lanabanana

I found another once, but it was american and not frequented very much so you often had to wait days to get a reply. I prefer to talk to people in Australia though because things can be quite different from country to country. Plus the time difference must make it difficult. Me too....much better talking to people who live in the same country. Admitedly, I am not here to promote cross breeds, I am here for the information which is passed on in a really informative, educational manner and I interpretted from the rules that I didn't need to own a purebred to become a member or post about my dogs. Can make it very uncomfortable when people are not welcoming to others who don't fit inside their idea of what is right

LOL that was what I was hinting at with my first post

I have used lovemypets I think it was called.. I had a quote to buy 6 months of flea/worm/heartworm treatment from the vet for 2 dogs (36kg and 5kg) for $256, and I went to that site and paid $160. I was stoked.... I have also used dogtagssomethingorother for my dogs tags obviously lol Both were really good and goods were shipped very quickly

How ridiculous....what will be next, labs and golden retrivers because they might "fetch" someone

I found another once, but it was american and not frequented very much so you often had to wait days to get a reply.

So, are you saying ALL talk about cross-breeds is also banned? I thought it was just promotion of cross breeds and denigration of purebreds...and making sure you called your "designer" dog by it's proper name not its stupid name. I imagine my thread is considered in this. Which is not about breeding - its about identification by people who might know about breeds. I personally am here because before i joined I was forever reading excellent information on this site about DOG ownership, training etc which came across as very helpful and informative without any down nose looking - I hope I am not wrong. And also, because my next dog will be a bulldog and this looks like a good place to get information about my chosen breed.

Thanks - I am not sure it really counts though when you adopt a small puppy who most likely would have got another home lol I did consider an adult and we went round all the pounds and shelters but we had a small child then and wanted a dog we could raise and who's background we would know (well from the time we adopted) We also considered getting our much wanted bulldog but we lived in an area where they were very prone to be stolen so decided against it. The bulldog will happen....but not for a while yet

I dunno....wanna start another?

LOL at manicured paws.....shocking I know but I have never ever clipped his nails...I don't need to they just wear naturally (you can probably tell). The midget on the other hand, her nails grow so fast it's like shes racing something.

LOL that last pic of the bird and cat and all the fast movement is brilliant!

"mass debate" get it? *snigger* Maybe I am just filthy

LOL at vet comment - I agree. Took my other wee mix in when I first got her and they thought she was a maltese mix - in sayign that, I can understand the confusion it did look spossible at that point

Thanks.... Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I am going to have him tested with that BITSA thing....assuming it works

Aww thanks - its always nice to hear that you are doign a good job. The vet tonight and the receptionist did mention a number of times what an excellent coat he had and his musculature or something lol Kinda funny really, when we looked at him at the SPCA, we left and rang back about 2 hours later to put our name down. Another 7 people listed him after me but as I was first I got first dibs. They rang and said he hadnt been claimed and when I got there to pick him up, they looked horrified and I am pretty sure they did not want to turn him over to me. I was wearing, massive crappy baggy black pants, I had multiple piercings in my face. long unbrushed hair and even though i was 25, I look about 15...they started questioning and even saying "we are not sure youd be the right home"...luckily my mum was there and explained I already had an 8 year old dog who was well looked after etc etc and they let him go. Which they didnt regret - I vollied there for a while after that and used to take him down for regular visits. They have even had pics emailed since w emoved to Oz.

I knew the Quasimodo one was coming but I'd forgotten all about this last one. LOL I love that...and I like the one of the little dog face planting on it's way out of the paddling pool. My photos aren't very good but they give me a giggle whenever I see them It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog Too tired to make it all the way into bed I just need 5 cents and then I can get a happy meal I am beating up the carpet HELP! It got me! Ooooo floor looks like it could use a sweep on that one LOL

Whoops. went a bit crazy on the pics - was trying to make sure I had plenty of ones that showed the many faces that are Barney LOL

