rep628

Bump, bumpy, bumpbump

Want a lift Dju? I'm going for a bit of a road trip tomorrow. I only have demands for constant pee/McCafe breaks. Oh yeah, and bump, bump, Bump, BUMP as Sandgrubber would say.

Can we confirm this is on an ADBA Letterhead, should an individual require this for court/legal issues? Excellent to get correspondence from them!

This wont work. It was used last time and failed dismally. I can post pictures of people swimming with great whites and patting tigers but it won't convince a lot of folk that the animals are "safe". The MOMENT you get drawn into an argument about what breeds are safe and what breed aren't you've lost. The only way ahead IMO is to talk about what makes DOGS safe and what doesn't. The emphasis has to be on education to socialise, train, desex and contain ALL dogs. That has to be coupled with effective laws to deal with dangerous dogs - which we have alreadly. Move away from that theme to talk about breeds and you play right into the hands of the BSL proponents. Yep but I think it needs one more thing we havent tried yet. Which is what Steve?

Pretty much. BUT the worrying part is when you read this (Domestic Animals ACt 1994): Domestic Animals Act 1994 - SECT 98A PART 7E IDENTIFICATION OF RESTRICTED BREED DOGS Power of authorised officers to make declarations as to breed of dogs 98A. Power of authorised officers to make declarations as to breed of dogs (1) If an authorised officer is of the opinion that a dog is a restricted breed dog, the authorised officer may make a declaration to the effect that the dog is a restricted breed dog. That's how they could get crosses....'looks like a pit to me'. Well, my head has just exploded.

Thanks GT! You're welcome to come nuzzle my boys ears any time. The actually feel rather neat. I mean, nothing quite like the velvety-ness of full, proper bully breed ears, but unique all the same. Great little message as well in original post. Kudos to whomever made it.

Way to go SM for digging around. You're being such a proactive trooper. PLEEEEEASE tell me you got that Teeth/Tail comment on record or at least the name of the person who said that. Invaluable for proving they are nothing but ignorant, amateurs on a Power Trip

One of the BEST comments on this thread +1,000,000,000. I was having a chat with someone today, we were trying to figure out how all this Aussie mumbo-jumbo works

I second that. If some gov't official came within 30 metres of thinking about sniffing out my dog for whatever reason, not only would I have my lawyers number on speed dial, but that dog would be tied to my hip. Useless excuses for human beings, I second that, Maxiewolf -with their amount of personal insecurities, it'll only be a few weeks before they need a new dog. I pity the breed they're moving onto (or going back to) next.

A dark, horrible day in Victoria. It's so ironic considering there is the Getting To Zero Conference on at the Gold Coast this week. May Graeme Smith follow the same path as Tom Skeldon of Ohio - he is a blight to the Animal Welfare Industry. My thoughts tonight are with all the animals and families that are affected by such a barbaric law in this country.

so agree. So how do we do It, It certainly would make a big Impact And It will certainly put the media as a whole to the test Maybe each of us should call our local papers in the next few days asking they print this article. If so, we buy the paper that day or visit their online sponsors. If 40 of us DOLer's did that with one newspaper, others would soon take notice - Heck with the 2000 odd people on the various Facebook anti-BSL sites at the moment.. that's A LOT of hits for their advertisers. And ultimately that's what drives the headlines. Even if a few of us called this newspapers, asking them to put the article online, they would if enough of us asked. Then we link it to Facebook/Twitter. Whoosh, it will grab other media outlets attention.

Sending more good vibes your way & a little prayer to the Liver/Kidney gods. She sounds like an absolute rock star of a dog

Another article to use is the recent one (I think Snook posted that one as well a few pages back in this thread..?) in regards to Brisbane dog bites - on the rise. As a city/region with some of the strictist companion animal laws, that article needs to be broadcasted far & wide. What they're doing is NOT working, BCC is failing public safety.

There must be more Urban myths about Fila than any other breed out there. I never had a problem with mine on or of the property. Guess why , because i raised and socialized them like a normal Dog . Didn't keep them hidden away from strangers when pups like a lot of Brazilians do. I've never met a Fila (would LOOVE to though), but the same can be said for the Presa Canario's - met quite a few back in Canada. Unbelievable dogs - absolutely lovely, even the a rescue one I met from a cruelty case. I wouldn't walk right up to a strange one and throw my arms around them in a hug like I would with a pit bull, but they were always happy to hang out with me and let me share there couch. It's such a shame that people like Cosmolo will not get to experience dogs like these down in Australia, they're fantastic working breeds - but again, a heavy emphasis on Working.

