ladyrita

Hi everyone, Well as I said I did leave this forum! But my friends/family have now taken a bit of interest in this thread and the replies...they might be the reason why the views have been so high :D And some of them noticed this: Funny, my family/friends noticed I NEVER said the breeder was going to RETURN the deposit in ANY of my posts. I can't change all your opinions but it's just bizarre to think that this is coming from a "neutral" party who seems to have more information than the rest of you or possibly even myself! In any case, the deposit was promised to be repaid but since it hasn't arrived yet, maybe bug could assist in the safe arrival of my deposit or maybe Auspost takes more than 4 days to deliver a letter within the same state...

Ironically enough, the breeder called us 2 days after he retracted from the sale. He was apologetic and was the first to admit that he was “sharp” and “short” with us. Unexpectedly, he then OFFERED US THE PUPPY AGAIN. As, I presume you are a reputable and caring breeder, don't you find it strange that he was so adamant in his refusal to sell us the puppy two days before a complete 180 turn around? Would you have done the same? In any case, in my search for another breeder, a Queensland breeder told me that it was “probably best to continue with the breeder you are speaking to” So does that mean that you DISAGREE WITH THIS QUEENSLAND BREEDER because essentially she was recommending me to pursue this sale to proceed after we had been refused the puppy? – She is also a reputable breeder I believe. They are not necessarily “anti breeder” as you put it but anti-BAD-breeders in general. They have not swayed me to even consider buying from a pet shop or a Backyard Breeder (BYB) for a princess or fido mating, they have encouraged me to do more research and “not give up” – I will find my breeder and my puppy – that I am sure of. When did we say we were unhappy with the puppy? And ask for answers, we didn't receive any so how can we be unhappy by them? We were concerned, it was just answers to legitimate questions (as even you pointed out) which were not given. That was what made us confused about where the breeder was coming from. Maybe it was “not unethical” but: 1) An offer 2) An acceptance 3) An agreed amount to be paid 4) The acceptance of our deposit Made it a verbally LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT – which was broken by the breeder - who never gave a valid reason as to why he rescind from the sale. Furthermore, it is definitely unethical that we were told to pick the puppy up at 7 weeks and illegal. Luckily for you, you were not the one on the receiving end of the abusive phone call, so you will not know how he spoke to me, or how he reduced me to tears. Or for that matter, how hard it was for us to get in contact with him after he blasted us when we questioned the puppy’s health and HE HUNG UP ON US. We HAD to call him from a DIFFERENT PHONE NUMBER (our phone records available) before he picked up our calls. This second call was to inform the breeder that we still wanted THAT puppy (based on the fact that we still thought that this “reputable” breeder would NOT sell us a sick puppy – even with our questions unanswered!), he would not listen to me, even as I apologised for asking (legitimate) questions and was very “short” and “sharp” with me– as he admitted in the last phone conversation he had with my father. To sum up: You didn't answer any of the questions in my original post. In fact it seems that you wished to create responses that would "gee up" anti-LADYRITA sentiments. Now to address everyone who is interested Thank you for all those who answered my questions. That was all I came here for – definitely not to cause “character assassination” (clearly highlighted by the way I avoided mentioning the breeder or the breed) Although am I right to assume that at least one of you knows who he is? It made me feel that there are many GREAT, CARING AND GENEROUS breeders out there. Those of you who noticed the 2 x 4 hour return drives (me on my L plates, with my father, mother and sister in tow) + preparing for that third trip to pick up the puppy, would have an indication of the great lengths we would go through for that puppy. Most of your responses renewed my belief in breeders and I will now take leave from this forum to concentrate on finding that one special puppy from a breeder who are like many of you.

