Furx3

I'd love to learn more about Border Terriers! Could they be added to the list pleas?

My favourite was when I had a guy say to me "Wow, I love your Malamutes!" I was walking my Siberian Husky and Leonberger at the time! I just said "Thanks". It's easier than having the Leonberger conversation.... And my Leo has been identified as everything from a GSD/Goldie cross to a ...... well.... a Malamute :laugh:.

Wow, I must be really bad at playing it cool and neutral :rolleyes:. Love the Bracco too . It is not like I am about to get a puppy tomorrow I guess, so I still have time to spend on deciding whether the import cost and risk is worth it, waiting for my Aus breeder of choice to have a litter (whenever that may be), or changing breeds.

Agree again! That is something I am so pleased to see through this thread....the number of quality, concientious breeders who are out there doing the right thing......just wish they were breeding my breed!

Thanks Wazzat Xolo. You are right....this is a very, very difficult decision for me. And I agree, the heart decision is why so many owners end up in a bad situation, whether through choice of breeder, choice of breed or timing of choice!

Makes me cranky too! As I have said, I have been selling the ideal to others for years! :rolleyes: Can't believe that I have ended up in this situation......entertaining the thought of supporting breeder practices I inherently disagree with in order to get a dog I have my heart set on.

OOhhhh, this could get dangerous if everyone starts offering up their guesses......I am a terrible liar!! I had to look up the Canadian Pointer.....gorgeous!! But that will probably answer your question of whether it is my breed or not ;).

Tee hee, we will find out anyway when you get your pup and post photos! :D I imported my current girl, but only between NZ and Oz, where there is no quarantine. It was expensive but I don't regret it. On the other hand I would not have wanted to import her if she had required quarantine. Those first few months are so important for socialisation & bonding, especially for a performance/competition animal, I would not want my dog to spend them in a quarantine facility. If you were getting an older pup (6 months up), then I think it would be a more reasonable option. If the breeders are not testing for genetic disease and will also not give a health guarantee that the pup is free from genetic disease, then I'd say that says a lot about their own confidence in their stock being genetically healthy. If they were sure their lines were clean of genetic disease, they'd have no problem offering a guarantee. If they're not sure their lines are healthy, then IMO they should be testing. Doesn't sound very reputable to me. NZ Breeders practices are the same as in Aus unfortunately, so NZ not an option either. The reasons you have listed for avoiding quarantine are the ones that make me not want to go down that path. I know the importance of getting it right in that first year or so, and want to avoid quarantine if at all possible. If importing an older dog, the issue becomes was the dog socialised well where it came from (?).....so still no guarantee you will get the brilliant dog you hope for! I think my choices really are to work out how big a risk getting a pup from a breeder (here) who doesn't test is. And then weighing that risk up against the suitability of my second choice breed, given it's breeder practices are very good in Aus .

Just a sweeping statement, but if this is a large breed and known to have fairly high rates of HD and ED (ED has even higher rate of inheritence than HD) and you want to do agility, then I would give the breed a pass. Even a pup from tested parents would be too big a risk in my point of view. A large breed in agility will need excellent joints. Did you look up the rate of affected dogs on OFA? If you do not know how to do it PM me. I import and it is expensive. Even in my breed where there are not too many diseases that you can not test for in puppy hood ( like HD), I only import young adults so they can be tested and I know what sort of dog they have grown into. Cost run 10-12,000 and up, from the UK, most of that is shipping, then DNA and health testing and AQIS, price of dog is the minor part. Importing from the US/Canada requires a 5 month waiting period prior and 1 month quarrantine or up to 6 months in quarrantine, so I stick to the UK, Norway, Sweeden and Finnland. Thanks Shortstep. I agree, agility is risky for dogs prone to ED and HD. However, my love for this breed outweighs my love of agility. I would only compete in agility if my dog was on the smaller/lighter side of the standard, however still plan to train in agility for fun, over safe heights :D. I teach Danes in fun agility classes over toy sized jumps. Obedience, and now rally-o are my main dog sport interests, both of which perfectly suit this breed. You have freaked me out with the costs of importing!! I had started looking at the UK for the shorter quarantine time ......I knew it would be expensive, but $12k!! .

I don't understand why any breeder would want to put all their hard work in without knowing what they are dealing with. The only thing I can think of as to why they wouldn't test is that they don't want to know if there is anything wrong - they'd be at least morally obliged to do something about it, wouldn't they? Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, but it sounds like head in the sand to me. That has been my opinion throughout this whole process. I do think that the reasons I have been given for not testing are excuses for not wanting to potentially find out that what we have in this country may be rubbish that shouldn't be being bred. Testing may also show that we have excellent lines in this country, and will advise on the best way to diversify the breed :D . I have figured that the cost of importing/breeding the dogs we currently have here is now so great that nobody wants to risk losing it......no matter how unlikely that may be .

