Lyla

I will gladly take on anyone's awful, naughty dogs. I have been tempted for weeks to advertise my 20 month old daughter free to good home...or any home. Every day is a new adventure of digustingness and feralness that I have never encountered with my labs. My labs don't open the pantry and empty cereal everywhere despite the doors having been tied shut. My labs don't get poo and rub it into the carpet, put it on their sisters pillow, throw it at the mirror etc etc (every day is a new poo story). My labs don't take my keycard and licence from my wallet and hide them under my laptop, my labs don't get the phone and sit it in a plate of milk. My labs don't turn off the dishwasher every time I turn it on. My labs don't wear 40 sets of clothes a day just for the hell of it. My labs don't open the bird aviary. My labs don't draw on the walls, furniture or car. My labs don't put dead lizards in their shoes and put them in the wardrobe. *sigh* I'll take the naughty dogs any day. At least it is legal to put them outside, lock the door and walk away. So any takers for the human monster????

Try spraying your wooden things with citronella oil. Most dogs do not like this smell, so will keep away from it. It may work for your plants too. Apart from removing everything you don't want destroyed, try giving pup something he really likes to chew over other stuff. One of my lab pups is a chronic chewer, she's 10 months old. She loves to chew, and while she's chewing she's not doing other things like digging or jumping fences. I give her the big ends off the palm trees when they fall off. They take a long time to destroy, gives her something to do, and it prevents her from looking for other stuff to destroy. While I do try to make sure I don't leave things like shoes around for temptation, I have 3 kids who do leave stuff out, and she is much better at leaving their stuff alone now that she knows she is allowed to chew palm fronds to her hearts content. Also try a kong with mince that has been frozen so that it takes longer to eat. BTW, I had a chocolate lab that gradually chewed my black girls wooden kennel into non existence. Started out as corners and edges, pulling planks off etc. I persisted over the months hammering the thing back together, until finally I walked outside one day to be confronted by a small pile of wooden rubble. He had chewed EVERY speck of that wooden kennel into inch size pieces overnight. I could not believe it, as there did not seem to be enough wood there, so whether he actually ate half of it I don't know. Needless to say I learnt my lesson with wooden kennels. Sadly my girl loved her kennel, and was not so happy with the plastic replacement.

She's soooo adorable.

Last night and tonight mine have been going off for no apparent reason. No full moon either.

Forgot to add: I have heard (I think from the lab thread), that Guide dogs prefer the finer style of lab, because they need to be able to fit on the floor space in the front of a car when they are companion / work dogs.

They are not continual houdini's. All of the dogs live together, and if 1 of the dogs is taken away then this has happened. The mother of the pup has been living inside as she had stitches, so pup escaped to try and see mum. I had been allowing them some time together, but generally kept them separated to avoid the usual zoomies until mum had stitches out. Mum has not jumped the fence for a long while, and when she was doing it it was because of a similar reason. So I do not consider that loving playful labs have temperament problems because they have the ABILITY to jump the fence when they want to see what's going on with a family member. Anyway the point of mentioning this was more to do with a dog from show lines can have a sporting potential (in this case). This may be the case in other circumstances.

This is also something I had been thinking about due to some points brought up in the other thread. My point is in reference to Labs, and what I say are OBSERVATIONS only. I don't consider myself an expert, but I SEE different "styles" of Lab who are both lovely specimens, have been titled, so therefore must conform to the breed standard. Style 1: This dog is more heavyset (for lack of a better word), has a lot of bone, and his tail is very thick and otter like (B.S. term). He is also internationally titled in several countries, has an enormous list of successful offspring, and I would think is thought very highly of world wide. I will not mention names tho Lab people will know him, sorry for using the pic off the owners website, but couldn't make my point in words alone. Style 2: Please refer to the breed pages of DOL and look at pics of Aust Ch Labs (so I don't offend people or steal pics). Generally they have a bit of a different look, not quite as thick and heavy, tails not as thick, of course not all Ch Labs fit the description. All I am saying is that Labs in Australia as an overall picture tend to be a bit finer than the dog in pic 1. My point is though that there are many judges who have all thought that these dogs had something to offer, were good examples of the breed, and accumulated enough points to get their titles. One would assume that they all fit into the breed standard in some way as well, despite looking very different. As for performance, I can't comment there except in reference to my own dogs. My girl is the daughter of a show titled dog with a string of show titles behind him. Would she win in the ring? No, BUT I think she would be a whizz in agility due to the fact that she clears fences with ease, and is known for escaping 7 foot high enclosures. Yesterday her 8 month old daughter exhibited the same thing, shocking me that she escaped over a 5 foot fence. She did it twice, as now she knows she can do it. These dogs were not bred from working lines, but I think they would be better suited to sporting. My other pup was bred from dogs who were trained to retrieve game from water. I see this trait in her, I think she thinks she's a duck sometimes the way she dives under water, and she is much more scent oriented and independent than the others. They still act and look like labs despite their differences.

