Aetherglow

Nope, no training whatsoever. You can't train people to recognise APBT anyway -study after study has shown that visual breed ID is unreliable when you're looking at an unknown dog. Studies have also shown that animal professionals (Rangers, dog trainers, rescuers, shelter workers, breeders etc etc) not only fail miserably at visually ID-ing dogs of unknown heritage, they also can't even agree with each other on what the dog is. The dog next door to you may have been a pure bred APBT (fairly unlikely) or it may have been a crossed APBT or simply a mixed breed dog which came out with the fairly generic appearance of an APBT. They aren't banned, they're restricted. However the dog has to be either chipped as a pure bred APBT or identified as one through the official channels before they are subject to the restrictions. Thanks for the info. At the time when I became concerned about the treatment and breed of the dog next door - Why would anyone leave a dog chained to a post for most of it's life? Should I offer to take it for daily walks? Would that be safe? - I read some information that said, for example, "It is an offence in New South Wales to sell, acquire or breed dogs on the restricted dog list." To me, a dog that's about a year old must have been acquired after the laws (or rules, or whatever) came into force and therefore there has been a breach. Maybe it's open to interpretation. I'll let the lawyers bash that one out. At the same time I found a template for identifying a Pit Bull and assumed it was used by rangers. Can't find it now. It went into details such as breadth of skull, proportions to muzzle, etc. The dog next door seemed to fit. The template was not exactly something the average person could carry around to determine if a dog is one to be wary of. And that of course leads to another question, "If I am to be wary of such-and-such a breed, how do I identify that breed?" That lack of knowledge is reasonable for the average person in the street IMO, even though it might lead to prejudice against innocent parties. (Personally, I tend to disagree with the idea of painting certain breeds with broad brush strokes. During my year in the dog park, my young GSD was harassed by all sorts, and, like other posters, I'd say to beware of any strange dog.) In any event, I now agree that the neighbours' dog was unlikely to have been a pure APBT. The head ranger, very experienced, saw the dog. The only part of the conversation that I heard was something like, "You've got 28 days..." and "If he's desexed, it costs ... blah, blah". It was none of my business, except to ensure my young and elderly dogs were safe, and to share the concern of the single mother next door with three children under 10 years of age. Poor dog :-( Visual identification of a dog's breed is fraught with difficulty. Rangers use a checklist of points for visual identification when a dog is formally assessed, which your ranger obviously didn't do with this dog. The checklist is fairly vague out of the context of a breed standard, which it was taken from, with phrases that have no obvious definition in some cases, and many breeds will fit some of the criteria, while some genuine pitties may not meet all the criteria - for instance, many Amstaffs are far bigger than their standard calls for. My family once owned a very solidly built boxer bitch that might have been in trouble in Victoria these days, if she hadn't had pedigree papers. Even a completely unrelated breed like the Australian Cattle Dog meets *some* of the criteria just by being a dog in the same general size range and having a fairly sturdy construction with decent muscles and a broad head. The dog you describe may have been a pit, may have been an Amstaff, may have been a crossbred or a Staffordshire Bull Terrier cross, or may have been a boxer x Lab for all your ranger could tell by looking at it. It sounds like the ranger may just have been one of those who isn't gung-ho about BSL laws, that's all. To my mind the biggest concern about safety with this dog would have been its living conditions, not its breed per se, although a pitty-looking dog in those conditions *may* be more likely to end up dangerous than, say, a lab. But it looking like a pitty is no reason to be *extra* afraid. Bulldogs are related to pitbulls. Pitbulls started out as a cross of the bulldog with terrier types to create a dog that was both strong and quick - at which the breeders succeeded admirably. Bulldogs were once a more athletic type of dog, too, although still a very strong, heavily built dog - they had to be, seeing as they were used to "bait" bulls and bears. Just to make things more complicated, the Amstaff IS a pitbull (never mind what the QLD government and ANKC have decided), just one from a lineage that is recognised by certain registries. It derives entirely from the Pitbull breed, as far as I know (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong). You might call it the show line Pit Bull, in the same way as there are show line Kelpies and show line German Shepherds. There are dogs that are recognised as Amstaffs on one registry and as Pitbulls on another, particularly in the US. The only dog which has ever seriously gone to bite me was a Pomeranian. The only person in my circles who has been seriously injured to the point of needing surgery for a dog bite was bitten by his own family's West Highland White Terrier. The most aggressive dog to ever try and "get at" my dog was a tiny miniature foxy, but my goodness, it was serious! I am learning all the time about managing my dog's interactions, including with dogs of her own breed, because while there may be a typical breed temperament not all dogs within the breed are the same. Learning to read dog body language and knowing the dogs and owners your dog may interact with are probably more important than avoiding an entire breed. I am careful with terrier breeds because they seem to often interpret my girl's upright ears and tail as aggressive, but she has had good interactions with some when carefully introduced. She also gets along well with and actively likes boxers, because she has known several from her puppyhood and knows that they're not scary :-)

How did you go? Any joy?

