Moselle

I cannot believe what this poor woman has been MADE to go through! Totally unjust and unecessary! It is an outrage. Seizing her animals simply because they were debarked???? Pathetic. Were they starved? neglected? was there any act of cruelty? NO, therefore they should NOT have been seized. I haven't heard of this story till this very moment so did a quick search to have a better idea of what has happened and to say that I am reeling is an understatement!!! Glad that things have turned out this way but quite honestly she should NOT have to pay any costs associated with her beloved dogs being seized! I really have little respect for the RPSCA, they need to get their priorities right!

Just noticed that some of these posts are quite old....howz'at?? Edited to add that I just checked the date of this thread and its dated back to last year, I dont have a habit of assuming that some threads could be so old. Hope to hear from brad again...strange though....

Tear staining is a problem with purebreds and crossbreds alike, lol....then again, not all purebreds or xbreds have the "tear staining" problem. I must say that you are misinformed in saying that it's the maltese gene that is responsible for bleaching out the crosses.

So which is it? Moselle if temperament IS genetic, why wouldn't we be looking to judge a pup on its parentage? You either avoid the pups from parents with temperament issues or you don't. I am simply unable to follow your logic. Temperament is genetic....and yes, when looking at temperament you would need to consider the parentage....as I said though, the same rule of thumb applies to whether the pup is a purebred or a crossbred. The comment I made about a dog needing to be judged on its own individual merits is in response to people who make a habit of bagging the temperament of all crossbred dogs simply because they are crossbred, that is an unfair generalisation. Let me give you an example....for someone that is adamant in breeding xbred dogs, they should, at the very least, consider the temperament of their breeding dogs first and foremost....and once again...THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE AND BY NO MEANS ADVOCATING XBREEDING.

Let's NOT. Let's remember we are on a purebreed dog forum, and if "genetic traits" are only "generalisations", we might as well be on a unicorn forum instead. I suggest you go and find one, because you will probably fit in there quite well. Yes, I do recall that this is a purebred forum and hence promoting crossbreeds is a NO NO (fully understandable)...but let's not be hypocritical by the same token. Don't twist and turn what I said, GM. I DID not imply that "genetic traits" are "generalisations", lol. Gotta laugh here otherwise I am going to start blowing smoke from every orifice, lol. I specifically meant that just because one particular dog breed may have a negative trait is NOT to say that all other purebred dogs of the same breed shares that same negative trait. Don't play mind games with me, GM....I am in the profession of having to deal with the many facets of the human mind so therefore keep it real Good shot but not good enough....

Well there goes any reason to develop purebreds in the first place. Its the fact that selective breeding increases the likelihood of traits that led to breed development. People got tired of taking pot luck on traits they wanted in dogs and wanted to improve the odds of getting what they wanted. Those who choose purebred pets today are using the same logic. If you don't care what size, coat, temperament and activity level you get in a dog, then you're far less choosy than most. You've changed your tune on heritabilty too Moselle. Not that long ago you said this: Based on your logic we can cheerfully breed HA dogs and take "pot luck" on what the puppies grow into. There's no more chance of such pups being HA than any other. AND I still stand by what I said PF. Temperament is genetic....therefore, be it purebred or xbred, dogs with less than desirable temperaments should NOT be bred from. In having said that....temperament can be a little like playing russian roulette, SOMETIMES....you can put two dogs with an absolutely awesome nature and end up with a pup in the litter that leaves a lot to be desired in the temperament stakes. On the whole though....if you do breed for temperament, chances are that you will produce a litter with a good temperament but as I said earlier, even amongst littermates you will have the more boisterous pup, the timid one, etc etc....not all littermates are alike. All in all, the same applies to xbred dogs, if the parentage of a xbred litter has a good temperament....I can safely assume that the xbred pups are likely to have an equally good temperament. Once again, I am all for saying that good AND bad covers all avenues!

