Double Lab Love

Thank you DJU - I have attached a photo of the poor love.. AND it was his birthday yesterday too

So upset this morning...... Some of you may have read my reponses to the Pet Insurance thread of last week - I have two 18 mmth Labs and was weighing up insurance - mind you have been thinking of doing something for months just got lost in the fine print... SO - last Friday I notice Tango limping slighty left hind leg at breakfast time - I have a good look at this leg/paw pad and everything seems fine and 5 min later he is walking soundly again... Friday night fine then and out of the blue he is holding his left leg up and hopping around - another thorough check of the leg / paw pad again all fine and again he is walking normally for the rest of the night... Fine all day Sat and he is hanging around with Tippi with no probs - so we think might take them to the local dog park for an hour to run of some steam.... two minutes into the park he is favouring his left hind leg again so we bundle them up take him home and he is 100% fine again when we get out of the car... BUT early Sun morning he had vomited twice and looks a but shaky in the back legs - so we rush him to the vets thinking parylsis tick etc.... But after a thorough exam it turns out no tick but he has a luxating patella and will need to see a specialist Not thinking it was something that happended to larger dogs and not knowing anything about it I am gobsmacked / feel sick that I didn't see it sooner and wracking my brains trying to think how the hell it happended.... he has regularly been seeing a chiro and there has been no evidence of it so i am thinging some kind of trauma ??? So we booked in for first available appointment this morning which unfortunately is next Tuesday He is booked in for a full consult / xrays and they have reserved a space for him for surgery that afternoon if required... So I guess re insurance you really never know what is around the corner..... we will find the money for the operation and post care from somewhere as a priority and happy to go without something else - but I guess it would have been helpful if I had of been insured a couple of months ago or even had a slush fund set up .... which I think now will be our priority.... Not having even considered a luxating patella as potential Lab injury I haven't as yet ( or ever done any ) research and was wondering if anyonee has been thru it and what tips/advice you may have... Also am I to keep him quiet for the next week before his consult / can I give him gentle walks bearing in mind he will be out of action for 6 weeks after surgery.... I really don't know what to do and I still have a week He doesn't seem to be in pain but labs are very stoic so it always hard to tell... Thanking in advance... Sorry about grammer/spelling.... lack of...still but upset

Thank you for all your responses - very much appreciated and I have taken notes of all your suggestions... I swim them in summer for over half an hour and walk them 6-7 kms when I get home from work now in the cooler months - lots of hills and power walking...weekends we do a bushwalk for a couple of hours one day and the local dog park for an hour or so as well the other day ...plus Tippi does 3-4 kms gentle walking on the treadmill most days at day care... we have tired puppies most nites I have stepped up their excercise regime over the last few months...seeing results and to be honest Tango doesn't really need to lose weight... but I need to get them leaner as advised as not to put excess weights on their joints... I would like them as lean as your Mindy aussielover she looks fabulous.... BUT poor Tippi As you said kirst_goldens she just has to smell food and I am sure she puts weight on... I have never really fed her that much from being a small puppy but as the chiro said the is a "good doer" so obviously has a much slower metabolism.... I do prefer feeding raw so will definitly go that way... I am off to purhase a chest freezer this weekend so can stock up on RMB / chicken carcasses / roo mince and roo tails... Now if i had room for a vege garden and pumpkin patch I would be well sorted :D Aussielover - Tango has a duck tug toy that he LOVES.... I have to hide it from him though after we train bc he is SUCH a chewer Tippi - I haven't really found what her motivation is - other than food ! She is such a clever dog though and I secretly thinks she gets a buzz out of being rewarded for learning something new so quickly... Nekhbet thank you for that link i have just had a look - that is a great site and I think could solve my problem... The weight loss forumla product looks like it has everything in it and would be more convenient - especially during the work week when time is at a premium.. Looks like Sydney Pet Foods stock and deliver - I know what my new chest freezer will now be full of :D Thank you again for all your advice/replies... DDL Kirst_goldens might try and take some piccies on the weekend - I can do before and after shots :D