:rolleyes: sorry cant help you out there.... good luck though ;) ;) No creative suggestions? Looks like I'm stuck with another Dobe, then. :D Ditto. will swap broken husband for another GSP....any takers? Mine's broken too......but another one I do not need! OK - I'll swap him for the Dobe above. Can I swap mine for a lappie puppy, cream female preferable But will consider all reasonable offers... Even FTGH.... ;) ;)

Congrats to everyone on all the new babies.

Yes, I have a dog yard. I live on a small acreage where there are no boundary fences. The nieghbours like that there are no fences as the kids and grandkids can wander between our yards to play without being near a road. Our dogs, who ARE pets, were initially in a very large courtyard off the back of the house which is enclosed by lattice. Due to the fact that there are people who live in the area that have not bothered to desex their male dogs, and let them wander the streets, there have been a few times that we have found that these dogs have jumped the fence to get in with our girl while she was in season. After removing the dogs and contacting owners who said they don't know how to control their own dogs, we felt that the best and safest option was to get a dogyard built. Not so much to contain our dogs, but to keep OUT other peoples. Just because there is a dog yard does not mean that the dogs are shoved in there and forgotten about 24/7, and it is plenty big enough that when they are in there they can easily play "zoomies". We spend a great deal of time outside, so when we are out so are the dogs. They also get to play with the neighbours dogs regularly. My dogs play with my kids everyday, as well as the neighbours kids, they get walked up to the school to pick up my daughter and get millions of pats from all the kids, we sold both of our cars and bought 2 cars that would be dog friendly so we could take them down to the river for plays. They still spend time on the back verandah during the day so they are near us most of the time. We do not go on holidays because we have the dogs to look after. BUT, they do not live inside, so I am accused of having breeding machines instead of pets. My baby has ended up with bruises because 4 big dogs do not even realised that they have knocked her over when they clambour around together being silly. When I had 1 dog it lived inside. For OUR family 4 dogs inside does not work. I am sure that I am not the only one who has an outside dog or a dog yard. Point 2: I spoke to a breeder who has bred for over 40 years, and used to show a lot in the early days, but left due to the "politics and attitudes" of some. She assured me that a male lab who was not an exact match to the height criteria would not be an automatic disqualification in the ring, so therefore this would not disqualify him for breeding. He has plenty of other traits which are worthy. I am sure not every dog is perfect in every way. If there were a different dog of the correct height, but his topline could be better, does this mean he shouldn't be bred? So to address your point, I think that if 2 dogs are mated and the resulting pups are better than their parents, then it is bettering the breed. But, you wont know until it has happened. Two great dogs does not always equal great offspring. Point 3: I have only ever had 1 choc to choc litter, after a lot of research before this mating. Shoot me because I thought the male was impressive and god forbid he was that colour. BTW half of NSW has also used this same stud dog with their chocolate bitches. Are they going to be condemned for it? This also includes some show breeders. I would be interested to know his height as I would be surprised if he was only 56-57 cm. So yes, my website said I breed chocolate puppies as that was the case. Why did I breed this litter? Because I wanted a puppy with the lineage she has. Will she be any good? We will have to wait and see as she is still growing. Point 4: Three litters next year? Maybe. As my 2 bitches will be hip and elbow scored later this year, that will determine half of that. Next year both of them will be 2. Labs can be bred at 1, so if I were just after puppy money those dogs would be bred this year. But they wont be. Every decent breeder I have ever spoken to or emailed recommends 3rd season if you feel they are ready. So approx 18 months to 2 years. Maybe those who show wait an extra season if their girl is doing well in the ring? I am already thinking about suitable matches for them, and it is a year away. I will not automatically use the boy I own. As for my other girl, in a years time we would look at breeding her. She will be 4 1/2. We'll see what happens between now and then. No point hanging me for something that may never eventuate. So in theory there could be 3 litters, or maybe there will be none, like this year. Maybe some "approved" lab breeders could verify the ethics of an acceptable breeding age? (there is currently a thread on this anyway). And why do I breed? Why do most people breed? Because they love the dogs, they love the puppies, they hope that they can be clever enough to create something great from their matings, they feel satisfaction at the love and adoration of the owners to their new puppies. To make money? Hell no. I'd be a lot better off financially if I didn't own dogs and just got a real job. Flossie: great work reading every thread I ever wrote to try and find out who I was so you could google me. Instead of twisting little words to mean bad things maybe people could ask for clarification rather than assume I abuse dogs because a word like dogyard was used in some other thread I posted to someone else.