Since when are cats, guinea pigs or human babies in any way affected by DOG AGGRESSION. Do you not understand what DOG aggression means? Smaller dogs, well meh - if you've ever owned a dog from a breed with a fighting background you would know that the majority treat small dogs with contempt And don't forget that most dogs can be trained to accept specific other individuals in their life regardless of their genetic background. Did you NOT understand a word I said? obviously not. The point I was making here was that even though a PB was created to be a fighting dog, it is possible for a PB to get along with other small dogs without tearing them to shreds if raised with them. Of course, there is also the possibility that even with adequate training and being raised with smaller dogs, it can one day decide, for whatever reason, that it is going to attack but that applies to a multitude of other breeds and is not only something that is confined to pitbulls.

The ones that do carry on that way are one reason why the breed is still illegal. If you want to carry on like some of them do, people won't take you seriously either. Once again....lets judge an animal INDIVIDUALLY and not make GENERALISED exaggerations, the deed and not the breed. I bet that a PB raised with love and proper training can prove to be a friendly pet, one raised with cats and small dogs need not be a killing machine.

I bet that not all shih tzu x maltese have issues with strangers or men, it isn't a particular trait of theirs. This has more to do with their upbringing rather than a breed or xbreed characteristic. I don't doubt that there are purebred dogs out there in the big wide world that may have a dislike for men or strangers alike. This has nothing to do with breed.....lest we forget - let us not blame the breed (or crossbreed) but the deed....or realistically speaking....the upbringing. A cross bred dog doesn't have traits. And I disagree that it's only upbringing which determines personality. Yes, a dogs personality may vary through the breed, but can be quite similar throughout certain lines. I have 5 dogs Moselle, and he is the only one that has that issue. They have all be 'raised' the same way by me so I reject that in this case it has anything to do with how he was raised. I have another that is DA - she is the only dog I have that is, is that my fault too? I agree that there are alot of spoilt, babied dogs out there that due to lack of training and socialisation have behaviour problems but I can promise you that it is not the case in this house. I have 2 kids - they have the same parents and are being raised the same way - they are completely different from each other. Why can't that happen with dogs too, don't they have individual personalities? That is my point exactly....could it not be a coincidence that as it turns out, the crossbred dog happens to be the one that has "issues" ??? As you said, you have 2 children and although both have the same parents, they are very different....that is the point I have been making all along.... Let's not generalise and make a habit of denigrating all xbreeds as being "horrible".... I would be just as annoyed if people were to denigrate purebred dogs and start labelling them as "horrible". I agree with tdierikx in that each dog should be judged on its own INDIVIDUAL merits rather than on its parentage.

Pitbulls were developed to be dog aggressive - the chances of getting a DA one is higher in that breed because it was selected for and desireable in the breed when it was developed. On the other hand, to be handled at the level of arousal required for the fighting ring, they HAD to be very non people aggressive. A dog that couldn't be handled was a danger to its owner. That's a point made very strongly by breed defenders when accusations that the breed is "vicious" are levelled. If you're going to cite the arguments used by defenders of the breed when talking about attacks on people please get your facts straight. Irresponsible ownership is not confined to owners of this breed. Few posters are denigrating crossbred dogs. Some posters are promoting them - and that's a breach of forum rules. You seem to have particular trouble abiding by that rule Moselle. Yes I know that pitties were bred to be DA but woe and betide if this fact is made into a discussion as all PB lovers do have a tendency to get on their high horses at the sound of that, countless times I have seen photos of a PB photographed with cats, guinea pigs, smaller dogs and human babies as a way of proving that they need not be animal aggressive. So it isnt a case of PB owners getting upset only when it comes to attacks on humans. And yes, absolutely....irresponsible owners are NOT confined to PB...god knows that there are wayyy too many irresponsible louts of any breed of dog unfortunately. As for promoting crossbreeds - I have never done that hence I dont know what you are talking about? Having said that there is good and bad anywhere and everywhere is hardly what I call "promotion"...

This may sound silly but when referring to parks....maybe a park could be divided with one section for small dogs and the other section for larger dogs ??? that way owners with small dogs needn't fear a large dog approaching their smaller dog ??? If on the street, my firm belief is that ALL dogs should be on a leash and that a hefty fine be introduced when someone is seen walking their dog off leash; I cringe at the sight of an unleashed dog being walked in a busy street aside from other factors.

