lanabanana

awwww snowysal that is just lovely!! My girl only has the big boy to snuggle with and because she is a ratbag and always beating him up, he tries real hard not to snuggle back lol

awwww george is gorgeous, I wanna cuddle him!! I will take advantage of this opportunity to slip a quick wee photo in of my little girl, not that she is suitable coz those cute little ears of hers do not seem to serve any actual purpose lol (any op to show her off lol)

Thanks for the responses everyone, learning lots.

Thanks, I will def have a look at that, though I don't know much about labs per say either. We do have a lab x here but the extent of my knowledge would be being able to identify one, and knowing about some of their traits lol

So that would explain the difference between, for example, a working lab and a show lab - though technically both could meet the standards? Thansk for the info.

Excellent, thank you. Could you give me a bit of information around the difference between breed standard and breed type as I am not 100% sure what that means. Does this mean you can have a breed type that does not necessarily meet the breed standard? A dog can conform to the standard perfectly, but look different than the others. There are some small things that the standard doesn't state or is broad that can be changed by the individual breeder. I'll use Chinese Cresteds as an example, the standard states that they should be medium to fine boned. Some are bred medium boned, some are bred fine boned. They will look different, but they are both still right by the standard. Standard also states that angulation is only severe enough as to produce a level back. Meaning some dogs will have more angle than others, but yet again, neither is wrong. Ok cool, so while they are bred to standard, they are of a different type? And would you also get different types in one litter, or usually just the one type (obviously you would generally breed true to type eh?)?

I thought so. Does that mean the breed standards are updated at the Aussie kennel club to reflect the law? How does that work? It means that we are no longer able to dock. atleast aussie shepherds have a natural bob tail gene, and it doesnt affect their conformation. full tailed aussies can still be shown, - but i couldn't really see them being exported with tails. Ok get ya. Understand about them perhaps not beng exported with tails. Docking is done very young isn't it - like 3 or 4 days old? Yep very young. also dewclaws are done then (if they have any) Oh really? Do some dogs not have dew claws? You really do learn something new everyday, I thought all dogs had them (all my dogs have).

I thought so. Does that mean the breed standards are updated at the Aussie kennel club to reflect the law? How does that work? It means that we are no longer able to dock. atleast aussie shepherds have a natural bob tail gene, and it doesnt affect their conformation. full tailed aussies can still be shown, - but i couldn't really see them being exported with tails. Ok get ya. Understand about them perhaps not beng exported with tails. Docking is done very young isn't it - like 3 or 4 days old?

Excellent, thank you. Could you give me a bit of information around the difference between breed standard and breed type as I am not 100% sure what that means. Does this mean you can have a breed type that does not necessarily meet the breed standard?

I thought so. Does that mean the breed standards are updated at the Aussie kennel club to reflect the law? How does that work?

No, all breeds meantioned are ones I like LOL. The purpose of the thread is I am interested in the "bettering" of a breed and the cosmetic aspect of standards. I only mentioned the pug again as I couldn't think of another example that might explain what I was meaning. Do we assume I am a troll because I am posting in the wee hours (I just cannot sleep and am having an all round horrid night)? No no no. I'm just trying to understand what you are trying to do? the only cosmetic thing in my breed would be the docked tail. Coat length helps with heat/cold/rain.. Coat colours are genetic Eye colours are not a requirement, blue, brown or hazel doesnt matter. Height restrictions aren't cosmetic.. it's not really even a restriction, just a preference. Just wanna hear some information really about standards, cosmetics, bettering the breed etc. I do find it a tad tricky to put words the right way sometimes to get my point across. I guess, how sometimes one thing may be sacrificed in place of another in order to meet standards or something....words still arent right. When words fail to express properly, change topic LOL: I am reasonably new to Australia and in NZ tail docking is still legal. I thought it wasn't in Australia or is that only certain states?

No, all breeds meantioned are ones I like LOL. The purpose of the thread is I am interested in the "bettering" of a breed and the cosmetic aspect of standards. I only mentioned the pug again as I couldn't think of another example that might explain what I was meaning. Do we assume I am a troll because I am posting in the wee hours (I just cannot sleep and am having an all round horrid night)?

but how much of the standards are cosmetic only? - The Australian Shepherd Standard still calls for a docked tail. And what about breeds who appear to serve no function (not sure about this but maybe a pug - what are they meant to do?)? - I don't follow. Nonsporting breeds are designed to be companions to the best of my knowledge? True! Good blimmin point. In my early hour daze I forgot about that bit, so disregard that LOL What I am truly asking, is how many of the standards are really bettering the breed and how many are purely cosmetic I guess. Maybe the pug would come into the case where perhaps the spine bends a little to get a tight corkscrew???? Not sure, but hopefully that explains what I am asking a little better.

