Well I get totally confused My Girl is a Kelpie X Mum was a Border Collie Lab and my guess her father was a working kelpie some were in the vicinity. Lets say she is a solid tall kelpie with border collie ears and long hackle hairs. I have been told she is crossed with German Sheppard or Rottweiler mainly because she is black and tan and her solidness. When I say maybe she threw back to the Lab I then get she's a bit big for a Lab I have seen some big labs in my time I thought she was small side of a lab (I know that is where she gets her appetite). She also has that neurotic Kelpie drive. In the end It doesn't matter I her!! And for all those out there with their untrainable breeds has anyone told the dogs that yet !!! What they might not be good in some areas may excel in others!!!!