ima barka

http://www.southernpryde.com/ for jackie_1 Maybe you should do some extra research. Or maybe tell these people their bully breed pits don't rate as pits. they claim they are P.Bs. They are sold as & accepted as P.Bs by those who want them. Different people, different locales, different variations of the ''breed'' producing even more different variations. They are all accepted at the UKC, the original & much quoted, P.B. ''pure breed'' register as P.Bs As so it goes. The circle shall not be broken, yet never the twain shall meet. Is there a problem here? You betcha. added. If you really are so brave & really do want to stand tall & fight for your breed, if you want the public to see your breed in a positive light, deliberately hiding from the public & misrepresenting it as a registered pure breed that it isnt, is not really all that brave or convincing if really want to know.

WOW, now hold up. Fairy tails, spinning heritage? Honestly who do you think you are talking like this. You talk about you business not being successful and you come on here and blame it on the APBT. You need to be spending more time on the books then whinging on the internet. And you see dogs in paddocks with chains, Anyone who knows anything about an APBT would know how to contain these dogs properly, and Tethering is quite popular among people in the U.S. Hence you saw these pictures on Google because i guarantee you have never been within 5 meters of a real bulldog let alone an APBT. Give up were here to stay. Gee whiz, to think I didn't know the best way to restrain a loving family companion was to tether it to a massive bollard with a huge chain in the middle of an open paddock. What a silly sausage. How could I have missed one. However, that apart, on the contrary, I am in close proximity to REAL bulldogs, British Bulldogs, not the x pitty kind, & REAL APBTs ever time I attend a dog show. Real REAL ones. Is it the same knuckle draggers responsible for the ''reputation'' of your breed that are now responsible for the obnxious masquarading of the APBT as Amstaffs & x Staffords? They are very naughty aren't they? & plentiful it would seem. They must be everywhere. Your words certainly have a Brothers Grimm ring to them tho. Do you have a publisher? Fact is - Without the APBT there would be no BSL. The dog was sought for its reputation, it fulfilled its reputation & now it is paying for its actions. Boofheads or not. If they can ever get them from down the back of the bus where they are pushing others forward that is. You're here to stay? Good, I hope you are. I honestly mean that. I just wish you had a better strategy than smoke & mirrors tho. Couldn't you disguise yourselves as something other than the bona fide, registered, pure breed, world renowned, much loved, peoples dog? You lot are causing us serious grief.

Thanks ima i appreciate your post, i think had there not been that surge to go bigger ie the american bully we may have seen them in a registry. But i also feel all the registries so desperatey want to stay away from the tarnished pitbull, they don't want to lose members because there's a pitbull in the ranks.. the pitbulls history is exactly why the AKC named them the Amstaff, so they woudn't be linked to the 'fighting dog', (along with the standard but i'll get to that) and thats why many registries wont have them, it's not because they can't prove there size etc.. i've read a few pitbull standards and they're all pretty much the same, and most reputable breeders try to achive that, all the monster short wide dogs wouldn't get a look in, I know the UKC has a few but that is selective breeding at its worst, the UKC also has some great dogs. I've seen 40+kg registered pure bred amstaffs, along side 15" tall 15kg amstaffs, now tell me it has something to do with all being different to each other and not the fact that the people running these clubs don't want them. i think any club president who wanted pitbulls in their register would be ousted pretty quick. Maybe. But I don't completely agree. It's just my (educated) opinion, but I consider the lack of uniformity in a breed conformation for the APBT was the main reason for its rejection as a pure breed by the AKC. If you can't make it onto your country of origins register it's all over for the rest of the world. The American Bully is simply the renaming of one of strains previous regarded as the APBT. & probably only by one or two ''clubs'' anyhow. There any plenty of ''fighting breeds'' listed on affilated pure breed registeries. The Akita & Chow Chow for instance. The common denominator being they breed to type. No matter where you are on the planet, they a recognisable. Even the Boston terrier had a turn in the pits. The APBT & SBT had the same beginnings. Some of the Ancestors of the SBT went to the USA while the rest stayed home. The ancestors of the SBT were still being used in the pits as late as the 1930s even tho ''Bloodsports'' were outlawed in 1835. So the ''staffies'' fighting history is really relatively modern history. The advantage the staffy had over the pitbull was it was still pretty much confined to it's area of origin, just three counties in the Black Country & so was less likely to be polluted by other breeds & remained '' typey'' (pure) No so the pit bull. Where ever they ended up was where they evolved & tho they didn't all evovle the same they were still called pit bulls. Nothing has changed.. You only need to stroll along the beachfront at Venice Calif to see the different pit bulls the ''homies'' have in tow. Everyone different, everyone a pit bull . Those who think the ANKC folk have just abandoned all non registered dogs should put themselves in our shoes. Especially those of the AST & the SBT people. When the BSL hit the most constructive/destructive thing to occur, depending on your p.o.v was the APBT people simply renamed their dogs. Am Staffs or Staffy crosses. Now we are copping the crap. Do people really think the staffy rocketing up the bite stats chart is because the registered pure bred staffy has suddenly cut loose & gone feral? There are imposters about. & they want our help while they flush our breeds down the toilet. While the APBT is now the victim of its previously cultivated reputation, we are now actually victims of the APBT, & we are even more vunerable because we have no one to hide behind. Our fight is real. Our fight is all we can handle for the moment. When it's done & won, we can turn our attention to what ever else needs doing. Until then, wish US luck.

