sidoney

Riley was there too. There was all so much happening that it's still sinking in but Riley said that the most amazing part for her was watching Xia turn from a dog that went out the gate to a dog that was very keen. She was in the little yard first and didn't like that at all (and went out the gate), so we went straight to a bigger yard and she went out the gate in the first minute or so, anyway a few things were done (eg. another dog brought in) to get her to realise that she could move the sheep and at some point there she realised that she could, and that was basically it - she had found her calling. Vickie said she has good natural distance and balance. And several people told me she is a "good dog". I expect I'll be too busy to get back there for another couple of months but that's OK. We've had a go and she likes it and she has the ability to be good at it. And I think that I'll be able to learn although it might take some time! That's enough for now.

Xia had her first go on sheep today. She is bred to be a good herding dog so it wasn't totally unexpected that she could do it. Early days yet of course but she's got everything she needs to be a sheep dog. She attracted quite a few positive comments. I find I am looking at her somewhat differently now. To realise that my little dawg, my little Kelpie, possesses such natural and effortless ability, is quite humbling. Vickie had her camera there so I expect she will post some pics when she is able to. BTW her new camera is ;) . I had a turn of it when Vickie was working Trim and I think I want to marry it. Or something.

Well the top and the bottom one leads in the pic just go on the dog, they are collar and lead in one, there is a sliding bit that allows the collar to get big enough to get on the dog, then you slide it along until the collar is nice and snug up behind the ears, at the top of the neck. Since the slider keeps the collar at that size, it won't slip down the neck. Most of your dog handling in the show ring is training anyway, you might use the lead to remind the dog to keep its head up a bit, although if the dog is strung up too high you won't get them moving through from behind so well. I really am not sure of how sibes are stacked, whether free stacked, or not, and if not, how it's presented. I have always spent most of my time in the gundog rings, and a bit in working dogs, terriers and toys. And not shown for a couple of years either. Sorry I can't give you more specifically sibe info!!

You keep it up by keeping a little pressure on it, but it's probably easier to get one of those martingale lead/collar all-in-ones that has the sliding bit to keep the lead snug. The one called "cord show lead" in the piccie has the same function but is probably a bit neater to look at ... that's the sort I've had. Although the ring may get caught in a longer coat? Dunno, I've never had a coated breed so no experience there. These kinds of leads come in a variety of colours and sizes. Depending perhaps on where you are located, if you go to an all breeds show there are usually some show equipment vans there with a good range of leads, and you can try them with your dog and see what works. The good thing about the nylon collars is that they won't cut the hair around the neck. If you have a coated dog. I don't have to worry about that!!! I had a look at the sibes on the breed pages on this site and they mostly seem to have chains, which could be the norm for your breed. But you don't lose a class because you have a slightly different collar. We managed to win Puppy of the Day at Sydney Royal one year with my slightly-wider nylon slip puppy lead (in appropriate colour). Oh and on the original topic of this thread ... I was with a group of people checking out some grounds last year (?) for a trial, and the club that is the main user of the grounds was training at the time ... pups in the puppy class had check chains on ... I was rather taken aback and I would never go and train there.

I've used various kinds of show leads and collars ... you need something that will stay at the top of the neck when gaiting, and that lends itself to stacking in whatever method your breed uses ... I go for short leads that tuck away but some go for longer ones and drape them behind the (handler's) neck. A shorter dog will need a longer lead (obvious really!). Dogs will gait with the lead up behind the ears, sometimes with a chain, handlers will have the slip part on the side of the neck and drape an ear (if a drop ear) over it, apparently can get more height that way, although if you put sideways pressure on the lead while gaiting you'll tend to get crabbing and leaning from the dog. When stacking, some will leave the lead up behind the ears, some will slip it loose around the shoulders ... depends on the breed, see what happens in your breed. Whatever it is, there will be a reason for it. And as you can see, the different ways of doing things will require different kinds of leads/collars. For a puppy I tend to use a slim nylon slip lead in an appropriate colour, and go finer when the dog is fully trained. Could be a fine chain, could be a fine martingale. I have a rather nice, very fine, round plait leather lead that is one of my faves.

There is also a difference in the use ... from my experience, you won't find show people giving their dogs much pressure on the chain, or jerking it, it's more of a fashion thing ... turn a show dog off the ring and you don't have a show dog.

Works for me. Looks good.

I have NEVER squeezed anal glands. Gawd I never wish to. I pull bits of grass out of bottoms often enough. Those pathetic faces, "muuuummmm it's FOLLOWING meeeeee!!!! Get it oooofffff!!"

Oo-er, LP, the mind boggles! Just as well I've had my dinner!

My experience is with pointing dogs and not herding dogs. A pointing dog will have a natural stop on a point of balance with the game. I am talking here about game that the dog and I can see, and that can see the dog. Hidden game is a little different. I have observed that the dog will stalk the game and stop at the point where it is as close as possible to the game but before causing the game to flee. Some dogs may need some help at this point (so as not to flush the game) but as it's a natural place to the dog to stop, it's easy, a whisper can do it. In fact a low voice is better so as to not break the concentration of the dog. The person can then come close to the dog, and the game will tend to stay put at the place it has taken, as it's watching the dog. The person can send the dog on to flush the game. This is based on my observations with my own dogs. I've not done "proper" gundog training. Some of my dogs are more able to find that point of balance than others. I think that there are parallels here with herding behaviours.