Awwww I wish my girl was well trained LOL I have a gorgeous wee mutt (foxy/shih tzu - tiny short legs and scruffy black and white fur) would I think look slike she was made for TV mischeif. But she is a naughty girl LOL. I would have supplied my girl for free too - just being able to say she was in a short film would be cool enough LOL Good luck in finding a dog.

LOL funny, me too I thnk. We have an Aussie across the road, a beagle across the road, an American Bulldog 3 or 4 doors down, a shihtzu and a maltese at the end. Mind you, that's only because our neighbours moved out a few weeks ago. Their dog was def a crossbreed but no idea what. Although, I always here a dog, next to the neighbours house but I have never seen it walking down the street so that one could be a cross too lol

I prefer the Harleys build also, but the colour of the other two lol

Good job OP My friend got a call from her neighbour one day while she was at work and her dog had jumped the fence and hung himself (rope long enough to get over fence but not long enough for him to touch the ground) and unfortunately, the neighbour had also called the council and they removed and disposed of her dogs body before she even got home. She was very upset. I used to have a dog who was a great escape artist, 6ft plus fences were not a problem for him to leap without even touching the top (and he was only knee high which made it quite frustrating) and in the end our solution was to chain him also. However, we very carefully measured out his chain to allow as much length as possible, but also to ensure that he could not get caught in anything on the property and could not leap fences.

I don't think it is cruel. But then for the past couple of months I have made my dogs put up with their scrap of a bed. They used to have a very heavy proper camping sleeping bag in their outside bed and slowly they have been killing it. It is now in two pieces, of ohhh maybe a metre square each with no stuffing, just the outside fabric. I just replaced it with a duvet I got from the Salvos specifically for their outside bed, and they had it maybe 3 days before starting to wreck it. Inside they have a nice thick foam matrress, and they also sleep on this overnight in their room (if not in our bed) but even that they have chewed one cover off and ripped massive holes in the foam. I replace the cover same time as their new outside bed and this morning for up and they had ripped a hole in it and started pulling the blimmin foam out. My OH told me "no more beds for them if they are going to keep wrecking them", but I think they are gettign th ehint with the outside one because I left the old "scrap" out there in the hope they would continue to kill that instead of the new bed and even thjough they have attacked the new bed, for the last two days it hasnt budged from the crate lol

EDIT: Edited to add that this is not a breed bashing thread (as thought by someone). Any breeds mentioned are just examples and the example may even just be a generalisation. They are merely there to provide examples of what I am "questioning" I guess. This thread is a spin off from the "who should breed" thread. And it is also something I was talking about on another (non-dog) forum the other day. Obviously breed standards are there for a reason, but how much of the standards are cosmetic only? How many are really needed for the dog to be fit for the function it was bred for? And what about breeds who appear to serve no function (not sure about this but maybe a pug - what are they meant to do?)? For example, I have seen show labradors and working labradors who look quite different, e.g. The working labs being generally leaner with longer legs. Or another example would be the ridge on a ridegback. And, how many of those cosmetic standards should really be changed to "better" the breed, perhaps this most suits breeds like bulldogs where normal breeding/births isn't always able to occur or their flat faces etc (just using them as an example, not saying that is necessarily the case).

Good points totally. I am of the opinion that any dog can turn out to be "defected" even with health testing and temperament testing or good breeding. I always recommend puppies (not because I am against adopting adults) but yep, probably should have specified I was specifically referring to a pup. However, I admit I do agree somewhat with the posts as when we got our boy Barney from the SPCA we had looked at a number of shelters and pounds and my OH was very keen on a large entire adult male from a pound who resembelled (sp) the dog we had just lost, but twice the size. He was a beautiful looking boy but I said no for a number of reasons 1. The dog licked his hand through th ecage but looke dmore like he was "tasting", 2. there was not one hint of a tail wag and 3. Our daughter was only little and the dog very large and with his non-tail wagging I wasn't sure about him. Instead we went down to the SPCA and got Barney as a 10 week old puppy and while he is one of the most annoying dogs I have ever owned, we love him to pieces lol So yep, know what you all mean. ButI still stand by a shelter adoption or a foster adoption or whatever you want to call it.