I am not sure if this is the right spot for it but I will put it here anyway. I have a dog who was a pound puppy. He was found roaming at about 8 or 9 weeks of age and taken to the pound and then on the SPCA run he was moved there for a better chance of his owners claiming him or getting a new home. Anyway, obviously his owners didn't claim him as I am now his proud mama. As he was a pound/SPCA baby, we have no idea of his parentage what so ever. We assume he is a lab mix because that is what he looks like. However, that doesn't mean that is what he is. When he was young everyone through he was a pure lab and then when he was about 1 I met a lab breeder while out walking one day who told me she thought it quite possible he could be a purebred lab but not show quality. Then, we went to the vet today for vax and check ups and the vet thought he was purebred. Other breeds people have suggested as being in him are Mastiff, Rottweiler and Pitbull - from certain angles he looks like he could have any of these breeds or none at all. So, as there are bound to be some Lab expert people ere, I thought I would ask for some opinions on his looks and if you thought he definitely had lab in him, possibly how much and maybe what else could have been thrown in for good measure. I am going to have him tested at some stage just out of interest but would like to see ideas in th emeantime. Some helpful information: He has webbed feet He has a double coat - he is a mission to bath because it takes ages to get him fully wet He has the big fat otter type tail His ears are not floppy like a proper lab but bent and laid back against his head, or stick straight out if he is interested in something. He drools - especially when foor is around - and lots of it He is very boisterous He is fully black with a bit of a white patch on his chest He is quite people oriented to the point of being a little clingy and "me me me, pat me, let me sit on your lap" He's about 65 cms high at the whither Weight is 36.4 kgs He is very blocky, solid and muscley and has a massive neck and head See pictures below, I will post a few so you get a view from multiple angles and if you need more - let me know. First pic he is 10 weeks old, the rest all vary up to now (5 years).

at "tickling" love it I know of a few big bitch, tiny male matings too...and i know for a fact one of them the bitch was laying down...and another a male used a step lol I am really curious though about a big male and a tiny female......and any damage it could cause...or not

Jaxx's Buddy: "i really cant be bothered going through the posts and you havent either so you cant say no rules broken (having only 11 posts doesnt exactly give you much experience with the rules here either) furballs just isnt listening to what people are saying and repeatedly asking the same questions and i am done with this thread " I have read every post in this thread and I don't see anything against the rules. 11 posts means I can't read and understand a set of rules? LMAO ridiculous much. 11 posts doesn't make me a regular or popular poster but I assure you, I can read and my comprehension of the written word is pretty good too. Especially when you consider the rules are typed in fairly plain english stipulating what is and is not allowed. I didn't realise repeatedly asking the same questioning and not listening was against the rules - they should add that to the rules page, we can't know these things by osmosis

She is very very cute... I reckon shih tzu....but it will probably be easier to tell when she gets her dog body. I am not sure about the undershot thing someone mentioned earlier though...I have a shih tzu mix (with foxy) and she has a long narrow snout (suprise somewhat similar to a foxy's lol). How big is she (weights height etc)? I am not in expert in dog matings or anything but wouldn't something as big as a border collie internally injure a tiny dog like a maltese? We have a lab sized dog (who is entire) and then our wee mix and I made sure I got her speyed before she went in heat coz I was so worried our big boy would get to her and rip her in half LOL - was I just being stupid? I mean, I have seen his "bits" all out and swollen and it is huge - surely it wouldnt fit in a tiny dog. Sorry - I have just filthed up the thread lol

yep it is a pure bred forum and your line of questions and attitude would be better placed in another forum that has cross breds as its focus IMO So you people can judge others as you please but when someone asks a question that you don't like they should go elsewhere? yes when the questions, subject and attitude are against the forum rules and intent Can you explain what you mean by the above comment from here which you should have read before posting http://www.dolforums.com.au/forumrules.html This site is for pure bred dog discussion The primary purpose of this forum is to promote and discuss pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC) so we ask you respect our aim when visiting here. If you own a cross breed dog, you are also welcome here, but we ask that you refer to it by it's proper name (eg a pug-x or cavalier-x instead of the designer term 'pugalier'). Do not make comments that are likely to start or perpetuate an argument. This is not related to just having a difference of opinion. No promotion of cross breeds / designer dogs This site has nothing against cross breeds (most of us have had one at some stage in our life), however we are against the promotion of them as being superior to the purebred dog and people cashing in on the 'designer dog' craze. We also ask that you refrain from unnecessary designer dog discussion. (ie discussion that has no real purpose other than to express dismay at the latest 'cross breed' you saw (or read about)). Sure, we all know they are out there, but we prefer to concentrate on discussing the pure bred dog (ANKC recognised breeds). No denigration of pure bred dogs Speaks for itself. If you don't think pure bred dogs make the perfect pets, then maybe this forum is not for you. No denigration of responsible, registered breeders and breeding practices Our site has a lot of breeders with a lot of knowledge to share. We will not tolerate members who denigrate (however subtle) responsible breeders and breeding practices. I don't see that furballs is breaking any of those rules. All crossbred dogs in this thread have been referred to as their name rather than some cutesy name. This thread hasnt caused an argument - only a difference of opinion Nobody is promoting crossbreeds or putting down purebreds. No rules broken

