Wags

Yes, you can sometimes see the eyes glaze over and the brick wall being built in front of you, yet they're the ones most likely to be on a registered breeder's waiting list with a tale of woe in the future. Honestly the number of shocking stories from clients who have been down this road, and with backyard breeders and puppy farmers, is heartbreaking. What upsets me most is the quality of life the puppies are presented with through indiscriminant breeding. The families have the opportunity of making an informed choice, but the puppies are not given any choice. In the old days most people had little heinz breeds running around the neighbourhood and desexing wasn't necessarily thought of as a natural process in owning a pet (I am quite long in the tooth I should advise). Because it was then more normal to allow pet dogs to run free and take their chances on the roads, to some degree, natural attrition did tend to produce hardy little dogs. BUT, with all the regulations we are now under when owning a pet, partbred breeding is much more controlled and subject to the ethics and discrimination of the breeder, whoever the breeder is and whether the breeding is intentional or not. Now that's a different matter altogether. Having explained the lack of natural attrition, I then point out to clients that no responsible registered breeder is going to let his/her dogs be used for partbred breeding, therefore the dogs used for oodle and other partbred breeding are going to be inferior in the first place, in any or every way, then two inferior dogs are being used to breed their beloved oodles which vastely increases the chances of having physical, mental or any other health problems or indeed problems. I have to admit that the majority see the logic and at least think about what I'm saying. If they choose to discount this information, then they are making an informed decision to go down a track which will very possibly see them waiting on a registered breeders list for a decent puppy in the future. We have done what we can do to try to assist them.

I wouldnt take that much notice of what breeders who havent joined have to say. Ask the ones who have and also understand that they will be promoting this to puppy buyers and regardless of what the breeders who dont or cant join have to say that may just make the difference. If you are concerned about what other breeders might think of you if you do - forget that they will find numerous other things whether you're in or out. Its nice to know the difference between me being ethical and unethical is simply $22. :rolleyes: What a crock!!!!!! Yes Jed - I agree that you can't make people change their ethics unless they choose to, however, there is nothing wrong in creating a system which highlights those with ethics in order to give the general public a measure. The focus on the (incorrect) fee as a means to accreditation means that the person doing so hasn't fully taken on board the requirements of accreditation, but hey, if they choose not to do so, it is their bag. The application is not the entire scheme - it is merely entry into it. If the breeders of long standing who believe they're the ants pants are too high and mighty for screening, then perhaps they're a little afraid they might be nudged off their pedestals, instead of seeing it as confirmation of what they're claiming. I can only repeat my previous quote.

Frankly, I disagree. Those that are choosing to ignore standards or wrought the system are those who are most likely to be negative towards an accreditation scheme, because it creates transparency and accountability. Those that are wanting to do the right thing and willing to learn and improve are the ones receptive to being screened which is what an accreditation scheme is all about. The State register will make breeders traceable and accountable - it may not be perfect, but it is more proactive than cynicism and negativity ;)

I've only just seen this thread. I agree that the majority of Queensland breeders haven't taken up the accreditation scheme, but more are trickling in. The scheme is more than paying additional fees and begins with a self-assessment requirement to be effected by the breeder. It includes references and provision of information and site visits are part of the accreditation scheme. In fact it is very similar to the care industy's accreditation scheme for aged care which I worked in for some years. It does make the breeder 'accountable' which in my mind is a wonderful thing. Dogs Queensland, with the introduction of our new General Manager, have instigated quite a few innovative systems which not only monitor Queensland registered breeders, but make them more accountable. A survey is sent to each new puppy registered owner. The receipt of the form is chased up and each form is coded to identify the breeder. The questions asked are extensive and aimed at ensuring that correct practices are maintained. Dogs Queensland are also working with the State Government in regard to a breeder register for any (registered or unregistered) breeders. It will become law in Queensland that anyone who breeds any dog, whether on purpose or by accident, will be required to be registered, the puppies registered on the state register, microchipped and the breeders details placed on the microchip records. No puppy will be allowed to be sold, anywhere, without being microchipped and thereby registered. The backyard, puppy farmers and people who 'just want to have a litter, or have some puppies to raise' will lose anonimity and have to be accountable. There will also be requirements in regard to health check, care of the dogs and puppies etc. The RSPCA and dog fraternities are also involved in setting up systems and requirements. I'm guessing and hoping that breeders registered with Dogs Queensland will have their number incorporated into the State register as we don't need anymore paperwork if we can help it. It is intended that the state register is in operation by mid-2011. With the introduction of the state register, the term 'registered breeder' will become quite confusing I should imagine and achieving accreditation will assist in establishing a difference. It is generally found that breeders emphasising 'purebred' are unregistered and their dogs are also in the main unregistered. The general public aren't aware of this in many cases and think they are getting a good quality dog which is questionable as is the dog's heritage and health. Council registration can also be referred to as 'registration', and again the general public doesn't necessarily know the difference. The number of times I have gone so far as describing ANKC registration papers to clarify this point. While confusion in terms will continue, I personally believe that the instigation of a register for any and all dog breeders and the resultant puppies and restricting sales to registered puppies only by law is a fabulous innovation as is the accreditation scheme to keep breeders on their toes and accountable. I'm hoping like mad that all states prick their ears up and take example of Dogs Queensland and the Qld State Government.