I'm with Petplan too, on the 'Standard' plan. Unfortunately my boxer pup was treated for diarrhoea (spelling?) at 9 weeks caused by coccidia. I was honest (foolish?) and disclosed this. Rather than paying a higher premium and being covered, Petplan have excluded any gastro-intestinal treatment for 24 months. After that, I can ask for that to be reviewed. Pity really, as he seems to have a sensitive stomach. Even if my dog were to swallow an object that needed surgical removal, that would be considered GI and it wouldn't be covered. I'm happy to have the insurance (you never know, he could need expensive treatment for something else!) I did seriously consider just setting aside the money I would have spent on premiums as a 'fighting fund' too. I just don't trust myself to be that disciplined! Petplan are underwritten by Allianz. I think most of the others are underwritten by Hollard. The small print is mind boggling! Good luck in your decision-making. An anonymous phone call to a few insurers to ask a few questions might be worthwhile. Trinabean the small print is a minefield in itself Sometimes when you try and do the right thing it comes back to bite you - esp in your case if your pup is prone to tummy issues.... I would be no good putting money aside either - it would find it's way to something new for the two spoilt brats that they just "had to have"....I am hopeless....so I think insurance is the way to go for me anyway... I have looked at about 6-7 websites and I can see that they must be underwritten by the same insurer as they all seem quite similiar but then all have different covers/fine print etc.... costs vary slightly though too I don't remember my health insurance being so complicated :D But then again I have come to the conclusion that my two are treated far superior and eat way better than my husband and me for that matter - mind you not that he cares he would say the same thing about me As they are on specialised diets for weight loss - they get specially coooked meals/veges and supplements and when it comes to our dinner - its rice cakes and freezer foraging But i digress.... I think I might take Fatsofatsoman's advice and go with Pet Plan.... Re disclosure at the end of the day nothing has been diagnosed and the xrays have been suggested as a precuation in case there are problems later...gut feeling says there will be but I am sure that is not classed as a medical term ! Worse case scenario we will pay outright if it becomes an issue down the track but as we were definitly going to take out insurance anyway we may as well do it prior and see how we go... Of course if I had of taken out insurance 6 months ago when I meant to I wouldn't be having this dilemma now

Thank you so much ! I have been looking for something for a site like that for ages - alot of places don't deliver to the blue mountains.. Very excited as most of the butchers around here don't specialise and can get quite pricey.. Very happy :D

just had a quick read of the product disclosure again and xrays are covered and are classed as vetenary treatment - there is a clause that says they wont pay any claims on an injury that has had clinical signs that it was going to happen before you started the cover. I'm not sure whether your chiro telling you that you are in for some hip problems counts as clinical signs - I would assume it possibly would, if you chiro has noted it down on any file he has kept for your pup. If this is the case you will have to disclose it when applying - that way your monthly premium may be a little bit more each month but at least you're covered - i'd have a chat with your chiro first as if you pup is real young and it was basically just a word in your ear I probably wouldn't disclose it - then start going to another chiro - but I'm probably a bit dodgy like that. Another clause is that your dogs have to be vaccinated and have a yearly dental check up. hope this helps a little. Fatsoman - u must have read my mind !! I was trying to work out a way of not having to disclose the fact that I know that there could be issues down the track.. The chiro has said there could be and as far as I know it has just been a discussion btw him and us and I have not had this discussion at all with my vet.... The chiro has suggested that xrays around 18mnths - 2 years of age due to them being Labs... we are happy to do that with/without insurance but it would be helpful for the hip pocket ( since we are going to take out insurance anyway) if we were already covered prior to doing it :D It's such a grey area isn't it.... Perhaps if the say so re xrays comes FROM my vet AFTER we are covered then it could be alright - just won't mention the chiro - after all nothing is definite until AFTER the xrays... re problems/treatment needed... Oops.. now i sound a bit dodgy... Thank you so much for looking into the product disclosure re xrays for me... that was very kind of you...

Thank you ReadySetGo..... appreciate your response... I had not thought of roo tail - hell of a lot better for them than a dental stick I would imagine ! Might start going just with the raw mince or raw beef with veges as you suggested and ditch the stew... Probably will spread over two small meals though as being Labs I have a paranoia about bloat...and my boy is a nervy sort of dog AND a scoffer... Is roo tail easily found ?? I am in the lower blue mountains - I am happy to order online if anyone has a good website...

