Malti

There's more than one issue; some of them have been done to death on DOL yet some of the same suspects turn up for another brawl every time 'Hawkesbury' appears in a thread title. 1. Allegation that the pound has appointed (de facto) one group as the rescue point-of-contact 2. Allegations that the appointed group is making errors 3. Allegation that certain other volunteers have been excluded from access to the dogs and cut out of the info loop 4. Control of volunteers' photographs and temp notes after they've appeared on DOL 5. Lack of a regular/reliable Hawkesbury thread on DOL As ~Anne~ has pointed out, issues 1 and 2 should be taken up with the pound and/or the council administration. Issue 3 is also a matter to be negotiated and resolved directly with the pound. Issues 3 and 4 have led to issue 5, which is the bit that matters on DOL—and that is where this thread started, and should have stayed. Yes quite a few of the same people pop up including Blacktown List when Hawkesbury is mentioned. Thank you for letting me know what has caused the problem.

I think the only relevance it has to DOL is that members on here are discussing their experiences and finding out they are not alone in issues that are affecting them. I hope some constructive correspondence can be had between the pound and the people experiencing problems and they can be resolved. DOL is not a mandantory thing for people involved in rescue but those that have used it for the many years it has been a great resource and it would be sad to see it go.

No I haven't personally and it seems this is a new thing that has happened. I hope it is addressed and something can be sorted out. There is no reason why the people that have volunteered at HP for many years should now be unable to continue. I guess it is up to the pound to decide that. Unfortunately the antagonism and angst is part of the problem if things were not happening that are stopping people from doing their own thing in rescue, there would be no reason for conflict. It has turned into a really sad situation that is still unfolding and so many people in rescue are being affected, people willing to help but are now being misinformed of what is going on just shows it is worsening rather than finding a happy medium where people are not forced to work with people they choose not to or blocked from volunteering for whatever reason. I suppose my above comment may seem like it is antagonistic but I am just trying to give reasons for the comments made and that it is not just crying over spilt milk, there now seems to be a big problem occurring that is now truly affecting dogs in the pound (two that were at risk of the pts list, but someone was told otherwise). I feel really bad for the person and the dogs and do not understand why a new group appearing is having such a big affect on dogs in a pound, it is truly worrying.

I realise it is the pound that is ultimately responsible, but I think the rescue or whatever they are, have a hand in what is now happening and wish it could be clarified who do people go to, to help with the HP dogs. With what has gone on since Christmas nothing is being achieved and now seems one group of people that say they aren't rescue are now monopolised the situation to where to get any information you need to go through them. Yes again, it is the pound that is failing but I also refuse to believe that it has nothing to do with this group of people wanting it that way too, rather than them doing what they do and the other people who go to HP be allowed to continue what they have done. It is a really sad thing to see what people have worked at for years to be ceased and be told what Kelscats was. I have seen them running after many different names on the social networking site, I have no clue as to why they do this except maybe for people to not know they are working with the one but group with different names. I am just wondering why Blacktown List is now involved again with being able to find out when it seems Kelscats was at HP and was told there was no list. Are they with the rescue/people that has this information? If not I don't think it is appropriate to write under a group name (such as PL or BTL) without identifying it is an individual's opinion rather than implicating other members of that list as it being their opinion too. Just my opinion on it anyway

Why is the list unable to be put up by the volunteers that go to Hawkesbury Pound? Kelscats has said her latest experience and that others know that some dogs were at risk of being put to sleep. Who would you be Blacktown List? Are you a representative of the group on the social networking page, as you seem to be able to get the put to sleep list when others on the ground at Hawkebury pound are no longer allowed to see? What happens when you don't have time to do a Hawkesbury Pound list even though Kelscats states she was at the pound and could have met the dogs? This seems to have happened just before Christmas and now the dogs are the ones that are suffering. Exactly what people were worried about in the first place. Putting a hold on a dog to stop he/she being put to sleep is a risky move by whoever does that, they risk pounds refusing to hold dogs over if not collected before pts time, if their hold continually falls through.

It looks as though the people (such as Kelscats) were on the ground at Hawkesbury Pound have now no information except all the dogs are safe (which is great). Maybe you could let people know who is conactable regarding the Hawkesbury Pound since you seem to know the people that go there and how rescue can find out the dogs that need help. People do not have to join DOL to see the dogs, but you have to join up to the social networking site. From my understanding as well Blacktown List, the people representing themselves on the social networking site for Hawkesbury Pound have stated some rescues they will not work with. That they have their information as contact as first preference, unlike on DOL it was only pound contact information, not a 16D holder with numerous rescues associated with them that seem to be the same people (from the same social network page) just under a different names and very confusing and no real clarity on what they actually are in rescue. If people are wondering why there are no answers and it all seems to be confusing, that is because it is and the social network group will not clearly tell people who or what they do. They ask for donations, foster carers, transport, vet costs, kennelling costs. But then state they are not a rescue.