When they're working, yes, but they break-down often. We found the best thing to do was to put an electric fence about 4 inches from the ground around the perimeter of our yard(s) - it happily fries snakes and cane toads. One just has to remove carcasses regularly to ensure the fence isn't shorting. The only time we've had a problem is when the fence isn't working. We've also introduced Guinea Fowl and chooks who help with these vermin, plus ticks (not to mention create exciting entertaiment for the canine family). We live in Qld so desparate measures had to be taken. How do Guinea fowl and chooks help with keeping snakes away?? And would anyone know why I've had to start a new topic to reply? Each time I hit reply button at end of someones post I am told error don't have permission . Guinea Fowl, particularly, are great bug hunters (so are chooks, but GF are more efficient) and tend to cut the tick population down, particularly at the nymph stage. When we moved where we are it was rampant with ticks, and we lost two dogs, had several more in hospital, despite collars, spot ons etc. Since we've had our GF and chook population roaming the house yard and into the surrounding paddocks the problems have almost disappeared, with one or two tiny little ticks found since. GF are also great snake predators and will gang up and kill snakes, making quite a racket in the process. They call them the 'gardeners friend' for these reasons, but we call them the canine's friend.

When they're working, yes, but they break-down often. We found the best thing to do was to put an electric fence about 4 inches from the ground around the perimeter of our yard(s) - it happily fries snakes and cane toads. One just has to remove carcasses regularly to ensure the fence isn't shorting. The only time we've had a problem is when the fence isn't working. We've also introduced Guinea Fowl and chooks who help with these vermin, plus ticks (not to mention create exciting entertaiment for the canine family). We live in Qld so desparate measures had to be taken.

Absolutely !!!! If a litter comes along and runs smoothly, one tends to be looking over a shoulder waiting for the ogre to appear - is this really happening? Even with this occurring, a minimum of $1,000 would be a conservative estimate of the costs involved. The focus is generally on the mother and her puppies costs, but one forgets to allow for the fact that all adult dogs, youngsters coming up, baby puppies that have been kept, all need ongoing feeding, care, innoculations, housing and on and on. And, if we received payment for our time and stress (yes, it's very stressful, at every stage) - well we probably would make a bit of money. Anyone who believes that breeders are pricing their puppies too high and are 'in it for the money' can't seriously be breeding is all I can say. One occassionally has a little extra to spend and the first priority is always something you've been wanting to get for the dogs - not the household or yourself - the dogs. The long-term breeders are really those that enjoy what they're doing.

IMHO I don't think you need to,they are not remotely interested in how much it has cost you, only of how much (less they can get you down)it will cost them.....gees if they only knew how much out of pocket we are.Most would think ....just let them mate and we are making a fortune. You would be on the phone for hours justifying the costs.Don't fret we all get these calls,then along comes the buyers that do appreciate costings & really want one and pay what you are asking. Oh dear, another bargain shopper who believes they're doing us a favour in taking a puppy off our hands and ought to be discounted for their goodness. Anyone buying a puppy on the basis of 'price' and shows little, if any, interest in the breed, the puppy or has the attitude of one shopping at Crazy Clarke's has very short shift from us I'm afraid. The ones that want to argue the case are the worse.