We plumped for the standard plan - I just didn't see the need to go up to Premium as the only difference between it and standard is money if your dog dies due to illness (as in a refund of purchase price) last thing I'd care about if my dog died, and $4000 a year more - $18k instead of $14k - I'm hoping I won't need to ever use more than $14k a year on Boonie. We pay $49 a month and have a fixed excess of $100.00 for any claims. thought I'd better clarify - standard plan is the middle plan - the first plan is $100 excess plus a % of resulting fees - too much of a risk. Thank you so much Fatsoman.... very much appreciated...it has cleared up a few of my questions... I have had a look at their website and again got a bit confused re the different plans /excess... the fine print does your head in... or maybe it is just me being thick I think you are spot on re the cover you have gone for and I did note the only difference re the death due to illness refund and like you it would be the last thing i would be thinking about...or even care about... The excess of 100.00 is what i was looking at doing too... I just want to make sure that I am covered for Xrays in particular as I know that I am headed in that direction down the track... plus more unfortunately Thanks again...

I was hoping that I might be able to ask for some assistance on the current diet of my two Labs. On the advice of my Lab's chiro (potential future joint issues) I have been told that I need to take 3-4 kilo's off my girl and 2-3 kilos off my boy. I need them to be as lean as possible so my chiro has advised to cut out their kibble completely and he will reasses in a month's time re their progress. As I have always fed a mixture of raw and dry so I am a bit concerned that they may be missing out on minerals/vitamins etc by cutting out the kibble completley. I had them on RC Lab for Tango and the RC low fat version for Tippi - they were only getting a 1/12 and 1 cup a day resepectively prior. So now they have a chicken carcasso OR 2 -3 chicken necks OR a turkey neck in the morning and at night have a small amount of cooked beef ( we make a big pot of veg/beef stew for them every 2 weeks or so ) or raw mince with lots of mashed pumpkin and every other low carb vege known to man with a bit of chicken stock. I also give them a tab of flaxseed oil ( health food store but the brand is specially for animals ) and the recommended scoop daily of Petark Joint Care... The chiro has advised against any glucosomine products until they are over 2 yrs - they are 18 mnths... The Joint care does have some other minerals etc in it... They also have a dental stick daily and no treats now with training - except for the non food kind !!! Kisses and cuddles Which for Labs I am sure is no compensation for food !! Also once a week the beef is replaced with tuna or eggs... I would be greatful for any advice on the above... Do I need to add vit/mineral supplement / fish oil ???? Does anyone have other suggestions for what I could add etc... Should I be doing something differently ?? Many thanks in advance...I don't what i would do without DOL... DDL

The very question that I was hoping someone would post as I need to insure my two and have gotten bogged down in all the different websites and plans... all gets a tad confusing... I like the look of Pet Plan Australia.....Fatsofatsoman I know you have the gorgeous Lab boy Boonie and as I have also two Labs I would value your opinion on which level of cover to use bearing in mind the issues Labs can have .... Unfortunately Tippi's chiro has indicated that she may have hip issues in the future so I really need to get a good cover in place for both of them now... Thanks in advance... DDL Ps Off topic but re your chewbacca post - that's Tippi - I think Tango would sound like Teddy Bear if he could talk - bless him :D

Done

I am just predjudiced at owners with off lead dogs in an on lead area... Sooooo many lately Or off lead dogs in their unfenced front yards with no owners in sight.... I work hard to keep my two onlead Labs under control and focused on me - as my female is a little DA - trying to control two in this situation - no easy feat - while an offlead dog - whatever the breed - jumps around and wants to play / yaps / growl is not much fun. Thank goodness we have never been rushed at or been in a situation where we have could have been attacked - not too sure how I would cope to be honest... I am predjudiced at the above people who make my daily walks a mindfield of avoiding certain houses / crossing roads to avoid off leash dogs / having to leave walking tracks/park bc dogs are off leash... the list goes on... I am also mindful of other dog walkers BC of walking two large Labs - so will cross the road or give way if others have smaller dogs or look like they have no idea of their dogs' body language / reaction...... I must say all of the above does not for a relaxed and pleasurable walk make Re staffies - my two play with the in laws staffy really well - they play rough but all respect the boundaries.... but they have grown up with each other and are the same age - so I guess different circumstances...