The build up to getting this puppy (for my family anyway) was likened to the joy, excitement and anxiety that comes across when awaiting the arrival of a baby brother or sister. Not only had we bought everything that the puppy physically required (crate, food bowls, numerous sample packs of puppy food generously given to us by PREMIUM dog food companies (ARTEMIS, EAGLE PACK HOLISTIC, NUTRO so as to determine which food the puppy would prefer), dog bed, toys, collar with name tag ALREADY ENGRAVED etc) but we were all ready to provide the love that he would have emotionally required. As buyers we were ready on ALL levels to have this puppy and he was quickly taken away from us – along with our hopes and dreams of owning that puppy. How could one not feel upset by this? I don’t know how you have interpreted this, but to clarify, we were concerned about the puppy’s unwillingness to play with his siblings/interact at all and his possible eye problem but we NEVER said we wanted him DNA tested. I think you have been misinformed about that. Please read carefully. I suppose since we trusted the fact that this breeder was supposed to be reputable (and another Queensland breeder reminded me of this) asking about health tests was the last thing on our minds. In any case, if anything would come up, we presumed it would at the vet check required at 6 week vaccination. It was too early for us to make such queries. Since you are unaware of the circumstances, I’ll fill you in. We did not initiate either visit. He said that if we didn't go down to have a look, make a choice and put a deposit, we may lose out on a puppy - this is why we went up at 4.5 weeks. First visit, he asked if we were keen, which we said we were and he asked for a deposit. We handed him the cash, feeling like that was the only way we could have secured the puppy we chose - this was OUR security - not his! Once money was in hand, he invited us to visit in 2 weeks, when the puppies were mature so we could be sure of our choice and see them “running around”. We graciously accepted his offer and had no doubts at this stage of his reputation as a breeder. As above we were 110% enthusiastic about giving a healthy puppy a happy home. We merely posed questions to the breeder and this was done the day after the vet had come to see the puppies. Knowing this, we asked what the vet had to say, our questions were sidelined by the breeder getting quite upset by us even asking! A simple “Yes the puppy is fine” or “No it seems he’s a little groggy” would have been good enough. Either way, it would have been nice to know. Since we really hadn’t asked the breeder a lot (based on that fact that we trusted him as a reputable breeder), we asked him if the parents were genetically tested or if the mother had previously healthy litters and he responded by saying “does that really matter?” He was getting increasingly upset by what we thought were perfectly legitimate inquiries. Such a shame that many breeders don’t seem to be interested in learning more about buyers and meeting them in person. As above, he invited us to visit him both times. For what? The second time was again at his behest, NOT OURS. It was his suggestion to see the puppies be more “active” and “running around” as he put it and to make sure we picked the right puppy. Thank God we did make the second trip! Clarification in order: The breeder did say “yes, look, if you want the first pick of the litter, come on Monday or Tuesday and be quick” my father asked “really that soon?” and he said “yes they’ll have their vaccinations tomorrow so they’ll be free to go after that”. Even in the phone conversation my father had with him, 2 days after his outburst (which the breeder has apologised for), he said that it was OK to take the puppies home so long as there were no other dogs in our home. Other breeders have now confirmed (Ozstar kennels and Bilbo Baggins included) this is a critical stage for all puppies. This 7th week pick up can be backed up by a vet appointment we made on Monday 31st May – the day the breeder confirmed we would receive the puppy and this appointment was made within the hour of coming back from the 2nd visit. Why would we have made the appointment otherwise? My vet can back this up. At that stage, both the vet and my family were unaware that the breeder was risking the health of the puppy so soon after vaccination or that it broke the DogsVic COE - as my family was under the illusion by the breeder that it was OK to pick up at 7 weeks and therefore did not see it important to mention to the vet. As above, we did ask the breeder about the vet check and he was increasingly upset by our questions – legitimate as they were. That's just semantics - I really meant the same thing, apologies for the confusion. During both the visits (and I had asked the breeder permission), we had a collection of photos and videos of the puppy, which we proudly showed to our friends - a vet, breeders and some lay people (again these photos will not be posted here as I do not want to discredit the breed or the breeders) and they all felt that he looked unwell. The gunk was not only leaking out of his eyes but the vet noticed that it was also staining the fur around the puppy's eyes - an obvious cause for concern. Nevertheless, we wanted to confirm this with the breeder, since HIS vet had just seen him - that is why we asked our questions. It was discussed but we are still yet to receive it.

Hi Badboyz, Actually we called the breeder to confirm with him the appointment time at least a day in advance and then continued with phone calls to inform him not only when we were leaving, but when we hit the freeway and when we were passing through various major towns – this was in order to convenience the breeder (phone records will show this). One of the towns we passed he said we should be at his place “in half an hour” – on the dot he was right. We were never late, always punctual. In fact, on the second occasion we beat him to his kennels. We waited patiently and were not worried by this as these things happen and we were just too excited to care as we just wanted to see the pup. We had asked him permission to take pictures and video record the puppies playing about which he happily agreed to. The puppy wasn't moving much at all as videos recordings will show but this did not stop us from falling in love with him as we can be heard saying "awww" "he's such a fatty" (a term of endearment)" and laughing at how cute he was. Our videos were mainly of that one puppy, as lethargic as he was because we weren't looking for a show but just to see how much he had changed in 2 weeks. Given that, if he was having a bad day (we understand these do happen), he could have said “No, it’s not a good day today” when we called before we left home or even on the day when we asked about the puppy’s health. In the videos you can even hear him get excited about the puppies, in the background he was cheerful, didn't show any signs of being tired, shared pleasant small talk and even joked with us. You could even say he was possibly holding us back with all that he wanted to tell about that breed and even a breed similar to it - not quite relevant to what we needed to know, but we didn't mind. Excited as we were, we listened carefully - he was definitely not weary talking to "new-over anxious buyers" - this can be backed up by video evidence. He was actually quite polite and friendly with us until the questions were asked. Well said and that is exactly how we are viewing this – as a learning curve.