I do need to answer this. If you read my posts & comprehend them you will see that I don't deny APBTs are ''pure breeds'' but what I have said is they are not recognised pure breeds because they don't have a bona fide standard. There are so many different versions of the same dog they cant possibly meet the criterior for inclusion onto a internationally accredited pure breed register. One of many criterium for a breed to be declared as ''pure'' requires the breeding to a set type, without variation, for five consectutive generations. There are plenty of APBTs that would answer that criterior. But they are all different to each other. Which is the kicker. Amstaffs & APBT are the same breed. Only difference is the APBT, renamed as the Am Staff has answered all the criterium & been admitted to the register. The APBT people say they don't care, but in reality they would give their left bicycle wheel to be on it. Their right bicycle wheel to be able to show off their breed to the world at Westminister or Crufts & their children to win Best In Terrier Group at either or. Edit to answer the above. The ANKC is a pure breed register & has no need to distance itself from the APBT because it doesn't fall under the registered pure breed banner. ANKC members are in fact urging their state affiliates to distance themselves from the RSPCA. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier has been under the pump ever since the BSL was enacted due to sudden upsurge in staffy x's. Or, as they are in the real world, PBs in staffy clothing. You might wonder why the bull breeds don't want be assocciated with you? Because of your dishonesty toward their breeds, the disregard for the heritage of those breeds & the trust of the public that has been hard won over many, many years. The real fear is your deception will eventually pull innocent breeds down into the morass you created.

ima, the BSL picture is bigger than that of just the pitbull, this is what i'm trying to get across. You can argue that it's not a pure breed, but then you'd be saying that amstaffs are also not a pure breed..? I was of the understanding that many many years of registered bloodlines, papered pedigrees would make them a pure breed. (hey i could be wrong). What on earth do you think they are if they're not purebred? you think that millions of dogs that look the same is just a coincidence? Oh the AKC wouldn't buckle but they'll open the stud books to them!!! Anyway i really don't care that your think they're not purbred, it's really not the issue on this part of the forum, and it doesn't bother me one little bit if i had a mongrel cross or a purebred. I'd just like to get everyone against BSL. Misquoted yet again. Talk about your so called ''standard'' if you wish to chastise me. That is where I say your ''pure breed'' argument falls apart. That & the b.s. the P.B. people like to spin about its heritage of course. Fairy tales wont help your cause. Neither will I until my recognised, registered pure breeds business is successfully concluded. We are struggling to fend off the crap you have dumped on us you see. You do what need to do. No problem. As long as it doesn't infinge on the safety or reputation of registered pure breeds, go for it. You could begin by calling them APBTs in public & registering them as such, rather than ASTs or x staffies for a start. That would be good. That would at least be honest. That would be a change for the better. While you're here tho, can you tell me why so many pictures of the APBT show them in aggresive postures? & what's with the pics of dogs in open paddocks secured to huge bollards by massive chains? Surely not a good look for the promotion of a family friendly, companion dog? That was the preferred image pre B.S.L. but isn't it time to put that cue in the rack. Also, how many APBT owners here now fully comply with the laws required for the keeping of the breed? Hands up. Any?

I didn't realise Sorry.

Waverley council is lobbying the NSW government to legislate for compulsory insurance be introduced for the owners of ''dangerous breeds''. The breeds mentioned on the news were Pit Bull (naturally, as if they would know one if they fell over it) American Staffordshire Terrier ( thank you Qld) Australian Cattle Dog German Shepherd Dog. That's all for now, but ''Watch This Space'' You can bet your ass this explode if passed. The insurance companies will see a bonanza for the taking.. The Mother Lode.

Amstaff without papers is a Pit Bull. Sad but true.

Two farmers. One industrious, the other a bit of a muck up. Weather bureau issues a severe weather warning. Industrious heads to his tractor, muck up heads to the pub. When muck up finally realises how bad this storm is, he rings his mate ''Indi, help me save my crop'' ''Sure mucky, just as soon as I have finished saving mine''

In a threatening situation involving ''family'' Secure your position, save your own first. Anyone have a problem with that? For all those spruiking how old the APBT breed is, the dogs your are talking about are actually the ancestors of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier brought over from the U.K. by English immigrants., the Americans merely gave them a ''local'' name. Pit dog pit bul & many variations on the themel. Most of the APBT ''hero'' dogs are of the same lineage. Staffies wrapped in the Stars & Stripes. As was Pete the Pup. But a question that does perplex me. If indeed the breed has been around since the 1700's (that's a joke...right?) & is Americas favouite dog, why hasn't it ever been recognised as a pure breed? Surely after 300 years someone would have got it right by now. Don't mention the the UKC either, it was raised as pit bull registry because the AKC, with good reason, wouldn't buckle & give the pit bull pure breed status. Chauncy Bennett wanted a fancy pedigree paper for his dog so he started his own registery. & a profitable BIG business it is and all. That doesn't mean Bennets Ring wasn't a ''pure breed''. Probably was. But rather the breed as a whole, has so many different variationa it didn't qualify as a legitimate PURE breed. Still doesn't. & the rest of the so called registries are only self interested clubs, so don't bother spinning them out either.