I think I know the pug breeder - are they in the Sydney area? If so they aren't regarded as being reputable at all and I would definitely call them a BYB I'm sure she is gorgeous - lets just hope she doesn't have any genetic time bombs waiting to go off Re: snoring - she will probably be very loud as she ages my parents pug hardly every snuffles/snores although she is getting abit louder now that she is 11+ No not a breeder from Sydney...they are not in this country at all. Sorry, I didn't stipulate that my friend (and hence the breeder) is in NZ as I didn't think it relevant info. She is a gorgeous wee dog and I agree, hopefully no genetic disorders to come. I have warned my freind about things to look out for after doing some research into each breed so she can be prepared. But I believe both parents have been checked for known disorders...if the breeders weren't lying that is. Anyway, friends are happy with the wee lass. The breeder was really nice and very forthcoming according to my friend. She had already backed away from other litters due to breeders coming across as money hungry and dodgy etc. She is their first dog so I hope it all works out well for them, especially as they are already thinking about going back to the breeder for one of their pugs in the future.

Very true - however I think alot of the demand is because people don't understand that the 'x-doodle' puppy they are buying isn't a new 'rare' breed but rather a straight crossbreed. T People pay it because there is a myth that purebred puppies are even more expensive (most people don't bother doing their own research) and because they believe they are getting some new fangled rare breed. If people realised more about where pet shop puppies come from they wouldn't want to buy the puppies. Hybrid vigor does not happen. Crossing two individuals of the SAME species does not create a hybrid. Crossing two breeds can be very similar to playing genetic Russian roulette - you don't know what the puppy will get. For example the puppy may get a mix of features from each parent this could lead to fundamental anatomical machinery not fitting together properly i.e. wrong shaped knee caps with leg bones or very small mouth with too many/too large teeth. I would have walked away when it became evident the lady hadn't taken the pups to the vet. Having had the heartache of thinking myself to be 'saving' a puppy from a similar situation only to have her die a week later from Parvo I would NEVER support a byb ever again. They don't care for the dogs and they don't deserve the label of 'breeder'. They just want money or are too lazy to care for their animals properly and de-sex them or take measures to avoid litters. I understand then sentiment of wanting to save her - and you have which is a good thing, I bet she is a fantastic dog- but you (and I) have helped the cycle continue. When people continue buying these puppies and supporting the actions of byb's and pet stores they can keep breeding. My parents bought a puppy from a pet store (Malt X Shih) about 10 years ago. For the first 5 years of her life she was healthy as can be and then her genetic luggage started catching up with her. She has/had terrible luxating patellas which have had to be corrected with surgery (costing $1000 per hind leg). Because of this she has bad arthritis in her back legs as well. When you compare her general health to my parents pug (from a responsible reputable breeder) it's much worse. The pug has yet to have had a serious health issue and is going strong at 11+ years. I don't understand this - what does the mixing make better about the puppy? Running health checks on the parents may help to a degree but at the same time the byb will have no knowledge of genetic diseases for which there are no tests (unlike purebred breeders which have more of this knowledge by benefit of parentage/family history). I have more to say on this but can't seem to express it properly in words - my brain isn't functioning today! Some great points, I haven't learnt to split quote yet so I will just number by quote: 1. Agree. Some people I am sure are aware they are a cross - but like others, think they are going to get the best of both breeds mixed into one. 2. Personally, I find the price to be pretty equal round the board. Sometimes pure is more, sometimes cross is more but it all averages out to be the same. at the end of the day, if someone wants that particular dog, regardless of breed/cross, they are going to pay for it no matter the cost. 3. OK so technically it wouldn't be Hybrid Vigour as they are the same breed, but using the term loosely as applied to in-species breeding, people think (and it can happen) that the cross breeding dilutes the genes that carry the genetic disorders...they dont think about the fact that it can highlight them making it worse. Wording is probably not the best there - I am not a breeder nor a geneticist but I am sure you get the gist of what I am trying to get at. I totally agree about the roulette - which I think I alluded to in my original post. 4. I probably should have walked away...however, I have purchased or obtained for free many a mutt (accidental breeding) without them having had a vet visit prior to purchasing so that wasn't a big issue to me. Needless to say she went to the vet the day after we got her and had a full check up. In regards to Parvo, my dog (who died when we got her here) obtained parvo after she had had all her puppy shots and she had had regular vet visits since birth so there are no garantees. Encouragement for BYB is a toughy...at the end of the day, someone is going to purchase those pups and I think it's better that someone who maybe has an idea of the issues that may occur in the future (and is prepared that that may happen) rather than some poor unsuspecting gullible who wants a cute puppy (and has no idea and dumps them when they become a problem). 5. Good point....the breeder of that particular mix, is actually a purebred breeder (I did call them a BYB breeder in my last post - but they do breed pures...could still be a BYB though). They breed pugs and have been doing so for a while I believe. So the parentage/family history was there, and I assume the knowledge of unknown genetic disorders. I don't knwo all the facts though as I just have second hand info from the buyer. I am not sure why they choose to cross with a griffon....IMO it was for cuteness factor only...I can't imagine any real purpose for that mix, or any way there would be improvements by mixing the two. Granted she is a gorgeous looking puppy....but I imagine she will have numerous issues (maybe not severe) as she gets older - but she may not and they have a really cute dog out of it (mind you she already snores so that doesn't say much for her super squashed face and how it will be as she ages).

