sidoney

I've eaten wild rabbits myself and fed them to the dogs also - used to do a bit of shooting (only feral animals). I always take road kill. If you check the rabbit liver it should give an indicator of whether it's clean or not. Chuck the guts, check the liver, feed the muscle meat, you should be OK. I regularly use hydatid wormers anyway. I skin road kill rabbits and keep the skins - got one hanging in the garage right now - great for putting over dumbells, gundog dummies, that sort of thing.

Yep! Well this one is! Although she also has her determined side.

That seems pretty clear to me ... course I've done perch work. Agility folk do it for the hind end awareness.

Actually no, I only went to the agility seminars. Not the obedience ones. Perch work I know, yes, but I don't know the obedience applications of her ideas.

Half sisters? Same sire?

It's Avenpart Zella. On the dams page at the Avenpart site.

Xia came from Denise Agnew in Victoria who has a few good bitches that are part of the Avenpart stud.

This is Avenpart Xeria - Xia - with one of my Vizslas, Cedar. Xia is about 11 months old now and is by O'Brees Gamble and out of Avenpart Fidelia. She has been doing foundation agility training and has had one day with sheep, at which she showed natural ability (more than could be said for me). This link takes you to a thread about Xia's first day herding, and there are photos there as well, that Vickie took. BTW I think Xia is in training for dentistry too!

If they start with their hands at their sides (as the judge says, "call your dog"), then give the recall signal (whichever theirs is), and then finish with their hands in front, they have a different hand position at the end to at the beginning, and some (not all) judges will fault this as a double signal.

You should not have a problem with that. Another thing you can do is to put your hands in that position as you about turn, after walking away from the dog. That's probably more natural to do - but as you start and finish the recall cue with the same hand position, it's not a double cue. I can't see you getting pinged for it - was advised so also.

Give it a cue that means, get into this position pronto. If you are using come for something else or not so defined, I'd use a different one. "Front" is good - unequivocal about what it means.

Kavik, yes, if it worked for heel it's going to work for front - front should be easier to teach, it's a more clear position for the dog. Kelpie-i: I learned the hard way, got pinged for it once.

Be careful with putting hands in the centre if competing, as you may get faulted for double signal - depends on where your hands start and on the judge. Teach "front" as a position. Dog should be able to find front from anywhere - beside you, behind you, etc.

Agree with poodlefan. If you want advice on a dog for your family, tell us more details about you and about your family, your living situation, your habits, and so on.

Name change. I'm guessing partly because "vpzn" didn't include Trim!

Sounds like a great day!!

Well being a total novice I can't add much that is informative, but I just want to say here how much I am enjoying reading this thread. It's giving me a lot to think about and also it's motivating - looking forward to seeing how Xia does (and how I do!!) when we do more sheep work and can train properly. That isn't going to happen until I submit my thesis, but that's only a couple of months away (which is very scary in itself). BTW here are a couple of pics of what Xia has to put up with in her day to day life. The hard life of a working dog eh? Better not show the coat to the "grumpy old men" - I'd be banned for life!

So should I just try a bit of everything with Xia and see where her strengths lie?

Hi Kelpie-i, in case Denise doesn't get back soon, the McCrabbs own Avenpart and Denise and her husband (Glenn) own Avenpart-bred Kelpies and their bitches are part of the Avenpart breeding programme, so Mary (McCrabb) has input into the breeding and also all puppies carry the Avenpart prefix. My Xia was bred by Denise, under the Avenpart aegis. She has one sister training for agility and her other siblings are working on properties. I only have one Avenpart kelpie so that's not much of a sample - but I can tell you she is certainly not skittish! Anyway, Denise can tell you much, much more about that. I noticed that when I was watching. Not that I knew what was right or wrong. It was obvious that her preferred way was not to follow them over, but to meet them on the ground.

Dogs are perfectly capable of learning that a human smile means the human is likely to do something fun. They are also capable of learning that being looked at is not threatening. It depends on what goes along with it. If you only look at your dog when you are about to punish it, it will feel threatened. If you look at your dog with aggressive posture that you have used in the past, it will feel threatened. If you practice staring at your dog while feeding it, it will associate the stare with being fed. If you associate jumping up and down and yelling and making hitting motions with your hands and feet with rewards (probably would have to build up to that), the dog will associate those actions with good things and won't feel threatened. Dogs know the difference between people and other dogs. Some things that you may do may be similar to dog stuff, and the dog may initially read it in that way. If you associate it with something different, the dog is capable of learning that.