Websites are a good starting point, but a schmick website doesn't mean a good breeder. What is in the shop window isn't necessarily what is behind the counter. A breeder can say ANYTHING on their website, but it doesn't mean that they believe them. Many will say what they think people EXPECT them to say. If you've been reading any of the threads in General recently, there is mention there of a breeder saying one thing on her website but apparently practicing differenly in real life. The best thing you can do is to meet the breeders, at the least talk to them on the phone. Establish a rapport with them and use your intuition to decide whether or not you believe in them. I think I know the thread or should I say threads you are referring to in the Genral section! I hope that doesn't happen too often! I do have a breeder on my FB who is also heavily involved in showing and with the QLD club for that breed. She also lives close to me so she seems like a perfect fit but I don't know if she has any more litters planned for this year... Breeders heavily involved with their breed club are usually a good place to start. Most get involved with a breed club because they wish to do what is best for the breed. also if she doesn't have any litters planned, she can probably recommend someone else that does. Oh goody! I've sent her a PM on FB to ask if she has any litters planned. I really want someone close by so I can go visit my puppy she he/she grows. I wonder though if breeders allow that? Hmm... We encourage and welcome families to visit their puppies as often as possible. I allows us to build a rapport with the new family, gives the opportunity for us to provide information and instructions along the way, and also the puppy benefits so much from these visits and has a much smoother and calmer transition to it's new home. Once the puppies are up and around, they really look forward to seeing their families. Just another note on this thread. Queensland has a survey system in practice whereby every new puppy owner is sent a survey to complete in regard to the breeders practices and procedures. The new owners are chased up for completed surveys and the results are recorded against the individual breeders record. Complaints and problems are chased up. It is a fabulous innovation by Dogs Queensland, giving breeders the opportunity to gauge how well they're doing and improve where it might be needed. Of course, it benefits the new families indirectly as well. Of course, there could well be breeders who won't necessarily see it as a positive move, but it would do the other states good to instigate the same methods, if not already in place.

It's not an easy programme to learn initially but does get better and is more useful once you get the hang of it. You've done the first step - the laborious task of putting pedigrees in. Now with either a pedigree highlighted on the 'grid' view, or on a 'single view', click pedigrees on the lefthand side, and choose the pedigree you want - ie how it's set up or how many generations. It will throw up a pedigree for you. You can save the pedigree to your computer files by clicking File, then save as picture - name it and save. You only have the choice of a picture file unfortunately. Another good use for this programme is to compare mating pedigrees - ie, if you intend a girl, but are unsure as to who to put her to - do a new record named - Mary/Buster (ie the names of the two dogs) and use these dogs as the sire/dam - then ask for a pedigree. It will of course bring up a combined pedigree which would then be the pedigree of the puppies of the mating. I find this very useful to make final decisions on matings and keep a check on line breedings etc. There's more useful elements to the programme, but that's enough mind-boggling info to play with for now. Stick with it - it is worth it.

Fabulous article - saw a similar one, if not the same on Universal Cavalier. Honestly, the showing and breeding fraternity are causing their own problems in many cases and the loss of original type and quality are borne or trends. Well put in this article.

Fabulous article. I've come to the conclusion that the breeders and showers are, in many cases, causing their own problems. The judges can only choose from what is presented, and as you say, they're breeding to win. I've noticed that if a dog appears to be winning well, a lot of breeders tend to want 'some of that' in the hope that they will also win well with the offspring. That seems to create a trend towards that 'winning' dog, but in fact is only lending towards a mixmatch of pedigree which is not necessarily producing good quality puppies, out of which the perceived 'best' is chosen to go on and add to the original trend of change. I'm afraid I can't see how this is keeping the type of the breed true, or even improving the breed.

Just another reason why I stay away from feeding raw chicken bones - of any sort. I've heard too many stories about supposedly safe chicken necks and bones causing this sort of death. Not for my little kids I'm afraid.

We've all been there .... and the show can be a really good one, but unfortunately, more often than not it's all show and wishful thinking on the girl's part.

Banning the sale of dogs and cats in pet shops is at least a start and will help to make a dent in the demand for cheap 'cuties' for pet shops to make a huge profit on, thereby, hopefully reducing the number of poor souls that come into the world for this purpose. There is the problem though of private sale taking the place of pet shops, as you say. Perhaps making it illegal for unlicensed (unregistered, and in Qld's case, un-accredited breeders) to sell kittens or puppies, or even undesexed kittens or puppies would help to resolve the problem. Unfortunately, the demand for cheap puppies/kittens and the trend of promoting 'oodles' as the in thing has blown everything out of proportion. The natural attrition that used to occur in part-bred puppies/kittens has been blown out the window by the desire to pump puppies out Woolworths style with the least possible outlay in order to be able to sell to the middle man in bulk which is the only way they can possibly make any money at all. I was once approached by a pet shop for puppies, and resisting the urge to spit in her eye, I asked her how much she would pay - $140 per puppy was the response. I looked at her cages with all the dogs selling at around $1,000, and thought, 'no wonder you have the hide to ask'. I then took pleasure in telling her I wouldn't let one of my kids go to her in a fit.

Oh what a woman and now I'm feeling meek !!! We have one of those pet shops in our local town which flaunts their puppies in cages on the sidewalk. As you do, I try to dodge the place as every time I walk by, as I can't help stopping to mourn over the babies of various purported pure breeding and designer breeds. A couple of times I haven't been able to keep my mouth shut and warn cooing onlookers, and have even confronted the owner of the shop. The number of times I've left the shop feeling that I want to find an old fashioned soap box to stand on and wave a placard is as the same as the number of times I've done this, but of course, I don't.