I bet that not all shih tzu x maltese have issues with strangers or men, it isn't a particular trait of theirs. This has more to do with their upbringing rather than a breed or xbreed characteristic. I don't doubt that there are purebred dogs out there in the big wide world that may have a dislike for men or strangers alike. This has nothing to do with breed.....lest we forget - let us not blame the breed (or crossbreed) but the deed....or realistically speaking....the upbringing. A cross bred dog doesn't have traits. And I disagree that it's only upbringing which determines personality. Yes, a dogs personality may vary through the breed, but can be quite similar throughout certain lines. How can you say that? you know only too well that when the subject of pit bulls arises and they are all categorised as being a vicious breed of dog, all PB lovers jump on their soap boxes (and rightfully so) with stories that if a PB attacks it is because of an irresponsible owner and so forth....yet how is it that the same rule of thumb doesn't apply to crossbred dogs? All I am asking for here is FAIRNESS, I cannot stand hypocrisy. Yes this is a purebred dog forum but that is not to say that we have to denigrate crossbred dogs as being the pit of the earth!

You may not agree with my thoughts but that does not entitle you to label me a troll? I was stating the obvious in saying that there is good and bad everywhere and you accuse me of wanting to stir trouble??

I bet that not all shih tzu x maltese have issues with strangers or men, it isn't a particular trait of theirs. This has more to do with their upbringing rather than a breed or xbreed characteristic. I don't doubt that there are purebred dogs out there in the big wide world that may have a dislike for men or strangers alike. This has nothing to do with breed.....lest we forget - let us not blame the breed (or crossbreed) but the deed....or realistically speaking....the upbringing.

I totally disagree with your comment! I have had pure breed dogs all my life except for the last dog, which was a Maltese/Shitzu. He passed away 2 weeks ago with cancer at age 15. He was the best, most loyal, obedient, and loving dog I have ever had. I would not hesitate to purchase another Maltese/Shitzu. Some would say there is not bad dog, just a bad owner. Dogs like people learn by example. Welcome to DOL, bradf1405. The problem with cross breeds is that you can in one puppy get traits from one breed, and other puppy will be more like the other parent, and there is no way to tell what you will get in your mix puppy. So while your last dog was excellent, your next one might be totally different. It is such a big lottery as to what traits you may end up with when people cross breed. If your last dog had excellent traits, it would be worth you researching both malt, and shih tzu, and seeing which breed has the traits that were most like what you loved about your last dog. And then buying that breed to ensure you get a dog that is how you want it to be. The other danger with cross breeding is that there is no incentive for the breeder to use really good dogs for breeding, as cross breed fluffy puppies will sell very fast regardless of any physical problems they may develop when older, and it is hard to see problems under a fluffy coat. Buying a purebreed from a good ethical breeder is really the only way you can buy a puppy and know what to expect in terms of conformation and behaviour. Cross breeds such are a lucky dip. And unfortunately, many grow up to be so different from what their owners imagined when they first met their cute ball of fluff. Unfortunately, there are bad dogs and good dogs and sometimes good owners can end up with a bad dogs if they buy one that is really badly bred. Good breeders are so important for the future of dogs. They are the ones that developed the traits and looks that we admire in our dogs. Cross breeders do not do anything to ensure that the dog they breed has the right genes to pass these traits on to future generations of dogs. They are in it for the money alone, and they put no thought into genetic health at all. With your reasoning, immigration is not OK too! And a race should never be interbred!! Is this being "racist" ? Question? Have you got different ethnic backgrounds in your family line? Or are you purebred too? All dog breed have been interbred to create the so called "pure bred" we know today. Almost dog breeders will have your beliefs to protect there pockets! I'm not a not breeder, nor am I interested in dog shows. I'm just a person that loves dogs and looks after my pet(s). With by all my past pure bred dogs, each also have a different traits and behaviour in the same "pure bred" type. Upbringing in both humans and dogs is very important and greatly determines how one character, traits & behaviour is shaped - not just ones breeding. Don't get me wrong, I loved them all no matter what pure bred or X bred they were. I'm happy to take pot luck with another Maltese/Shitzu any day. I could not have put it better myself brad. It is so true that even amongst purebreds, dogs have differing temperaments, not all purebreds are the same, not all purebreds are predictable and even amongst littermates there is a diffference in personality....you get the livelier pup, you get the timid pup, you get the boisterous pup, you get the runt and so the list goes on.