Where in Melbourne are you? I've seen them at EA Salce in Thornbury (on High Street), it would be worth ringing to find out if they have XL size in stock. Dogs are welcome in the shop. Their phone number is 9484 3805.

Excellent walking and biking on the Darebin Parklands/Darebin Creek Trail. There's even a spot where dogs can swim or play in the creek.

I've had a vet outright say to me that they prefer to see dogs on the chubby side of average, especially if they are older. Seems stupid to me, but not all vets are the same!

It is very possible that a loving owner who can afford vet care can have an animal with cancer and not know it. My cat who passed away earlier this year was seen several times for the symptoms that turned out to be cancer, and was treated for something considerably more minor for quite some time, which gave the impression of relieving her symptoms to a certain extent perhaps due to treating secondary inflammation and infection. She wasn't diagnosed correctly until a month before her death because whe wasn't responding fully to her treatment and that seemed weird to me, and even then the diagnosis was only possible because a new vet at the clinic brought suitable equipment with him that hadn't previously been available, and I was prepared to pay for an investigative procedure which is fairly unusual in pets.

Just confirming the news that's now on Facebook that Titan's body was located in the Plenty Gorge Park by rangers this morning. Thanks to everyone who helped, made suggestions and otherwise provided support. Titan has had helpers from across the world participating in the search in some way or other. Everyone is pretty devastated, and today was Lappie Day at the Royal Melbourne Show, so it has also been a very busy and emotional day for a lot of the people involved in the search.

Slightly off topic, but when I was a kid there was a tree-climbing staffie that used to lurk at head hight in a particular tree so he could see over the fence and scare the bejeezus out of people walking past minding their own business Magpies are Tarja's particular favourite, although it's possible she's attempting to herd them rather than catch them, and she has never caught one. Her behaviour towards possums and rabbits is far more predatory-looking, birds seem to be more "fun". The family boxers many years ago caught a young magpie once, but didn't kill it - they were just gently carrying it around alive. The poor thing died of shock and possible internal injuries after I took it off the dogs, it didn't have any serious visible wounds.

I know Bairnsdale and Lakes Entrance are considered tick areas, and they're not that far from Sale. I considered treating my dog before taking her down there a month ago, but figured it was still cold enough in August not to have to worry too much.

Cross posting from Lost and Found: Getting the word out for those that may be following the search for Titan. We have a lot of people who have volunteered to come and help search/plaster the area with posters on Saturday, so in order to co-ordinate and work as efficiently as possible we have set up a search co-ordination team for Saturday. If you would like to come and help out, please go to the Facebook event "Find Titan Saturday" https://www.facebook...09119845921832/ and let us know you're wanting to attend. If you don't do Facebook, please pm me or Armahani on DOL and we can add you to the list and give you details. Please note, if you want to come along, that some of the terrain in the area is steep, bushy and difficult, some of it is restricted access, and some of it is private property. We want to make sure those that come are prepared and are being respectful of the locals, as well as having people covering the maximum area efficiently and not running around at cross purposes or getting themselves sunburned, dehydrated, injured or lost, which is why we're asking for people to notify us. We will have maps prepared, notices for people to distribute and so forth.

If you want to take your dogs to the snow, the only place which gets reliable snow and allows dogs is Dinner Plain. With the warm winter we've had, that may be your best option, although it is a lot further to drive.

Ooh, I originally thought I had something on that day, but it's clear... Always wanted to try Tarja at scent work!

My family have owned boxers for years, I love them! They are higher energy than a bullmastiff, and can be inclined to silliness if allowed - my family's last dog was an over-enthusiastic doofus until the day he died, and it wasn't from lack of training or exercise. I think with either breed you would need to be diligent with training and careful around the younger children, with a boxer becasue of their energy and enthusiasm and with a bullmastiff because of their sheer size. If you want an energetic, ready-for-anything dog, I'd go boxer. If you want a more laid-back dog, I'd go bullmastiff. Either way, definitely find a good breeder to purchase from.

Well, my body doesn't need E. coli or typhoid due to bacteria in the water, either. I'll keep the chlorine, thanks. Fluoridation is more arguable in a rich country with fluoride toothpaste and a school dental program for children, but I'm happy to keep the fluoride as well.