You are all such fantastic people and such great support! Of course yesterday I was virtually inconsolable as the puppy was taken away from us so suddenly and for no decent reason at all! Now I am feeling very optimistic about getting a new puppy from a decent and honest breeder. I kind of wish that I had met you all before and maybe fallen in love with your breeds of dogs and worked with you instead of this horrible troll of a man! It definitely left a bitter taste in my mouth about breeders but this has been washed out by your kind words!!! To all the breeders who agree that I was RIGHT to ask those questions - THANK YOU, not just from me, but from all potential buyers. I'm sure I'm not the first (and probably won't be the last) person to experience a dodgy breeder so it is great to hear that there are breeders out there like you who are happy for questions to be asked and understand that those questions are only being asked in the best interest of the dog! All breeders should follow your lead Missymoo - You too must have been looking forward to keeping that puppy and it must have been a huge sacrifice for you to offer it to those buyers. This just shows what a kind and generous breeder you are! dancinbcs - The irony is that we chose this breeder BECAUSE of the champion stud that was used at the matings. He is actually one of the best (so I've heard) in the show ring. Obviously he can show a dog, but I question his integrity as a breeder - and as a decent human being for that matter. Dyzney - As a family, we are now taking that optimistic outlook - we have been mourning the loss of this puppy but we are adamant not to let this get us down too much! Again thanks for all your support

lynai - yes we are now starting the process of calling up breeders and finding out more about their ethics and practices before we even think about purchasing from them! leanne - I was in really bad shape yesterday (after that nasty phone call with that breeder) but now I'm looking at the bright side of things - can't imagine how mortified I would have been had we brought him home in such a condition. thanks for your well wishes! shelby - I'm assuming now that he was trying to push the puppy on us and then blame us for taking him away too soon from his mother (in other word's making him less liable for the puppy's ill health) I was quite shocked when we went to see him on Thursday and he told us to pick the pup up on the following Monday...especially since the pup was only getting vaccinated the next day (Friday). I've since been in contact with another breeder who has told me that after vaccinations, puppies are really fragile and need to stay with their mother for at least 10 days following the vaccination just to be safe. I don't know if this is true but if it is then this is another red flag that this breeder is suspicious!

Thank you all for taking the time to leave feedback! As we've been talking about getting a puppy for this long, we knew that we had the right to ask those questions but I didn't think a breeder could take away the puppy from us because we asked them! Clearly not a very good breeder at all! For want of a better word but keeping this PG, he was a very very nasty man and it was almost disgusting the way he treated us. We took 2 drives up to his kennels which were 4 hours return each - we obviously really cared about the puppy and wanted to see his progress. Not to mention all 6 members of my family had already opened their hearts for the puppy's arrival. We now have food bowls that will remain empty for a while, a collar which doesn't belong to a pup yet, a name tag which I feel obligated to change as that name already belonged to the pup we will never get and now have to call up the vet (being responsible owners we made an appt for the puppy for the day we were to receive him) to tell them that we are no longer getting a puppy! SIGH!!! Thanks Leanne - I think we might just wait a while until we are over this disaster of a weekend and properly research the breeders before we get too emotionally invested in the pup! SBT123 - As the breed we are looking for is quite rare, I've looked up a breed club but I don't think we have one in Australia! I've written to the MDBA to ask them about reputable breeders oakeydoak1 - It's such a shame that this has happened before and might happen again! I feel almost as though I should expose this jerk so that no-one will have the chance to feel the heartache we have felt...what a nightmare this has been!

For the purpose of anonymity the breed and breeder will not be disclosed as I'd like some neutral feedback. 4 weeks ago my family and I started looking for puppies from Breed X - this decision we have been making for 3 years now so it was not made lightly. After calling up breeders in Victoria, we had found Breeder Y who had puppies available. Our first visit and having not known us very well, he took our deposit and promised us a puppy. 2 weeks ago we made the 2 hour drive there to visit the puppy but he was still very very small (4.5 weeks old) and wasn't very active. We decided to wait until he was a little more mature. Last Thursday we went to visit the pup again (he'd be around 6 weeks old). We noticed that the puppy was still very much inactive, didn't want to leave the whelping box to play with his siblings (he'd walk back into it as soon as we took him out) and was leaking some strange gunk out of his eyes. The breeder also seemed to be wanting us to pick him up the following week - the puppy would be 7 weeks old ONLY. Naturally we were concerned and after asking around from different local vets, another forum (dedicated to Breed X) and other breeders, our fears were heightened as it seemed the puppy sounded really sick. So we called up the breeder. He was on the defence from the word go and his tone drastically changed with our questions about the puppy. He hung up on us and left the conversation up in the air. We called him back and he would not answer our calls and finally, after ringing from a different number he picked up his phone but was extremely short with us and told us we could not have the puppy. Not because we did not meet any criteria (which he NEVER set) but seemingly because we were asking valid questions. My question to the viewers of this forum are: 1) Are potential owners allowed to ask breeders about the health of a puppy if it seems unwell? 2) Are potential owners allowed to ask breeders about genetic testing of the parents? - The breeder implied genetic testing is not conducted much/if at all in Australia 3) Are breeders allowed to pull back from a sale based on such valid questions? - Please correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't see anything wrong with asking these questions 4) Is there such a thing as a puppy's eyes tearing/leaking because he has "a big head"? - This was the breeders reason before he changed his mind and said "it was dust" 5) Does anyone know how the breeders are ranked on dogzonline? -He was a "blue ribbon" breeder so I presumed he was a reputable breeder but now I am unsure I'd greatly appreciate your feedback Now on the search for a genuinely good (and hopefully HELPFUL AND HONEST) breeder!