I can see that for looking at the face, food coming from the mouth is an improved "placement of reward". I clicker trained one of my dogs to look at my face - she was very aware of the hand though - would look away from the face on the click.

Your description of Zoe reminds me of Shaula when I started with her in agility - she had an obedience title. She still finds it harder to work at a distance, but is vastly improved. However I have done only agility with her since we started. I would imagine it's a matter of training them what to do in each. If Zoe's had more obedience training, then that might be showing. Plenty of dogs do very well in both. They would understand each activity and its requirements very well.

Some, not too much. You need the dog to respond but you also don't want the dog's attention glued onto you. It needs to be able to switch - look at you when you want it to - or preferably a quick glance, as a head check slows a dog down, and look at where it's going the rest of the time. You do want the dog paying attention to you when it is on a stay for the lead-out, but you also want it to be assessing the obstacles in between you and it. Mostly the dog will use its peripheral vision to watch the handler, and they can be very perceptive to your positioning and movement. If a dog is stuck too much on the handler it will crash into things. Usually this comes about when a novice lures the dog over obstacles. The dog follows the lure and learns very little about obstacles, or about responding to handler cues and movement. There are all sorts of foundation things you can do with your dog. Have you seen Greg Derrett's foundations video? If not, worth a look. So long as the handler gives the dog training in working away, with some independence, even dogs that start with too much handler focus tend to learn to look at where they are going. If only so that they don't run into things. Although you'd better hope they don't hurt themselves in the meantime. The opposite, a dog with too little handler focus, is probably numerically more common. You can recognise them by the speed with which they head away from their handlers to whatever is interesting them, and the desperation in the handler's voice as they try to call them back. I liken obedience to dressage. As the head down position in the horse gives a blind spot ahead, forcing the horse to listen to its rider for directions, so the head up position on the dog makes it more difficult to see where it's going and it really has to pay attention to the handler. With show jumping and cross country, the horse needs to look ahead at the obstacles, to see where it's going, to judge heights and distances, but the rider may bring the nose down between obstacles - more rider focus - in order to set a line or change speed or striding. In agility, the greatest skill is not getting over obstacles, it's handling the dog between them. On a straight or simple line you can basically let the dog be, but if you need a turn or a discrimination of some sort, you need the dog's attention between the obstacles. However you need to leave the dog alone to get over them once the dog has been set on its line. So many dropped bars are due to the handler in some way getting the dog's attention in the air, for example, the handler speaks, the dog head checks and stuffs its balance and drops a leg and down comes a bar. I have learned the hard way not to talk to my dogs when they are in the air.

That's right, the days of heeling around an agility course are long gone. Do you have a reliable recall with your dog? If you do, then you have a good basis from which to start agility. So an obedience Papillon isn't suitable for the spitting technique then?

It's pretty specialised. I reckon I'd do it if I did obedience, but doing agility, you want both handler and obstacle focus.

Very sorry to hear your sad news.

I found the standard Kong unchallenging for my dogs to empty. I have a couple of Kong Stuff-a-balls as well. Good for my dogs but probably not good for dogs that can chew up the black ones! I can basically stick all sorts of things in them.

Great stuff!!!

Tears from me ... I feel your sorrow. A beautiful girl.

We got it two days before a major show. Or was that one day? Straight to the vet (good vet, Karen Hedberg, many members here know her) and got some anti inflammatories. The anti inflams can help prevent damage of the spinal cord due to swelling - there is not much room inside there. The tail is not protected by muscle in the way that the spine is. It did clear up in time for the show, BTW, not perfect but good enough. After talking to my vet about it, I would prefer to use anti inflammatories in cases of swimmers tail, to prevent possible nerve damage.

Wiping my eyes too. Beautifully written, heartfelt. I lost my loved old girl earlier this year, and it's hard. I read somewhere that the cruellest joke is the short lifespan of the dog. When you welcome the young ones into your life you know that one day you will be saying goodbye. You can't do better than to have such beautiful memories. My old girl would dream and move her feet and bark in her sleep and I would imagine that she was remembering the things we'd done, all the times that she had loved so much.

I know a bunch of people who don't go on DOL who could be interested. What channels are you going through to publicise it?

I just had a look at some of the regs, thanks for the link. It's limited to herding breeds! Would you believe that a Vizsla I bred and which lives on a cattle property helps to herd the cattle for his owners? I was amazed to hear it. For me, I think I'll save the herding for my Kelpie.

Cool ... I had the thought that it's better to instil the habit early rather than late. At Parramatta they teach the turn without the ball first, before adding the ball in. That way there are some beautiful swimmers turns. The younger dogs especially have been learning these. Check out this page (click the "all" button if you have broadband), the Vizsla especially, and the height she is getting on the box. There are a number of not so good turns on that page too; you can visualise the difference in technique - both in terms of speed of dog and of the physical shock and stress on the dog.

Will you be teaching the swimmer's turn? Doesn't seem like it from the pics? It's faster and better on the dog.