I wish emigrating was an option Arrow!!....That must really make me a crazy dog lady!! My next dog will be a pet, as well as an obedience/rally-o/agility dog. I teach obedience classes, so they would also become my 'demo' dog. I know that many of you really want to know the breed, but I will not disclose for reasons I have already mentioned plus more. I am not saying that these are 'bad' breeders either, just that testing is not high on their current agenda for many of the reasons some of you have mentioned - limited gene pool, limited lines with no faults in previous litters to date, experience in breeding, etc, etc, etc. My personal feeling is that all breeding dogs should be tested to give you a base line. You may choose to breed from dogs who have hip/elbow scores that I personally may not be happy to go with, but at least as a puppy purchaser I would have that information and could make an informed decision. I personally feel that a blanket decision to not undertake basic tests is a dis-service to prospective puppy buyers, who will be paying a lot of money for a puppy who will become part of their family....not to mention the impact not testing could potentially have on the breed in this country! I have seen a friends dog go through painful, debilitating HD and would not want to watch a dog I loved go through it. No health guarantees offered by the active breeders either. Although they do say they will provide lifetime 'support'. One gives a 1 month money back guarantee, but it is unlikely you would know in that period if you have any issues with the pup.....and would have fallen in love with it and not want to give it back either I would think. I have spoken with breeders in the US/Canada who advise not to touch an untested dog of this breed given the genetic issues that are surfacing worldwide. So, other breeds that may suit us........there are two, neither of which come close to this breed in my eyes. As I have mentioned I have two dogs currently (from my reserve list) that I chose because I haven't been able to get the breed of my dreams. I love them both dearly, and they do obedience and agility with me, but they are not my first choice breed. What about importing and quarantine? Anyone have any stories to tell in that regard? Although, this would be a really expensive way to go for a pet!!

Thanks everyone for the replies. Reading through them is kind of like following the discussion I have been having in my own head for over a year now. I understand that having clear parents doesn't mean that the puppy is guaranteed of not having issues, but it certainly provides a better starting point. I have contacted owners of pups from previous litters of two breeders also, who speak highly of the Breeders and their dogs and after support. I keep changing sides of the argument..........and given my preaching to all and sundry about the importance of buying from registered, reputable breeders who perform such tests, I feel like a bit of a hypocrite if I don't follow my own advice. I will make enquires to see if there has been any testing on previous generations (outside Aus) though.....thanks for that suggestion Aloysha......I feel like a dufus for not thinking it myself! The breed is a large breed, prone to HD too. I would "name the breed", but I also know that would identify me to the breeders, and I would hate to ruin any chance of getting a pup if I decide to buy from a breeder who doesn't test . In answer to one posters question, the breeder I have been on the wait list of has only attempted 4 matings in the time I have been waiting - two unsuccessful (AI), one phantom and one singleton pup, which she kept.

Thanks Crisovar. I consider them basic tests - hip, elbow, eyes. The breeders I have spoken to, all the active breeders I can find in Aus/NZ (bar one), do none of these tests. And yes, this is a breed with know genetic issues and international breeders routinely test for a few more things also, including heart. One of the reasons I have been given for not testing is that the dogs bred in previous litters do not have any issues. This is a newish breed in Aus, so the history of it in this country is not a long one.

Hi I have been lurking on these forums for some time, but today decided to post my very first topic . I have been smitten with a particular breed for nearing a decade and know that this breed is the one for me. I always planned for my next dog to be of this particular breed. The problem is, that this is a relatively rare breed and the active breeders of this breed (bar one), both in Australia and NZ, do not do what I would consider the necessary health testing of their breeding dogs..... And yes, they are listed on DOL and I have personally spoken with them all. They do give me their reasons for not testing, non of them valid in IMHO. I have been on the only Breeder who does test's waiting list for 7 years, a small breeder who has had no successful matings in this time, and no plans for any litters in the near future. So what now? Do I choose another breed from my 'reserve list' , from a 'reputable breeder'? I currently have two of these whom I love dearly and would not replace for all the world, but know that what I really want is my first choice breed if I am to get a third dog at all. Do I decide to take a puppy from a Breeder of the breed I want, who has not performed any health tests on their dogs? Very risky, and something I feel strongly about and lecture friends and family on !! Or do I choose to import from a country that will necessitate a stay in quarantine? This is something I am not at all keen on doing for a number of reasons, ranging from wanting to start my puppies life with our family from as close to 8 weeks of age as possible to ensure I am able to socialise the pup appropriately........ to feeling that the last place a young dog should be is in quarantine, which could potential damage the pups temperament! I also live in Qld, where there are no quarantine facilities so I would not be able to visit the dog regularly myself. So, what would you do? I would really love import experience stories too....good, bad and ugly.