An interesting exercise indeed. But, I think, the prices that are listed tend to be 'bargain' prices, at least in our breed. It's such a shame to do this, particularly when you know that pet shop prices (with no responsibility taken whatsoever in any direction on the part of the pet shop, or the suppliers of puppies) can be up to $500 higher, often for Lord knows what. What a pity to devalue puppies that are not in this category. Responsible breeders have so many costs associated with the breeding of their puppies, in keeping their adult dogs screened, healthy and happy, and in ensuring that the puppies are properly cared for and raised, screened and innoculated etc. One might make a small profit on a large, no problem litter, but it only takes one problem whelping, or one puppy needings veterinary assistance to soak up that profit. Honestly if our kids are able to support themselves, we think we're doing wonderfully well. One of our clients happily heralds that 'one decent vet bill with an ailing or disabled pet shop or bargain priced puppy soon makes up for any difference in price when buying from a responsible registered breeder'. Frankly, I couldn't have said it better. The other benefit of buying from a responsible breeder is of course the fact that we don't have a 'tough titty' attitude in regard to any inherant incidences, and are contactable and responsibly assisting.

I've been unable to log in for a vew days to check on how you're going Jed, and what a wonderful surprise to find you posting when I finally got to look this morning. While trying to catch up I noticed that, like me, there's a few trying to find the video to watch. I managed to find it and have posted the direct link below for anyone who's not had the pleasure of watching. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/video.aspx?vide...d8-a6245bc1e14a It's so lovely to see you up and about and looking as though you're well on the way to recovery. If you're feeling pretty special with all the support and attention you've been getting, so you should, because you are. Keep on getting just a little better every day.

Ooops, sorry, I thought you were looking for dog transport.

Yes, and we're all driving Jaguars and live in mansions or palaces (not). Then again, our vets and produce store owners usually are ;)

Doncha just love this one :D

I've had this a few times and have persisted with the supplementary feeding, particularly if she's happy to take the bottle. In each case, the puppy has indicated that it wants hard food when it's ready and that could be a little before, at the same time, of later than the rest of the litter. If she is starting to object to the bottle, try hard feed, and keep it soft and wet as she'll probably try to suck it up at first. If she's getting well over the time the rest of the litter are tucking into hard feed, then encourage her to do so. Once they start to take hard food, they generally start to flourish and because of all the additional handling they've had, they're usually beautifully natured as well. I've not had one of these fail to go on and fly through their vet check at 6 weeks. Whilever any of my babies show will to survive, I always choose to support that will and it generally works out for the better in the end. Occasionally it doesn't, but at least they've had the chance.

Yes, I've had this with a couple of my younger girls. It can be up to three months later that the 'real' season appears. It usually settles down once the girl is matured, or has had a litter.

and in some cases there is a damn good reason for it being an immediate dismissal. Actually, GayleK, it is very much the business of the people rehoming a rescue or homing a puppy. Some dogs are simply not suited to being left home alone for long periods and some dogs will take to it with not a problem at all. It is essential that rehomers/homers know their dogs so they can put their dogs where all parties' needs will be met. About 5 years ago, I was visiting a prospective foster carer with a view to adopting and discovered that she had an unfenced above ground swimming pool with steps up to the surrounding decking as well as great big holes in her fence. She said in the 30 years she'd had the pool she hadn't had anything go wrong and then proceded to tell me of all the things that had happened !!! She did not get the dog. I wouldn't put this on an open forum :D . However, if a home visit is part of the homing/rehoming process anyone telling porkies should be sprung to a certain degree. Can't see why not. But hey, we're all different. It's the answers I'm interested in and they're not displayed. What a prospective owner thinks I want to hear may not be what I'm wanting to hear. And, the way the answer has a lot to do with the next step being taken. Making a home visit is not always possible because of distance, but I encourage visits to my establishment and the behaviour and interaction during that visit can influence visitor's procurement of a puppy from us. Funnily enough the dogs and puppies' reactions to the visitors does tell a story in itself.

Wags, it's Well Done to the registered breeders that we've got our tibbies from. Because that's 'them' to a T! When people admire our dogs' looks & temperament & behaviour... and congratulate me, I tell them that's how they came from their breeder! The breeder who brought up our present 2 tibs, always asks, 'How are my girls?' Anyone who'd be threatened by a question like that...wouldn't twig that's why we've got such lovely dogs. :D Absolutely !!!! I send off regular update prompt emails to those I haven't heard from for a while and like to give updates to those that I've bought puppies from as I know how wonderful it is to get them.