if you actually read my footnote you will see i do think there are enclaves of pure breed APBTs. The problem, to my way of thinking, is there is no real standard that defines them ALL as a recognisable breed. Except for the AST of course. There are so many different ''varieties'', all claiming to be pure breeds, all accepted onto the various ''registers'' as such, How can you really expect any rational, knowledgable dog person to take the ''pure breed'' claim seriously. Or rather, pure breed, bred to a standard. Check this out, one denying the other. Fatties that are someones idea of the pit bull, the others are the border line emaciated ''sports models." ''Pure breeds'' ? I bet all the breeders say "Mine is''. Only one handsome speciman among them, & that could be an AST anyhow. They are duel registered at the UKC. The claytons register. The rest are bloody awful when you get right down too it. Turn the sound on. BTW, I don't have Amstaffs. Just thought I'd better clear that up.

I cannot belive you doubt the fact that it is a pure bred dog, and standards are just something to aim for when people are breeding, judges all judge differently and their opinions vary greatly... do you forget that the Amstaff standard was based on a Colby dog, one of the oldest bloodlines in pitbull history is the standard for the Amstaff..!!! are you going to say that only an amstaff is pure because the ANKC says so, and forget the UKC, AKC, ADBA, APBR etc.. sure there are dubious breeders out there and it's these people that have been the downfall of the breed not the dog. it has never been the dogs fault, but human mistreatment. Shame on you for blaming a dog for all of our dog woes. An apology, how rude, if it wasn't for all the elitest snobs in 'dogdom' we could've fought this a long time ago, but no they all wantedto wash their hands of the 'pitbull'. Maybe you should re read my comments. You have gone off half cocked accusing me of things I haven't said. What I have said is what I believe. What I have said is fact. If being a ANKC registered breeder/owner/exhibitor that resents my breed being place at risk because of the anti social behavior of a group of yobbos who besmirched the entire canine community with their anti social dogs makes me an elitist snob. So be it. Stay off the tracks, there's a train coming. It's the pit bull special & it doesn't care who it runs over.

Reading the first post did rekindle memories of my first awareness of the APBT. I do recall the sudden prominence of the breed. I do recall it being promoted solely & blatanly as a the baddest of the bad asses & I do recall the seemingly implausible prices being demanded, & apparently achieved. I also remember the almost daily expansion of column inches in the for sale sections of the classifieds & wondering where did all these dogs come from? If you believe these were all ethical responsible breeder ads you must also believe in the tooth fairy. & I remember the trickle turning to a torrent of dog attacks attributed to these dogs. Not just run of the mill dog bite stories on page 16. Front page banners of prolonged, vicious attacks that left people & animals severely injured &, sadly, some fatal. It wasn't unusal for the victims to be the dogs owner or a family member. Whether these were fair & unbias accounts is immaterial, these dogs were now firmly implanted in the publics psyche as demons. A runaway train was in motion. I also remember the warnings given by the applying of restriction for the keeping of this breed. All of which were ignored. I didn't, in my wildest dreams, envisage anything as obnoxious as a B.S.L however. But given the luxury of hindsight, I guess it really was inevitable. Now the rant, As a breeder/owner/exhibitor of recognised, registered pure breeds I feel no obligation to link arms with for what all intents & purposes is the ''breed'' responsible, stand on the tracks & defy this runaway train called the B.S.L. My first obligation is to ANKC registered pure breeds. Once our position is secure & our charges are safe, then we can turn our energies to a derailment. I know this line of thought isn't P.C. here but it is honest. & ''we'' really don't deserve the guilt trip being laid on ''us'' over this issue either, rather, ''we'' deserve an apology for the aggravation now being felt right across dogdom. Footnote. You can argue that APBTs are a pure breed until you are blue in face. But the fact is it's not recognised by any bona fide, internationally recognised, affiliated pure breed registry in the world. Not even it's country of origins. My opinion as to why, for what it's worth, is because it really doesn't have a legitmate standard. A standard that actually defines it as a stand alone breed. There is no doubt there criterior meeting pure breeds are out there, but, depending where you are they can vary by 40cms in height & 40 kgs in weight & still be accepted as ''Pure Breed APBTs." Which is ridiculous, in a bona fide pure breed sense. Another footnote. When I read some of the so called history of the APBT offered here the words of the song "'It Necessarily So" boom out in background. Consider the possibility Did the Americans renamed the original ''staffy'', brought to their shores by English immigrants, as the APBT, & the APBT people then renamed the APBT as the Staffordshire Terrier to gain AKC registration & the AKC then renamed the Staffordshire Terrier as the American Staffordshire Terrier to distigquish it from the SBT. Absolutely - full circle.