the risk involved in aprivate business starting classes from scratch - with finding instructors / cost / etc - what gets me is that the existing clubs don't attempt to expand their own offerings or amount of classes to accomodate for the obviously large demand. Actually what gets me the most is having to be elite at a sport before being considered good enough to train. There is an attitude that is expressed with this which leaves a whole lot of people feeling like Bundyburger - and surely it is not good for the world of dog sport or purebred dogs. Which would lead me to think that maybe there is an area of Dogs Vic which should be dealing with this also? Anyway - Bundyburger I don't know where you live or how far you are happy to drive but Geraldine who Tollers mentioned offers private lessons at $25 an hour which seems pretty good to me! I am still waiting to hear from Action Dogs but seeing as I had to scratch this weekends shows I will go down to Croydon tomorrow and see what the deal is there.

Congrats on your amazing score Are we allowed to turn this into a brag thread? Hehe! I just tested my import boy (who is also newly an Aus Champ) and he go HD 1:2 and ED 0 There's no nicer feeling of relief in the world!