My point exactly. Despite anything I have said you are making assumptions that I mistreat my breed purely because I don't show. Not showing does not mean you do not comply with breed standards. Still don't get why you are bringing up your parents??

Well I have found the Uncle Albers to be great for my boy who I was feeding truckloads to keep weight on him. Highly recommend it! By far the best dry food of the cheaper ones, and contains less of the fillers etc. My girl doesn't like it though. Waiting for the GB to come into stock to try that.

Congratulations, but at the end of the day if I was looking for a lab I would be getting one from proven show lines or field lines depending what I wanted the dog for. I don't think you a BYB nor do I think you are wrong breeding your dogs however I personally would not recommend to people I know to buy a pup from a registered breeder who does nothing show/sports wise with thier dogs with the exception being cases like RnL where the people live in remote areas. It has very little to do with you or the dogs but more to do with trust, I don't trust people, words come easy, title certifcates, written crituqes, inviting me to come meet your dogs at a show/trail and see them in action, now that can't be fake. Just because my name is on their pedigree does not change their heritage.

Well if I am considered a BYB, then so be it. I have people that bought puppies from my first litter a few years ago who I still have regular email contact with. They keep me updated, ask for advise when necessary, and give me info they think I could benefit from. (Which I am happy to accept) One has even travelled 3 hours to come and visit me, let her dog visit his mum, and let me see in person how the pup is going. This dog has been used as the example dog at training courses, and used as a vet nurses subject for her assignments. This to me indicated that the pup did have something special to offer, and therefore I had done something right. I also think that when people stay in contact that it also means you are doing something right. I am grounded enough to know that I don't know everything. But I don't ever pretend that I do. That is why I research, ask questions, contact breeders (of the ones who can be bothered to spare me 2 mins), visit the websites of titled breeders etc. I may not be show savvy, but I still know what a level topline is.

BUT, would this be ok if all of them were on the show scene? ETA: Yes it does seem alot though. How many breeds?

In your opinion you might be breeding to the standard. But how the heck do you really know? You are not being assessed against your peers. You live 750k away from dog shows. How do you manage to compare and learn being so isolated and not seeing other whippets? I travel the world looking and learning. I am not elitist. I just want to educate myself. I am second generation in my breed and have been in it for over 40 years but still marvel in how much I still learn. Why not just buy yourself a quality Whippet from a good breeder. Why do you need your own bloodlines? What is the purpose? It makes no sense to me. Thats why we use the internet. Not everyone can duck overseas everytime they feel like it. And who decides who is good enough, or should or shouldn't breed? I am sure the breed would suffer greatly if the breeders of the top couple of show dogs were the only ones allowed to produce puppies. The gene pool would be pretty limited in a short amount of time.

No I don't show as it wouldn't be physically possible to at the moment, BUT I had intended to become involved in obedience or similar once my kids were a bit older and all at school. Hopefully by then I would have a dog of the quality and ability to do this, as the dogs I have are from working parents. It seems though, because I do not have a show ring name, that I am a money grabbing, BYB'ing puppy mill with sub standard conditions. If this was really my aim, why would I bother being registered? Pet owners don't generally give a hoot about papers. I certainly am not breeding aimless litter after litter, 3 litters ever actually. I also strongly recommend puppy buyers enrooling in puppy classes in order to avoid them ending up in shelters. Why would i also have joined this forum if I did not give a shit? It would be much easier to join the thousands of Petlink ads if this was all I was after. I had a passion for the dogs. I had a long term plan. But I wonder if it would even be possible to get anywhere longterm when there are so many prejudices and judgements thrown at me while I am trying to learn. Surely the learning continues over many years, no one could essentially know everything. Why crush people who are trying to make the effort to be doing the right thing? My aim was not an argument of show dogs vs work dogs, or anything similar. It was a genuine question from someone in the early years with a long term plan, wanting to learn as much as possible while enjoying my breed. I did not realise that the politics went so deep as to label someone a BYBer or random puppy producer because everything hasn't pulled together in 5 minutes.