Hi mumtoshelley... Retrievers and their food :D Perhaps I have gone a bit overboard on food cutting back and upping the excercise? In addition to the half cup of Diet RC she also gets 3 -4 small chicken necks in the morning and her kibble at night with mashed pumpkin/veggies and usually some sort of raw ( small portion) be it roo mince/lamb/chicken pieces... Going by what others here feed their Labs I thought it was along the right guidelines ? I do know what you mean about trying to eat everthing in sight.... - silly OH left his new custom made shoes on top of their crates last night and came downstairs this morning to find both heels chewed off Not too sure who the culprit was but I have my suspicions it was a joint effort :D AND just when I thought we had finally moved on from that stage I am just paranoid about weight gain and stress on elbows/hips esp as they are both excercising alot more now.... I also love to swim them in warm weather ( their absolute favourite ) but due to the cold weather I have been walking them more instead. I like the idea of incorporating jumping too... Oakway - very intersting about your thories on kibble... hadn't thought of that but is does make sense... You only have to watch them after they had their dinner ( particularly as puppies) and the zoomies that resulted as a result of all that ingested energy...and then having to try and clam them down until everything had been digested... Many thanks for your replies and I will be keeping a very close eye on her this weekend to see how she goes.....

Thank you - I will definitly keep an eye on that as it could be a bug - although she is still scoffing her feed but then again she is a Lab My first thought too was a lack of energy but then as this is our third week I would have expected to see it earlier ? Although come to think of it she did have a couple of kilo's of extra fat to live off - and now that those are gone perhaps she is feeling a bit rundown... poor love she is probably sleeping more in order to dream of food I know when I have been cutting down on my food and exercising more you do feel a bit rundown/tired - i just didnt think it was something that dogs would experience....maybe as Tango is fine (no food reduction) that's what it could be... Could it be depression ? One of OH's friends has just told him that his Lab had something similiar and the vet told him it was a mild form of depression ??

Thank you for replying best4koda... All vaccs up to date / worming / heartworm etc...my vet thinks i am a worry wort as it is bc we always seem to be there for one thing or another - usually trivial but I am of the mind that it is better to be safe than very sorry... I have her on the diet Royal Canine ( sorry that it what I meant by lite) and trying to make her feel fuller with lots of pumpkin/veges and I always like to give in addition as much raw as I can.. Apparently they were a bit concerned yday at day care and woke her a couple of times but she wasn't interested in playing and went back to a sound sleep Less today but still more than is usual for her... she is a very busy and nosey doglet and likes to be involved in everything usually... Not listless at all and when not sleeping seems to be her usual self.... just a litle bit more sooky than normal... OH and I talked about it last night and we had a very busy weekend with a few late nights for us and them and my thoughts where that they didn't have alot of loafing time during the day and combined with all the walking and decreased food perhaps she was just tired ?? I am not too sure how many hours dogs need to sleep a day so perhaps she is a bit sleep deprived All a bit concering or perhaps I am just overeacting

I was hoping that I might be able to get some advice or verification that I am a massive worry wart I have two 17mnth old Labs - very active, happy and bouncy so I guess typical Labs.... Just a quick background... I have them in doggy day care a few days a week and i also walk them both when I get home for a min hour ( bushwalks for longer on the weekend) which pretty much means from after 8.00pm week nights I have two very quiet and tired Labs. The issue I have is with my female Tippi... I was advised by my vet that she needs to lose 2-3 kgs so have cut back her RC Lite dry food to 1/2 cup a day and have also been supplementing with raw - chicken frames/necks/barf patties - depending on what's on hand - with lots of mashed pumpkin / veges etc and upped her excercise... this has been going on for the last few weeks and i am starting to see good results BUT for the last two days at day care I have been told she has basically slept from 6.30am till about 2pm yesterday and till about midday today - this is from a Lab that loves to play/walk/socialise and who has also been getting a good 7 hours a night. Tango has been fine and has been his normal self with no nanna naps at all.... even my wonderful day care lady said it is out of character for Tippi to sleep like this.. Other than that she was fine when I picked her up last night - happily went for her hour walk / scoffed her food - bounced around and happily went to bed.... I did notice though she was just a tad more clingy than usual... Happy and bouncy this morning as well when I dropped her off at day care.... My question is - is she just tired / not getting enough sleep / lacking energy or could it be something else ? Any advise / suggestions greatly appreciated... Oh BTW was at the vet for her annual check up 3 weeks ago and the vet was very happy with her progress - except for the 3 kgs ;)

SecretKei, Excellent advice.... My other down the track fear is the growing old /losing them together - I get emotional even just thinking about it .... But fingers crossed we still have teenage and many mature years together before that happens.... I was just reading the list you gave re puppy training etc it makes me exhausted just thinking about it again as we had everything x 2.... I think any age from about 2 ( maybe 3 for Labs ) is a good age to introduce a new dog / puppy to an exisiting dog/dogs - unless of course it is a totally unplanned rescue