Very accurate statement.

An unfair statement, such a comment is akin to saying that a child from mixed parentage is horrible, you cannot generalise. umm nothing alike at all, dogs are not humans cross those two breeds and conformation goes down the toilet, I agree the vast majority are horrible Yes RSG, I know dogs are not human but same concept, if you know what I mean. My train of thought is that there is good and bad in every avenue, every race, every nook and crannie and to label a particular nationality or in this case, breed or xbreed of dog as horrible is just too harsh and unrealistic. I am sure that lots of others would agree with me, fair crack of the whip, hey? So sad....

An unfair statement, such a comment is akin to saying that a child from mixed parentage is horrible, you cannot generalise. umm nothing alike at all, dogs are not humans cross those two breeds and conformation goes down the toilet, I agree the vast majority are horrible I am not advocating cross breeding but realistically speaking....what is so dastardly wrong with a maltese x shih tzu's conformation? I have seen a large number of maltese x shih tzus in my life time and none came across as having a "horrible" conformation, in fact I would go so far as saying that they appeared to be very healthy and robust.

An unfair statement, such a comment is akin to saying that a child from mixed parentage is horrible, you cannot generalise.

My God, I am so torn inside, I know I could have been so much worse if not for your kind words; thank you everyone, you are all such a big big big inspiration to me, you can never imagine just how much. I can still hear her bark, she wasn't a nuisance barker....at feeding time she would let out a bark to let me know it was her turn, I step out there expecting to hear that bark but it's no longer, I step out expecting for her to come to me for her pats, her shoulder on my lap....and now it is all just a memory, I can no longer feel the texture of her coat, I just wish I had one more hour with her to tell her just how much she means to me even though I told her that countless times before, it doesn't seem real, she can't be gone, life sucks right now but I do draw strength in the knowledge that I am not alone.....a deep thank you to everyone that has posted here xx0xx

OMG so sorry GTC. You did all that you could to the end, you hoped that with surgery she would survive but darn that chest infection. She died in your arms.....and that is heartwrenching but she died being closest to the person she idolised and that is you. We just have to muster the strength to souldier on, as everyone here has said....We have our memories and hopefully one day soon we can manage a smile, hopefully without the tears, the pain is unbelievably strong, I feel like a part of me has died with my Sophie, will I ever feel whole again? I hope so in the realisation that sophie knew just how much she was loved, from the very beginning to the very end... May Sophie, your dog and every poster's departed pet.....RIP...and hopefully one day soon we can be reunited with our loved one/s.

Thank you to all so very much, you have no idea just what each and everyone of your words mean to me I am so touched. Still getting over the shock, can't believe that she is gone. What an insidious disease cancer is. Fine one day and gone the next. I could never have imagined losing Sophie in this manner with no warning whatsoever! I thought she may have had gastro. Never in my wildest nightmare would I have expected Sophie to be taken from me so suddenly. Happy, tail wagging furiously, forever coming to me for hugs...until Friday when I noticed she was quieter than usual.... I had no idea that golden retrievers were so prone to this type of cancer. I was aware that boxers were predisposed to various cancers but somehow I never got around to finding out that GR were also susceptible. They don't show any signs of being unwell, their appetite can be great almost until the end, no weight loss...just no signs whatsoever! Life is so unfair but I will forever remember your amazing and touching words and gather strength from that. Thank you.

:D :) Thank you everyone, I so needed this. You just cannot imagine just how much your words mean to me.

I read every post of yours and thank you so so very much for your beautiful and kind words, I will never forget this moment.

Thank you tlc. Sophie was 8 yo. The worst part of it is that it was so unexpected as she was as active as ever, her appetite was great....no signs of anything being wrong with her, only yesterday she was a little quieter than normal. The last thing I was expecting was a large cancerous tumour. Gosh, owning pets is without doubt a pleasure and I could not imagine life without a dog or two....but it doesnt come without its fair share of anguish.