Wags

Components making up the definition of a puppy farmer as I see it: Non-discerning breeding programmes Simply putting dogs together for the sake of a litter or numerous litters, regardless of whether the dogs are registered, unregistered or mixed breed, with no direction involved other than the production of a litter/litters, or, with no directional purpose other than to cash in on a trend or in the hope of producing another ch based only on the number of chs in the pedigree New families not appropriately screened or provided with appropriate documentation, history and advice on responsible puppy care Little, if at all, after sale responsibility taken by the breeder Care and Health Practices Inadequate, if any, health checking and meeting of care needs of breeding dogs Inadequate, if any, consideration or planning given to the mother’s health and care needs in regard to pregnancies, whelping, or nursing – or the strain constant litters may be putting on her health and wellbeing. Inadequate, if any, health checking and meeting of care needs of puppies Proper care, worming, inoculation needs, microchipping and socialisation not effected with puppies Environment Keeping dogs or puppies in confined spaces, whether clean and tidy or otherwise, including cages, crates and small yards with no or little access to natural surfaces and space to exercise adequately, and/or involving them in stimulating activities Target Market & Selling Practices Selling puppies cheaply through dependable avenues of pet shops, some web sites or publications or even direct to the public and directed solely at the pet market – a no brainer As the aim of a registered breeder is to ‘improve the breed’ and ‘assist other breeders to do the same’, one could interpret the sale of ‘limited registration’ only puppies, directed at the pet puppy market, except for the odd puppy kept or sold on main, but only to a select few breeders, if at all – it could be argued that registered breeders selling on limited registration only could be placed in this category, whether done to ‘protect exclusivity of lines’ or not. Transparency of the breeder and breeder’s practices Anonimity is required and given to breeders providing puppies to pet shops. This effectively means there is no right of come back for anyone buying their puppies, or repercussions to the breeder in regard to the health or quality of their puppies, whether mixed breed or supposedly purebred. Lack of transparency in any breeder, registered or otherwise, effectively reduces the need for responsible breeding practices, and increases unaccountability. Not all puppies born are show or breeding quality, and there’s nothing wrong with breeding for the pet market only, provided the ethics, principles, aims and direction of the breeding programme contain all the necessary components to continue to improve the breed, and assist other breeders to do the same. In using the term ‘breeder’ here, I refer to the genuine breeder, not the fly by nights who soon discover that the whole idea is not as lucrative as they thought it might be. Frankly, I don’t see how any person could be labeled a ‘puppy farmer’ unless guilty of, say 90% of the above, else we’d have a lot of registered and reputable breeders who could well qualify for the label ‘puppy farmer’. The breeder's ethics, practices and transparency would surely be the basis for defining a breeder correctly as a puppy farmer. Perhaps instead of using the term indiscrimanently, no matter how much public cloak and dagger is involved, the claimant ought to ensure that facts, not fiction, are checked personally. There are breeders who no doubt do come under this category, but before passing unfounded defamatory gossip on openly, or privately, be sure you have it right, and whether you yourself just might fall into the same category - and therefore live in a glass house subject to similar stone throwing.

Time and time again, we see reference to someone being a puppy farmer, whether registered breeder or not. The definition seems to be lacking and I just wondered ....... what defines a puppy farmer? Is there standard criteria, or is it merely a term to defame someone you don't like or who is a threat to you????

Oh for Pete's Sake !!!!! First it was Burke's backyard and now it's the PM. When are the idiots going to realise that they in fact have a mongrel of very questionable descendants as to breed, or health background with no responsible thought put into it by the so called breeder, let alone care properly for her dogs and puppies. We poor registered breeders are battered and beaten in the media, spend thousands of dollars and time researching the background of our dogs and specialist health testing trying to give our puppies the best possible chance for a happy healthy life, then ensure that our dogs and puppies have absolutely every thing they need, are criticised for the prices we charge for our puppies, under scrutiny by the general public, other breeders and canine councils - and these people are heralded as they are in the media. Lord !!! Give us strength. I will never question the price of my puppies, ever again, and at least I can sleep at night !!!!

Absolutely pick them wet and I haven't been disappointed yet. You see the puppy in all it's honesty when first born.

Yes, I've not had a puppy returned, but because of a couple of unsatisfactory situations over the years, I now ask any new owner to sign an agreement to give me first right of refusal to either buy the puppy back, or be involved in rehoming it. Unless I want the puppy in my breeding programme (and assuming it's not desexed) I opt for rehoming. I usually have suitable families on my waiting list that I can approach and recommend a suitable purchase price to both the current and new owner of the puppy. That way I can ensure that the puppy continues to be given every chance of a long and happy life and is not just turfed off to anyone. It also allows me to keep track of my bubs. Of course, if the current owner of the puppy has a suggestion for a new home, I will contact that person for screening and will not discount it as a suitable home.