As an owner of two 15mnth Labs which we got at 8 weeks ( I really don'tknow WHAT were we thinking ) I would NEVER go down that path again. They were bought together with the best of intentions but we really had no idea and when I look back know with the knowledge i have learnt from these forums I just shudder at our naviety. It was a very hard lesson to learn and we made quite a few mistakes along the way we were just very lucky that we had two very forgiving and basically good natured dogs that at times seemed to know more than we did ;) The biggest issue we have /had and are still working on is the fact that our female Tippi is the more dominant dog and due to our inexperience hogged out attention and poor Tango was at times left out at times and there has been an escalation of isses between the two of them as a result. We did see Steve K9 Pro when they were 6 months and he helped us with pack leader issues and her bossiness etc and things are alot better but i always wonder to myself what their personalities would have been like had we had just the one.. I guess we will never know... As far as bonding more with each other - they have bonded extremely well with us and although are great mates and play together - they often spend time apart and are quite happy with that. Thank goodness the bonding more with each other was not an issue we have had - although we have had plenty of others. Having two the same age re training etc wasn't the issue - but we also did have alot of proff help wth that - and they are great company for each other when we are at work etc so that part has been a positive. And who best to cope with Lab zoomies and boisterous play than another Lab of the same age They are now at the stage where they are settling down, I can walk them together and it is very enjoyable where as before they were just too distracted and hard to manage. We as owners are more aware and that has also helped to nip any issues in the bud. I fall a litttle more in love with them every day and sort of feel like that we are starting to reap the rewards of all our hard work earlier on... But to answer the OP's questions... I agree with waiting a while until training etc of Boonie is where you want it to be.... and it will be hard not to give a new Lab puppy extra attention to the detriment of the other - as we found out the hard way...even though all the best intentions are there... In our case we are looking to move to acreage this year but i would wait until our two are at least 4 before we brough another doglet home and it would be a rescue or older dog.. I feel like we need to dedicate ourselves 100% to them for a couple more years since we messed things up a bit when they were puppies - it's our penance Another puppy well that will be a long long way away when I don't work full time and can do things properly the second time round

I dont' think there's any training or entertainment come to think of it. The carer takes the dogs to the park then they come back to the house and stay in a room. Comparing what Linda provides makes my carer look like the budget package :D Unfortunately Penrith is a hike for me especially week days, but I would be interested in Linda's details as I'm always on the look out for good boarding facility when I go on hols. Hi Bark, Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you..... the negative about secretly being on the forum whilst at work I must admit I would be a bit concerned if my two didn't greet me enthusiastically and had been locked in a crate.... On one hand i can understand that if your dog is timid she would have ben overwhelmed by alot of dogs coming and going but I do think that is where it is important that dogs are seperated re age / playing styles etc... Linda doesn't have a huge amount of space but she uses it well and has penned off areas so I woud say there were about 4-5 different playing areas for the dogs hence I guess why she can seperate them. I guess it is hard to know wether the owner is in for profit or has the dog's best interest's at heart. Linda has her own 16mnth GSD and a new gorgeous 10 week old retreiver puppy and they are there every day so I like to think that she has all the dog's interests at heart. I think the video idea was a good one - maybe you can set up a doggy cam in a bone / stuffed toy and see see what really goes on Like the nanny diaries ! We have just been so very lucky with Linda - my OH and I are just so thankful we found her and she is relatively local to us.... I am just so sorry that it is out of your way. She really does all she does for love of dogs and that is so evident with her set up / care etc... Unfotunately she doesn't board - I wish she did bc other than my parents there is no one else I would trust to leave them with if we went on hols..... But her website is www.scoobydogs.com and it give a good run down on facilities etc.... My two are on the Scooby shots page