Ditto! Can I third that? You were great!

Exactly, and at this point in the legislation (or at least, what I have read), they have made NO attempt to make the punishments more steep for the irresponsible owners of ANY dog. Again, the ignorant public feels like enough has been done. Again, there will be a fatal attack in the future because of the lack of effective, breed neutral legislation. Poor Ayen's family - this arse hat of an owner is going to get away with this. They will get a slap on the wrist and go and buy another dog - except it'll probably be a big and shaggy thing (Great Pyr X, etc etc) since anything remotely short haired & Molosser-like in type without pedigree will be dead in Vic !!!!! It truly makes me ill, her death has been in vain.

It does say over 20kg though, thats big for a PB SBT? ETA big not bit. You haven't seen some of the papered English Staffys I've seen here in QLD. Or for that matter, the behemoth, pedigreed Amstaffs here. My Amstaff male is a delicious 25kg, 19.5 inch thing. If it wasn't for his cropped ears, the dogs here would make him look little and harmless like a Frenchie PB sizes range in North America from anything between 35lbs (16kg-ish) up to 80lbs (35kg-ish), or god forbid 100+lbs - depends on the line and style. Anyways, if dogmen in N. America want smaller dogs, they just use SBT in the ring or add SBT to the line to downsize, Just ask Michael Vick

The anonymous hotline is a worry as anyone with a grudge would be sure to use it. Saw it on Sunrise this morning. Victoria is doomed - they're voting on it today, and there has clearly been no mass cry for individuals to contact their local MP's over the last fortnight - hmmmmm. Tapferhound - that would have been a start. The thing is, this is what happened in SE QLD, people still manage to evade the laws, and your taxpaying money will go to councils trying to uphold such a law - costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just as worrying is, "Federal Justice Minister Brendan O'Connor plans to raise with his state counterparts the prospect of national laws on dangerous dogs." Great, I was just starting to like this country. And I contine to bash my head, where is the punishment for the tw@t that hid in their house while that poor girl died?!?!???? As it's occurred elsewhere in the world, there will be another death by dog attack in Victoria because of their failure to see the forest for the trees.. The Godwin move is a bold statement - but it's all a part of the similar mindset.

I have the sincerest feeling this has just spiralled out of our control. This feels just like Ontario, Canada with their Attorney-General. All experts (including our national kennel club), screamed, "STOP". The government didn't listen. 6 years later, countless dogs of all breeds are dead, and they're tabling to repeal the law (thank goD). It's the creepiest feeling of Deja Vu. I want to be positive because this article didn't scream Pit Bull every 2 sentences, but I think Sheridan is right - the ACT will fall. Australia has truly fallen into a dark, dark hole. More people will die because of the government's foolishness & blind ignorance

When I was with a group of people that rallied against BSL back in Canada - we went straight to the government officials. It worked, I can go back and live in one of my favourite cities in Canada if I so desire with any breed of dog on this good earth. So I might ask, or this might be a better post in a new topic. What are each of us doing this weekend to deal with this? We're all quite willing to get on here and share our saddness, our frustration, and tit-for-tats to the rare few that can't see the forest for the trees (hey, my previous post was no different). But are we using the same keystrokes to write to our local government? What about a phone call to our local vet to make sure their beliefs are in line with ours and if not, guess where our money is moving to? Have we wrote letters of support to those who are asking for reason (Charlie of the 7 PM Project, the AVA, RSPCA Vic Shelter Manager), or as someone mentioned earlier, maybe even a note to the family from all of us here at DOL? Lo Pan, if you only had time tomorrow, who would your "Top Down" letter be to? I'll make it my goal tomorrow. You make mention, the email will be in my "Sent" folder. And now it's off to bed for me, just did a very late shift of emergency, I think the witching (or is it b!tc&ing?) hour has caught up with me..