I've not long been on the Puppy Plan for Breeders and am finding that it's very worthwhile for both the new owners and the breeder - in fact, I think this plan really does try to assist the breeder with their reward system. My bubs are now being raised on Advance Puppy and all is going very well indeed.

I can certainly help with this one. Gympie Veterinary Services ..... 2 Little Channon St, Gympie - 5482 2488. Shannon is the most experienced in repro and is also highly experienced in skeletal matters. He's presently training a younger vet up as well. We used to have Holly, but she moved to Brisbane. Honestly in my view, having a high priority on very good vets, you can't go past this team for high quality service and importance given to breeders and their dogs. 24 hour service and willingly - all you need to do is call.

Many thanks. I think I'll err on the side of caution and go with her second contact.

I guess it's really just a guide isn't it ..... the lower the score, the less liklihood of problems in the future. The best measure of anything is to monitor the offspring for any occurrences of any inherant problems, it's the best evidence of all, but unfortunately, not always possible 100%. My vet works on % problems within a breeding programme (and has some horror stories to tell in regard to improper breeding practices by registered breeder I might add). On the rare occasions a problem raises it's ugly head, she's very quick to remind me that my percentage of problems is miniscule - it always helps to be reminded of this. Sometimes, try as you might to be as discerning as natural attrition would be, nature will throw in a glitch - disheartening as it can be, there's little we can do about that.

Yes, I am. I wouldn't have bred while I was working if this hadn't been available to me. He would phone if he had any situations or worries.

Having someone at home who can keep an eye on things is probably the only way you can do it. You also have to have a very understanding employer as well. One who can cope with you not being at work if one of your girls starts to whelp, or if the whelping is during the night, or the day after or few days after or if there's a problem with a puppy. I've done it and received many ugent phone calls from my other half during the day, sometimes just to check on something, sometimes describing a panic and taking instructions on how to handle it etc etc. It was a 4.30am start to the day to clean up the night's mess, look after all the adult dogs and ensure the mum and puppies were comfy and set up for the day, and then the minute I hit home ground from work in the evenings, it was another few hours that end. Flop into bed no later than 10.30pm leaving the other half, who was a night owl, to keep a check on things and up again before the roosters to repeat it all over again. To be honest, I'm just as worn out sometimes even though I'm not working now, and I've no idea how I managed it. I think it was pure adrenalin. Routine, routine, routine - it's so important

What you can use - Sandoz, Glucose, Glucodin, Honey, Karo Syrup - Rub into gums. Previous threads on the subject Here Here Helpful Links Does anyone have any they would like to add? My one and only experience with hypoglycemia (and the puppy went into shock) was caused by Coccia in the system. Once treated, the tiny lil thing improved and recovered within 12 hours. Follow up treatments were given and apart from ensuring the blighter was eradicated, or at the very least, managed, there were no further problems. The parasite was introduced via a puppy brought in from another kennel and she was pleased to hear of our encounter as similar symptoms had occurred in other puppies in the litter. Dosing the puppies with glucose only masked the problem which kept reoccurring. The puppies were then able to be treated correctly and the problem eradicated. Since that episode, at the recommendation of our vet, we treat the mothers immediately after whelping as a safe-guard. It might be worth considering if you see it in your litters. Coccidia can be lurking in the systems of adult dogs without any symptoms at all and puppies of around 12 weeks gain resistance. A whelping bitch can be under enough stress to shed Coccidia which in turn the puppies pick up.

The ATO will not even consider registering dog breeding as a business, unless the breeder can show substantial income. Breeders on pensions are not required to have business status, and centrelink is not interested in the income from pups which those on pensions breed. If the breeder has another profitable business (grooming etc) dog breeding can be added to that as a business. It is not terribly easy to have any agricultural enterprise (including) dogs, assessed as a business by the ATO. It needs substantial income, business like behaviour, designated premises, etc. Owners of big farms or stations easily get business status, owners of 10 acres growing olives have great difficulty in being accepted by the ATO as a business. Anyone can apply for, and get, an ABN Yes, good manners/common decency would demand that we respond to all enquiries in a timely and polite way, whether we are running a hobby or not. I don't believe dog breeding is an industry - that has terrible connotations for me -- and probably for animal rights too, although I think they view it as an industry already That's interesting as the ATO accepts my dog breeding as a business, but we are zoned rural with a property number, that may make the difference ?? Mind you they accepted it prior to obtaining the property number which only came with the cattle.

My vet raised exactly the same summation to me recently. PenHIP is done quite close to me, and although it's very expensive, I intend to do both the accepted xray (to comply with expectations) and the PenHIP on my adult dogs (for my own peace of mind). Having had the PenHIP explained to me it seems to be a far superior testing than the xrays, and give a much longer forecast. I believe the expenses are borne of a patent on the process and the fees that are required to use the process. I did contemplate doing all my litters, but the expenses involved curtailed that - so the next best thing is to have my adults done.