I would never recommend that a family with young children adopt a dog directly from a pound or shelter. A responsible, knowledgeable foster carer from a rescue that does extensive temperament testing is the way to go. A child's safety needs to be guarded by obtaining as much information about a dog BEFORE it enters the family. That can only be done by adopting a dog that has been observed for some time in, and in a home environment if possible. So, you think a puppy adopted from a shelter is going to kill 3 boys? LOL I used shelter as where I come from, most "shelters" test the dogs before rehoming, as opposed to pounds who don't.

On it's own in play it is usually insignificant. If both dogs have otherwise good social signalling then there is usually nothing to worry about, so for e.g, even if it did get a bit rough, if one dog showed signs of anxiety or tried to get away and the other dog respected that then it wouldn't usually be something to worry about (notice I'm using the word "usually" a lot though, nothing is ever black and white). It's an issue when one of the dogs is not respecting the feelings of the other and ignoring their signals. One of my dogs bites the belly, legs and throat of the other. She has never drawn blood but I cautiously consider these to be "death threats" because she does not respect the other's wishes if he tries to get away or displays cut-off signals (and that is not fair on him, even if she really had no intention to ever really hurt him). It got to a point where there was a bit too much excitement in their environment (my daughter) so I separate them unless I'm able to give them enough of my attention to keep things under control. Very interesting. It's quite interesting you say that as are wee dog definitely does not respect th ebig boys wishes. She is still only yong (just turned one) and she will bite his feet and legs when she decides its time to play regardless of whether he wants to play or not. He will try and get away and she just continues. She is often tld to stop when he clearly doesn't want to play. She also will go for his throat, which doesn't cause any damage at all because he has a big loose neck and she usually comes out worse ff anyway because he can hold her down with one foot and there is nothing she can do about it lol There are definitely no "angry" undertones though and the big dog is very patient with her and while he has never told her off (apart from the one time with food) he has a certain thing he will do when he has had enough and our wee girl immediately backs down then. I knew if they could get the other dog down they would go for the soft bits but for some reason it never occured to me to put that together with the biting of legs. I think though our girl is definitely just having a play, she mostly does it when she wants to be chased, and/or that's the easiets place for her to reach as his legs are by her face lol. Learn soemthingnew though everyday eh. Very interestng about th legs.

OMG triple post WTF

Double post I did mean to ask though, what is the signiicance of a dog going for legs as opposed to going for head? And is this a bad sign in play? For example, our wee dog always goes for our big dogs legs and feet when she is playing, or just trying to annoy him. I always assumed it was because that was the only place she could reach without jumping up on her back legs (which she also does to hang off his fac) but is there a reason she does this?

When I was 13 or 14, we had an 8 year old border collie, speyed bitch. My mum was then gifted a beautiful wee staffy bitch of 3 months. She was speyed at 6 months. When she hit about a year old, she started attacking the border collie. We assumed it was a leadership challenge as the bc was definitely the alpha at that time. Anyway, the attacks continued over the next two years, Spaced months and months apart. These spats resulted in my mum having stitches in her ankle, my hand being bitten and my sisters eye being bitten (not serious). Fights always stemmed from things like the bc sitting where they staff wanted to sit or similar. Anyway, the bc never ever backed down and gave as good as she got. But after 2 years they were separated and when they couldnt be separated the staff was tied up so that they could lay together, but the border could move off if necessary. They spent the next 7 or 8 years like that - what a hassle. We thought it was the female/female thing. But mum got a male later (was my sisters and she just dumped him at mums) and the staff used to attack him also so really it was just her lol. I personally, always have one of each. Never had any problems at all thus far except the odd snap (never an actual fight if that makes sense). Really hope I dont have any now as my male is 36 kgs and my female is 5 and the run together all day whilst I am at work. Admitedly, the wee girl did approach the male when he was eating one day and he had a go at her, but I always supervise meals so yelled and he stopped. I dont think he was fully getting stuck in but just making lots of noise and pinning her. Anyway, it did the trick and now if there is food around, she always backs off and lets him have first dibs lol. If there did start to be problems though, I would have no hesitation in separating them when supervision wasnt around but we have never reallyhad that issue. I am not sure if it is down to the dogs we have chosen (we have never temperament matched - though will do so in future) or whether it is our attitude that ensures these fights dont happen. But I tend to think it helps to have one of each sex. I have started waffling now and I am pretty sure my post doesn't make much sense so I am just going to stop now.