Bullaroo, why are you first replying to yourself in your own previous thread on the same topic and then starting a new thread on the same topic again? I may be wrong, but it seems you're trying to get some kind of rise from people.

Because the priority in show breeding is winning shows which has little to do with workability. Ideally a show should be a presentation of the best working dogs if the breed is working based, workability should be the qualification required to enter a show in the first place IMHO. Speaking Retrievers as in this thread, I know of several show Labs and Golden's petrified of noise......for a gun dog, that's a dud that should never be bred or shown regardless of looks and compliance with the standards physically, the character is faulty, yet they continue to show and breed faulty dogs? The worse I have seen are GSD's between show and working lines, other than their ears stick up, they are virtually completely different dogs to the point it's hard to imagine they are essentially the same breed? An untrainable head case, which is what Crisovar specified and what the OP's friend seems to also assume, is not going to win shows. A good show dog has to work with its handler closely and happily, handle being around hundreds of other people and other distractions including bitches in heat, dropped treats, random children and the like, and be tolerant enough to have its whole body including face, mouth and genitals handled by a total stranger. That, to me, sounds like a good basic set of temperamental attributes for an assistance dog, which needs to work with its handler happily, handle distraction of all sorts, and may be subject to handling by strangers while out working in public. It needs some other things as well, but that is where you start to look at specific lines and breeders, which people who have show line labs have already pointed to in this thread. The OP's friend doesn't want a retriever to work in the field, and a dog bred for serious field work, as several people have pointed out, is unlikely to be suitable for the job required by this particular future owner. Whether or not that suits your personal idea of a Labrador, or a German Shepherd, or any other breed, is beside the point. Getting on a rant about the merits of showing is likely to cause a huge fight without actually helping the OP find what her friend needs - which in this case may quite likely be different from what she thinks she wants, which is why people ask for advice in the first place.

There are some laid back Lappies apart from Kivi! Often the boys are more chilled, but my girl, now that she is mature, will happily imitate a cuddly toy or a floor mat or be a "sleeping wolf" in her crate (by choice, with the door open) for hours at a time. There are also some Lappies who will circumvent every possible form of training to reduce barking, up to and including changing the pitch of their bark to avoid triggering anti-bark collars, or are in your face all the time for something to do. You definitely want either a very careful selection and extremely dedicated upbringing, or a calmer adult. Adult Lappies are not commonly available, though. Mirawee, I still have to tell Tarja to stop trying to dig a sleeping hole in the carpet under the bed every night... Lappies do love a hole to sleep in. Or to strategically place treasure in. Or just to have a hole which they can say "here is my hole I dug!" about.

The right Lappie, with a more laid-back temperament, could work in those conditions, although I've never yet met a puppy that wouldn't be extremely challenging in an apartment environment even if it matures into a mellow dog. My Lappie lives in a duplex and I have worked full time since I got her, but she does have a yard so toileting during the day isn't an issue. That said, she was a challenge for her first 18 months, with some comments from the neighbours, and barking is still something I am very aware of even though I'm told that she's broken because she doesn't "announce" visitors! I've found that exercise (including games and training) morning and night work best, rather than just one long walk.

Unfortunately I won't be making it next week. Due to illness, I haven't been able to get out enough to get myself or Tarja fit for a 20K event. I am very disappointed. Still, I suppose there's always next year

You hipster you. Your dog probably has a moustache. And spectacle markings.

I am absolutely convinced of this. We adopted a "Bull Arab X Mastiff" from a pound in Northern Qld, he was the absolute spitting image of a Dogo both as a pup and an adult dog, absolutely no difference to the google photos except of course he had his ears. He was such a lovely lovely calm and placid boy, unfortunately we lost him to a snake earlier this year. I guess it would be incredibly easy to call a Dogo a Bull Arab. When you think about it, Bull Arabs are essentially a type bred for the same purpose as the Dogo, but without a recognised breed type, so any large, well muscled and athletic dog could go under the title. With any dog like that, selecting for stable temperament and early and consistent socialisation would be extremely important. It seems inconsistent to me to ban them given all the other hunting breeds we have allowed, although a smooth white coat is not the best of ideas in Australia. I think they are incredibly handsome with their ears natural.

Avoid the Vectra like the plague. There's a reason it's Top Gear's most hated car! My sister had one; it was the world's biggest and most expensive lemon, and expensive to maintain and repair.

Aww, nice! Congratulations!

I never saw your lot put a foot out of line - gorgeous!

Aussie Shepherds are awesome :) I'm glad you've seen something you love, I hope your OH loves them just as much! Good luck with your puppy search, and keep us all up to date!