It is difficult to know but I guess the overall demeanor of your dog on approach and pick up and any changes in behaviour toward other dogs or change in temprement would be a clue - as others have said. My two go to day care several times a week and have been going for about 5 months.... I have found them overall to be better behaved ( as training is implemented daily ) have greatly improved socialisation skills and they are always very calm and relaxed when we get them home..... actually make that very tired from playing all day When we get there they are excited to get there - would jump all over the owner Linda if not asked to sit nicely for a pat and when we pick them they are super excited to see us but don't drag us out of the door to escape. Having also taken note of the other dgos there - they all seem relaxed and happy to see the other dogs arrive and I have never heard excessive barking or whining from dogs when we arrive or depart. I guess the other issue is what entertainment / training etc does the owner provide? Ours have a treadmill to excercise on (godsend for my tending to tubby female Lab), lots of toys to play with - dogs are socialised according to size/age and playing style and and supervised at all times. The owner is a trainer and behaviourist and has helped us implement training programes as well for on lead walking and general obedience issues. The owner Linda has been fantastic and has gone beyond the call of duty at times to help us out if we get stuck back at work etc... Happy to help if you need more info... We are in the lower blue mountains but we travel to Penrith to drop the Labbies off on the way to work in the city... not sure if you are around this location?

Hi Leelaa17 My two go to day care in Penrith - Scooby Dogs and they LOVE it..... love it Linda runs the day care and she is amazing..... they get so excited when we get there and come home happy and exhausted ! They have so many regular doggy friends they play with and are looked after extremely well - their socialisation skills were not so good initally (completely our fault) but have come on in leaps and bounds since starting with Linda. Dogs are seperated according to size/age etc and I never have any hesiations or fears about leaving them there. I too was initially of two minds re day care but as OH and i both work full time in the CBD and long hours it has been a good solution for us as our two young Labs - in spite of a big daily walk and nightly training - were destroying our back yard through boredom.... We had been to see Steve at K(Pro for a few issues and Linda helped us implement them during the day ( and we carried on at night / weekends) and the change in their behaviour has been fantastic. She has been a godsend... So it may not work for everyone but is certainly has for us..... I love knowing that while I am at work they are safe/being looked after and having the best time

To be perfectly honest it is near on impossible to completely snake proof any yard or fence, however there are things you can do to help reduce the likelyhood of it happening. You can buy snake and mouse mesh which snakes cannot get thorugh so I put that around the bottom of the fence. It is buried around 3 inches into sharp bluemetal rocks which I am told snakes do not really like to go on as they are not a natural rock, due to being man made, they have sharp edges and the snakes do not like going over them - not sure if it is true but I am using it anyway. I have rubber seals around the gates. My dog runs have snake mesh now to the roof after I squished and killed a tiger snake in the TOP of the door just above my head after I walked through it! I have also gone around with expanda foam on any of the gaps I could around the top of the bricks. I have had two larger snakes( a foot or two long) and a couple of baby ones in the dog runs in over 10 years. I have been told the only way to build anything remotely snkae proof is to have colour bond concreted at least 60cms into the ground(to stop mice etc digging holes underneath) 6 feet high and all gates in frames that shut tightly into angle iron frames. Have nothing near the fence a snake could climb, or overhanging such as trees. Thank u so much OSoSwift.... if it means putting in every snake precaution known to man I will... I had thought that to be the case that you can't proof 100%..... we are so excited about moving onto a 5 acre property ( only decided since we got the dogs !!) so they can have more room but the only downside is the snake issue..... Other than keeping them inside whilst we are at work.... which we could do now that I am thinking about it in the danger months as we have a large 3 car plus garage... I am right in thinking the worse months are from early summer - Nov to Jan? We already have a great run in place on the property which is a large circular shape and has very high hurricane fencing which we could put a tarp across for shade and padlock the gate for security whilst we are work - I will also look into using mesh proofing and bluemetal rocks ... But now I am thinking we may have to snake proof the top as well - especially after your tiger snake incident - OMG I would have died of shock. I hate hate hate snakes - I was hoping that the run fence was too high for them to climb - its about 8 metres high but I guess if they can climb trees OSoSwift do you know if those snake repellers work - the ones that send out vibrations through the ground as I was thinking of surrounding their fenced area and run with that... Thanks..... Sorry not 8 metres - 8 feet !!!

For those that live on rural I noticed that quite a few of you mentioned snake proof fencing.. We will be moving out rural in a few months and browns and red bellies are my biggest fear for my two dogs .... We will be organising to fence a couple of runs on the porperty but i would be very grateful if I could please have any advice on snake proofing mesh/fences before we buy the fencing or if there is a link to that topic. Also is worth buying the snake propellers as an extra precaution. Sorry to hijack... thanks in advance...

Thank you - I will check the link out...

Yes - that would be clumsy clod me after a few too many drinks - face planted in the pavers while the two doglets look on in hysterics