And still no one has adressed the other points I raised eg: ethics, welfare, scrutiny at homing a puppy, etc... Does no one think these things count? Aren't these the things that are meant to distinguish ethical registered breeders from BYB?

Exactly. This thread wasn't meant to be showies vs non showies. All I am saying is that not showing does not automatically exclude your dogs from having quality, which you have proved in your case.

Interesting point! I wondered if those with a well known name who show frequently would be favoured over others, especially unknowns. At the end of the day the judges are human, and the winner is the dog they like. Under a different judge with a different perception, that same dog may not have won. There is no black and white checklist, it is interpretation.

I cannot find anywhere where I have said that I don't like the breed standard, and nor do I breed to them. Nor have I said that I mate my dog to any old dog. YOU are making the assumption that because someone doesn't show that they are clueless and ignorant. Big deal if you win shows. At no point have you mentioned anything about the care and well being of your dogs or the placement of puppies. I am looking at the overall picture. If you think that breed standard and showing is all that counts, does that mean that if the dogs were kept in a questionable way at home, but had a level of success in the ring, then thats good enough for you? I would think not. There are other factors. I know of one breeder who breeds within the guidelines, and only uses lines from a certain show kennel, yet these people breed litter on top of litter, year round. Does that make a good breeder because their dogs look right? I also don't see your point about bagging my kids, and telling me how great your parents are. How would you know what my situation is anyway? Off topic.

I did think that out of this exercise I would have gained more than "my dogs must be crap because I haven't paid someone to tell me otherwise". I also thought that there might be other things that came into consideration' eg: * breeder ethics / intention to do the right thing * happiness of the dog / family interaction * living conditions of the dog * researching pedigrees and complimentary matches for breeding * providing an accurate information on the breed, and educating puppy owners on the reality of breed traits * health screening for breeding plus usual vet visits * appropriate diet for the individual dogs * "after sales service" etc, etc... Surely adhering to breed standard is only a basis, and not the only relevant criteria. I don't think I have "kennel blindness" as I don't own half a dozen dogs bred by myself. I only have one. I consider that she is a better example of the breed than her mother, and isn't that what we are aiming for? For many months I didn't think this pup was going to be any good, but at 8 months old she is beginning to come out of her "ugly teenage" phase, and has some lovely traits. If anything I think I am over critical. I do not look at them and see perfection, I see their good points and I see what could be better. For those who are not in the show scene, the best they can do is ask for advice, visit the "good" breeders websites to see what an acceptable specimen looks like, and try to keep learning, as I believe that no one knows everything. I do find it difficult when you are shunned purely because you aren't in the gang, despite whatever else is going on, or however good your intentions are. It might get more people in the ring if they were not written off before they have even been given a chance.

Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't quite understand what a "dudley nose" is. I did google it, but ended up more confused than ever! Is it pink and other colour nose? Or just a nose of light and dark colour? I have heard the term in relation to SBT, and have always wondered what it was. Thanks in advance. Yes, you are correct. Yellow labs should have black noses and eye rims. Dudleys are pink.

I am a judge Every single Breed that I have owned over the years I have judged over the years. This is my opinion(obviously) I am not saying that those who dont show are nut cases. But yes many do lose the plot. There are many Bulldog breeders out there who do not show. They have no idea what they are doing within their breeding program and generally dont give a damn what they are doing to the breed. Have I made it pretty clear now? But if you breed AND show, couldn't that mean that you may (not saying will) favour dogs that are like your own, rather than others? Just a thought. And yes, you have made it clear. I am not a nut case, but will inevitably lose the plot because I don't show my dogs. If you or anyone else would like to volunteer to come and look after my 3 young kids some afternoons and weekends, I would gladly take my dogs to training, and weekend shows. At least that would prove that I do "give a damn about what I am doing to my breed". I separated from my first hubby, raised a young child by myself and showed dogs. My parents had us three kids under 10 and showed dogs and did so for many years. And of course you favour dogs that are like your own. Because you have bred to a certain type. It is peoples interpretation of the breed standards which determines the type of dog they favour. "Either a person has an eye for a dog or they dont regardless of whether or not they show" 3 kids is a thousand times more work than one. Especially when one is still a baby. And when you do try to stay in the loop and get advice from people who are fortunate enough to be able to do a variety of things ie showing and breeding, they just turn their noses up at you. Sorry for not making the cut, and I better write my dogs off too, because if they haven't been in the show ring they mustn't be worth squat.