I know it's been very well discussed, but does anyone know whether Wyburn is back in action. I have three scorings due to be done and although my vet has two scorers on board, I would prefer to use Wyburn if possible. She has not been advised that he is ill and has continued to send xrays to him.

A girl with a sound pedigree of healthy, true to type lines which has produced a dog (the girl to be serviced) commensurate with those lines. The lines need to be compatible with your own lines as well. Outside matings need to be assessed on the basis of 'improving' the breed equally as much as inhouse matings and we should be familiar with our boys' ability to enhance and in what areas. If a girl has faults that could be emphasised by the boy, then you don't do the mating, but if he is likely to enhance the girl, then it is an approved mating.

I certainly keep records in regard to my boys' outside matings, including dates of mating, birth date, sex and colour of puppies and ask the owner of the girl to keep me updated on the development of the puppies. Prior to the servicing I obtain pedigrees of the girls and photographs and keep those on file as well. Yes, it's an added way of monitoring how the boys perform with different pedigrees and dogs and is equally as important a record keeping as those kept for our own dogs.

Technically any breeder that sells a puppy or puppies to the general public (regardless of whether to show/breeding or pet homes) would be classed as a commercial enterprise as the minute one puppy is sold in this manner would classify that transaction as commercial. No matter how regularly puppies are bred and sold by any breeder, it would be a commercial transaction. Some breeders prefer to be set up and transparent, others view it as a hobby and prefer to rest on that. It is however, a commercial transaction. It is not merely selling second hand goods that are no longer wanted. We are intentionally breeding with a view to selling at least some puppies from the litter. I'm told the ATO view it as a hobby until such time as it becomes the largest income source. Not sure how true this is. However if one was subject to an inspection by the ATO I'm sure the income from sold puppies, however small an amount, would be taken into consideration, particularly if one was self-employed, which is I think why a lot of people set it up under an ABN umbrella. I'm also told that the first thing Fair Trading will ask, if someone complains to them, is whether you have an ABN or not as they seem to expect you to have one. As to whether it constitutes a 'business' really isn't relevant as to how contacts are managed. As registered breeders we are representing the industry/fraternity, whatever you want to call it, and common decency would necessitate an element politeness of some response to contacts from people who have found you on one of the breed advertising sites, such as Dogzonline, even if it's just a standard little email or quote for phone contact. We all slip up sometimes, but if the intent is there, then we're doing the best we can for the reputation of ourselves as registered breeders and ancillary services as a whole.

When those hormones start flying anybody is likely to get into the act - early late seasons abound. It would be nice if they organised themselves better and it plays havoc with planning, but them's the breaks.

Oh dear, I'd better not pass these research findings onto a fewl of my girls, they already think they're the most individual and important girls in the world (and, of course they are) but they have also proven to be the exception in that their early litters were predominantly boys, occasionally throwing in a girl to wet my appetite, and their later litters have been predominantly girls. Mind you, I'm quite happy with the trend, but am contributing it to a different sire who tends to throw more girls than boys in each of his litters but one. Hopefully the trend continues as does the quality of puppies in the litter. Fingers crossed.

I haven't looked at this thread for ages, feeling it was an absolute wase of time, but just spotted this response. Steve, Dogs Queensland have heretofore conducted themselves no differently to any other state canine body in regard to complaints and inspections, in my direct experience in working with the various councils and from what I have been told by interstate breeders. In my experience it has been the Queensland canine council who have taken anything put to them more seriously and are always communicative in regard to the outcome of anything. I've approached interstate canine controls about matters, and have yet to receive a response !!! I am sure there are plans afoot in regard to what to do about non-accredited breeers, but as I don't work for Dogs Qld, I'm not aware of them. It stands to reason that there would have to be some plan involved, either to have all but perhaps probationary (for want of a better word) breeders to become accredited, or something which encourages and makes it mandatory for the remaining breeders to come on board with the accreditation scheme. To be honest, I personally think the breeders who don't wish to come on board, (a) don't have the right to criticise and belittle those that have done so, or the scheme itself as they are not part of it, and (b) are the ones doing themselves the most harm by creating suspicion about themselves with their own reactions to the schemes intent of more stringent monitoring, insofar as other breeders and the general public are concerned, at a minimum.

Bites can take up to 2 years to settle down, but you can't really predict where they will go, just give the best chance of a good mouth in the choice of breeders. I would probably look to compensate the puppy owner if the mouth continued to be out. You're not responsible for another breeder's actions, so no you're not responsible for the accidental litter.

I prefer to let nature take it's course but keep an eye on things to ensure that all is calm. Assisting only serves to stress the boy out in my breed and a calm boy is going to perform much better.

Yes, I'd want to know and have discovered the hard way that non-breeding agreements signed and witnessed are the way to go to impress on people that they are legally bound regarding breeding with LR dogs. Mind you, only with the last litter I discovered a supposedly ethical professional person had full intention of breeding with one of my limited reg puppies. The force was with me and I discovered this just in the nick of time. She didn't get a puppy and all breeders I could think of were warned.