In answer to the OP Why do people cross breed? Because there is demand for cross breed dogs - it is that simple. Why do they charge stupid amounts for cute little cross breeds? Because people will pay it - its that simple. I personally have no problem with breeding of any sort, pure or cross, providing the breeder is responsible and ethical and has all the relevant health checks done for the parents to lessen the likelihood of genetic disorders from either breed showing up in the pups. Granted, hybrid viguer (sp) can and does happen, but also the opposite can happen where the pup takes on every bad health issue from both of the parents. I have a wee cross/hybrid which was accidentally bought from a back yard breeder. I initially thought it was an accidental mating, these things happen. It didn't bother me she was asking $220 for the pups as pups cost money to raise. We went and looked at the pups and selected our girl and I started asking the lady about vet visits and vaxs etc...she had done none of it. She hadn't flead them, wormed them or taken them for a vet visit at all (they were 8 weeks old). I was absolutely horrified. Anyway, this just firmed up our decision to take our baby home as we felt she needed to be taken somewhere safe (and she was so cute I had already fallen in love) and then we said to the lady, we will give you $180....thats when we realised she was a BYB because her response was "You are getting her cheap anyway because I usually charge $250" and then told us her two dogs (a foxy and a shih tzu) had had something like 3 or 4 litters. Now I can say I should have put the puppy back so as not to encourage BYBers...but I was already set on her, I felt she needed to come with us and if I didn't take her, someone else would have. I don't know what health issues she may end up with, if any, but now I know she is in a home where she will be looked after and get any treatment she needs. Thus far she is a healthy little girl (1 next week) and very robust, she is a gorgeous scruffy little dog and I am glad I got her - BYB or not. However, I would not recommend purchasing from a BYB. My friend purchase last week a pug/griffon mix (very very cute) off what some might say is a BYB. However, they run health checks on both parents for things both breeds may have (I can't remember some of the names). They provide a list of breed traits for each breed and explain that the pup may be a mixture of two, or one or something different, they provide information around genetic disorders. They put them in contact with other pug/griffon owners and all pups were health checked and the list goes on. Pretty responsible if you ask me and I have no problem with cross breeders like that. At the end of the day, any breeder, pure or cross, can be responsible or irresponsible so research should definitely be done into the breeder of choise regardless of what is being bred - if that makes sense. Gone off on a big fat waffle.....

Good stuff - I shall also try to remember where I am posting in that most people are likely to refer to them properly and not likely to get them confused.