TD, the fact the society fears something doesn't mean that fear has any basis in fact. I wish folk could see that their belief is being manipulated by politicians and the media for their own agendas and for the most part with no real reason for that fear. I get that people are worried about large powerful dogs and their potential to kill. I share that concern. I wish folk would read past the headlines and hysteria and actually educate themselves about what makes a killer dog. The research is out there, the books are out there and the fact that most people with real knowledge of dogs and dog aggression don't support BSL should be telling you that something's smelly about the BSL solution. Which part of "banning dogs breeds doesn't stop dog attacks" are people failing to grasp??? People like Mathew and others who dont have a fundamental understanding of dogs dont realise how easy it is to make a maneater.They can remove all pitbulls tomorrow and using dogs that are already here and legal you can breed another type of dog in a very short space of time.One that is more human aggressive ,larger and more dangerous.It is not that hard and not that hard to turn them nasty.Armed with that knowledge which end of the leash should you target? If a meth head can make a batch of meth under his kitchen sink with limited knowledge and basic ingredients it proves you dont need to be a chemist.Dog breeding is the same its not rocket science. Wow, sheer lunacy! If we believed you, every Police Dog Squad member and security guard dog unit would be suffering numerous injuries caused by their dogs. The fact that they don't is because the breeds selected are those which can be trained to restrain their aggressiveness and to attack only when commanded. The pitbull that killed the little girl that is the subject of this topic could not be stopped no matter what. I've ignored your uninformed diatribe til now, but your comment on Police Dog Squad members has gotten to me. Have you ever been involved in a Sporting Dog Club? I am. Or know personally members of the Police Dog Units/Military Dog Units. I do. Have you ever seen the amount of times dogs get overaroused and "miss"? I have. Have you heard or even chuckled at the jokes about how cheeky their OWN dogs are for biting them - be it because the dogs have redirected for being corrected too hard, how "that one loves her some skin", or missing the tug toy. I have. Do you have ANY concept of what they look for in these dogs, and what they cultivate from pups as young as 3-4 months? Or that some of the commands that set these dogs into actions are the own dogs' ability to read/understand human body language? Somehow, I don't think you do. The cross breed dog that you are speculating on was clearly not subject to the intense pain/training/correction the vast majority police/military/working dogs experience when on the field in order for them to be able to do their job. And then you fail to account for the high failure/burn out rate of these animals. Not saying this could/could not have stopped that dog. And hey, I'm not even a training director, or have my Amstaff title in a Schutzhund obedience/tracking title yet. I'm just very, very fortunate to be in the midst of some really switched on people, participate & have a pretty keen ability to observe. "Restrain their aggressiveness".. You have no clue.

The 7 PM Project just had a decent spiel in regards to the attack. It was not their first headline (Melbourne shooting with 2 deaths was). Had the CEO from Lort Smith on who denounced BSL - it's the owners, was for tougher penalties for the irresponsible owner . David Hughes and Charlie Pickering were practically male versions of PoodleFan My only beef was their little map of Pit Bull type attacks in the last decade could have been left on the cutting room floor. Their article online seems tactful as well.. even if the title isn't the best- http://7pmproject.com.au/fatal-attack-renews-dog-ban-calls.htm They'll be getting a letter of thanks, in particular David and Charlie.