Here's my take on what's been said so far. I think problems with eye contact are due to training issues and not due to the eye contact itself. If your dog is used to eye contact, and also used to no eye contact, and also used to changes between eye contact and no eye contact, and you don't make a cue of it, so it's not anticipating something to happen on the eye contact, then there should be no problem. I think that sometimes people look at their dog when they are about to tell them to do something and, clever things that they are, eye contact can be taken as a cue that something is about to happen. At the moment I'm proofing my dogs to release on certain cues, and sometimes they will anticipate, and start to break on the wrong cue. If they thought eye contact was a part of that, then I think they'd release on that. As far as I am concerned, I should be able to look or not look at my dog, and switch between them, but it's not a cue and it won't break. If chezzyr's dog is giving her strange looks with down ears when being asked to wait or stay, the dog is having confidence problems and you should take it slowly and keep it confident. A dog that's afraid or worried in a stay is much more likely to have problems than a dog that's confident (and besides, who would want to stress their dog like that?). I like to see a nice confident body language in the stay and it's better to make haste slowly in order to get that confidence. Building a confident foundation now will pay off hugely later. I find that club training may rush some dogs - train your dog to its schedule, not theirs. Regarding proofing stays, I expect my dogs to stay no matter what. Currently one of my proofs is having them sit and stay in the back of the car when we arrive at the exciting off leash dog area with water and ducks, and I can run or jump or lie down or go out of sight or whatever, and they stay there until I release them. Note that I release them because I train for an agility stay which is a lead out and then release into flat-out run. If I trained obedience (as I used to train and compete) I would have the body position different, some cues different, and would reward in place and make the release lower key. Still, my dogs know what their job is and stay anyway. Note to self, have them do all that away from the car further, so they don't associate the car with the stay. They stay without car in many other situations, but need to mix that situation up a bit. Vickie's reminder to train the stay or wait in all aspects of daily life is an important one. Every minute you spend with your dog, you are training it in some way. May as well be the way you want. Regarding distractions. Sometimes you have to make your own distractions. Shopping centre car parks and all that sort of thing are useful. Can you throw food near your dog and it will stay? Can you throw food AT your dog and it will stay? Can you throw toys near, past or at your dog and it will stay? Can you feed or play with your other dog (if you have one) and it will stay? You can get creative. In some ways, you are teaching the dog mental resilience rather than this distraction then that distraction then that distraction. Once the dog has mental resilience, it should be able to cope with distractions it's never met before. Regarding body language on stays - proof that OUT. The dog should stay no matter what body language you use. So use all different kinds, until the dog realises that body language/eye contact/and so on are NOT part of the cue or conditions for stay. Proof out EVERYTHING except for your chosen cue or cues. Regarding corrections. As far as I am concerned, the only time one would ever use a correction is if you are totally sure the dog understands the job, and is confident with it. The danger with corrections is that people may use them under the wrong conditions - dog doesn't understand, dog is not confident, proofing has not been properly done, and so on. Then you get a stressy dog which is not only bad for itself but also tends to make getting a good stay difficult if not impossible. The most useful correction, if you really really want to do it, is one that the dog associates with the incorrect behaviour and not with the handler or other environmental conditions.

Very quickly, if you are teaching the hand target, don't use the usual obedience stay signal, the open hand in front of the nose - this would conflict. I prefer to not say stay or wait. If I say sit, that means sit until I say the next thing. Remember to reward, praise etc. in position. Then release quietly, don't make a fuss of the dog after the release. If you release and then reward ... what are you rewarding? The release! If teaching the say in a down, teach the dog to tip its back end over so its weight is more on one hip, rather than having the hind legs in a crouched position. That crouched position is good for a wait in a down, when it's going to be released, but the relaxed lying position helps the dog to settle.

We'd have to make sure it had a camping area!!!!

After seeing Zest over 2 days, I think he'd make a great performance dog. He's fast and keen and has high prey drive which can be shaped for whatever sport (think he'd go great in agility, flyball), but he's also attentive and responsive. Plus he's not a timid dog, he's confident and looks like he'd handle trial situations well. He also has a good athletic build. He'd be great for someone who wants a dog where they know what they are getting - he's got it all there to go on with. BTW I love the smile on the dial in those piccies of Xia!!!

LOLOL!!! And they have NEVER heard that word either!! (note heavy sarcasm) Have you seen top level agility yet? That is awesome too. The difference is that the dog is not working on instinct but with direction (sometimes very subtle direction) from the handler. When you get high speed and a high level of teamwork between handler and dog, it's wonderful to watch, almost like a high speed dance. (Although when you get a team that blunders around the course, generally because of a training deficit from the handler, it's painful.) BTW when Xia got home she ate a big chicken carcass and has mostly just slept since then.