I can tell you for a fact that it pales into insignificance compared with deaths and injuries caused by bicycles. Lets ban those too shall we? ;) Gee, great analogy! Difference is, most bicycles kill their owners (ie the rider), not other people. For the record, I don't agree with banning a breed either as the dickhead owners (who are the fault) will just move onto another breed. However, if the responsible owners here are to save their breed, they need to recognise there is a problem with ownership, get better spokespeople in the media and work with authorities to find a solution, not get on the defensive every time there is an attack. Hi Bindo I have a female bully breed who outgoing & safe, obedient, is a puppy preschool tutor/regulator, an AVA Pet Pep dog, a Certified Therapy dog in hospitals and nursing homes who now has been greenlighted to be assessed as a Children's Reading Program Dog. How do you propose I become a spokesperson? Because here's my problem, the moment I step up and broadcast what she (possibly**) is as a breed of dog, in some states she will be outright stripped from me and killed; others, muzzled in public. Now can you really imagine a Certified Therapy Dog laying next to a child at the childrens hospital in a muzzle? No, so I quietly plod through my little circle of nursing homes, hospitals and primary school halls. I am a responsible owner, and every day my dogs change minds. Be it the old school Lab breeder at one of the nursing homes I visit who now thinks the world of females and fully admits that those "staffy types can actually be alright", or the rather bogany tradie who walks up with admiration in his eyes to my Big Daddy Version of an Amstaff (cropped ears and all) - totally in love with his look (hey, do you breed your dog?) and super impressed with his loose lead walking & obedience skills. As a vet nurse and dog trainer, I can then quietly stress that my male's desexed and the importance of training & socialization - with the added note that if they don't do either of those things, they're a disservice to humanity and their dogs. For some reason, coming from a 51kg chick with a good looking dog makes them "get it". That's the thing, they often listen to me, I come at them as one of them, not an lab/poodle/whatever breeder who is marginalizing them. Anti-BSL people have spokespeople; the AVA (& other int'l bodies), the RSPCA(ditto), and every major kennel club in the world - with the exception of ANKC (but I'm not pointing the finger at any individual member of course) have all made outright statements as to BSL not being a viable solution. But again, why should politicians listen to science and the experts, it's all about media spin. I'm legitamitely asking you Bindo - without defense, without sarcasm. If you were in my position, what would you do? **My female dog is a rescue, so we don't really know exactly what she is. I know her mother, and the kennel she came from, but we don't know sire.. and what good is that supposed to do you in this country?

Sorry everyone, I've been busy taking my bully breed to Pet Therapy (that was interesting, not the easiest thing to do after a dog related fatality), and been busy supervising a little 7 week Staffy Cross foster pup (maybe? Probably? Don't know, it's a stray) play with my 7 month old Greyhound and my two other Bullys. If I wasn't a responsible owner, I'd let the Greyhound unleash on the pup, maybe that'll change some headlines...? No? Too early. Sorry, getting naughty. I'll go back to crate training the Staffy Cross pup, maybe do a time out in there with her. Such a little nugget, she sure is loving it, some home will be so lucky to have her. Anyways, PoodleFan - you're a legend. You just got a Canadian using Aussie lingo, but really, there is no way else to sum up your steely, accurate, constant responses. It also made me reflect on a very recent post by Donna Reynolds from BAD RAP - "Following any dog-related tragedy, the formula response from opportunistic politicians and media types on a sky-is-falling mission is exhausting. Intelligent people don't want to be manipulated into fear though; they want to be informed." Thank you for being an intelligent person. On another note, just read from ABC news online they're now saying the dog was a pit/mastiff cross. Hmmm, did I not just caution before about American Bulldogs or Bull Arabs? Not that we can verify it's any of those, and the media has done irreparable damage. People saw a square blocky head and short fur, with a longer tapered tail - it's gotta be PB. But clearly this person was not going to be deterred from owning a large, powerful dog. The only thing that could have stopped this person from owning this dog was tougher legislation against the owner, he/she would have likely thought "it's not worth jail time" when it first growled at a child through the fence.

Great solution - so then what will we do when the former pitbull owners get a new breed or cross-breed and that attacks a person because of their inability to responsibly control or own the animal? I'm sure the victims of that attack will be very grateful that the pitbull was banned for ownership and nothing was done to ensure people are responsible about dog ownership. What is proactive is making sure that idiots who are unable to be responsible with dogs are not allowed to have them. The licencing/registration of owners makes a lot of sense to me, even moreso than dog registration. You know, when I saw my first Bull Arab dog here Down Under, I honestly went "What the hell is that thing? And they honestly think Pit Bull types are the problem? Hang head and sigh". Why? They're HUGE and with a natural aloofness to humans with a predatory instinct. They make a 20 kg pit bull type dog look, well, midget. And I'm not being breedist either, read next paragraph please. We have this problem with American Bulldogs in North America. Virtually non-existent 20 years ago, now they are becoming more routine in dog attack headlines. Why? (Everyone, get your Syl Stallone hats on) Because morons realized that if a pit bull type dog didn't "Do It for ya." there are always, bigger, badder dogs that aren't regulated. Oh wait, you have them down here too. And more often that not owned by people that just appreciate one aspect of the breed (their gorgeous size, their natural guarding ability). But responsible ownership of any breed makes a life or death difference. Just ask the owners of babies/toddlers fatally mauled by a JRT and Pom X in North America. It's an ugly, hairy snowball issue.