Would you like me to post some attacks up that pound rounds have put onto Pound List members? They are nothing short of vile childish comments, accusing many people of the same thing you are, and that is not caring for dogs and cats in pounds. It is highly insulting and beyond a joke, some of these people have been involved with pounds and/or rescue for many years. They have worked well with a lot of people and have not had to put up with the abuse they have received, by email, by phone, via social network sites and personal messaging. Nor be told they are to blame for dogs dying in the pound. Start looking inwards and find remarks made by certain people that are members of a certain group are not looking for an amicable arrangement, they are looking to rail road people into doing things their way and only their way, and when it is not done, the abuse flies. Volunteers are just that, they are not employees of the pound, they volunteer their time after agreeing with the council or pound in a formatted way. Unless it is expressed by the pound they want the photo's or the arrangement is made with what can happen with their photo's it is the property of the people who take them as well as the temp notes. If temp notes are used by third parties please tell me how you think people could answer other questions ask? or if the dogs behaviour changes and the people copying them do not update them? As I am lead to believe pound rounds state they go to these pounds, they take photo's and meet the dogs. Why can they not just use their own material and not others? Pound Rounds is a rescue group and that then leads towards them asking for their own donations and foster carers and adopting dogs from them. This then defeats a non biased approach that Pound List uses. Pound Rounds have been involved in a lot of incidences of late with dogs, creating concerns by people who do not ethically agree with what is going on. I find it hard that when questions are asked and it is seen as an attack, and hysterical abuse follows (again willing to post past abuse) rather than be willing to be honest other people that are involve in pounds/rescues/helping pound dogs and cats in some way. Has it ever been thought of that pound rounds can do their work and others do theirs without having to explain, justify or be put in a position of having to work with pound rounds? Because from what I have seen, if you do not agree to, you are not interested in saving dogs lives, alienating what pound rounds states it wants - no one wants to work with people that are going to harass or abuse them. Make no mistake in your words! Deadly games, this is not a game, this is real, someone has been bitten hard enough to require surgery and a question of the dog being put to sleep because of this. No one is playing a game, they are genuinely concerned for the dog, the people involved and the ramifications it can have on rescue.

You are going on about things that have not been said, now bringing Pound List into it again. Does anyone that does not want to be associated with pound rounds have to be attacked? As they have taken the photographs they want off here and pass it off as their own and ask for money or to contact pound rounds on the bottom of the photo's. Pound List are not associated with one rescue group, it is voluntary the position of meeting the dogs, temp testing and photographing. Pound Rounds talks of going to the pound and doing all this so why are they unable to do their own thing and not get so upset? Talking about mob mentality,anything not for the group is deleted so it looks like everyone has to agree with each other or it is a crime. I find it mildly amusing that people who are actually concerned for animal welfare are accused of not caring because things are questioned and your accusations are suppose to be acceptable. A lot of what has been written is fact and yours is emotionally driven and little fact to back it up. A dog bit a child from what I have read (not attacked - two very different things) the owner of the dog disclosed where the dog came from, no one else.

According to the people involved with pound rounds and I quote " Last time we shared them - they shut the entire thread down - just before Christmas - another group of vols on DOLs opened it up - and now it appears PoundList has reopened a duplicate thread - again with a sincere attempt to refuse anyone else access - take a photo, copyright, refuse sharing and then standby and let them die. So much is wrong with that. So very much. Thanks for your advice Carey - we will approach the council about it as well. Trying to enforce a copyright of photos of dogs about to be killed feels so wrong - that overwhelming feeling of discomfort should have been enough. We certainly know what we would do next time - and that is save her life - and if the pound hadn't been at critical mass and brought forward the time - we probably owuld have made one last desperate attempt :"-(" I believe the thread was opened up and the councils website photo's were used. No questions answered, only updated when the council website changed. They claim they would have saved her yet didn't but we are suppose to believe a dog died because of Pound List not putting a photo up, yet the dog in questions photo IS up. It seems like the usual deflection of blame on people not wanting to associate themselves with pound rounds, rather than the pound being full due to people dumping their dogs. "This is TOTAL INSANITY. The person/people responsible for preventing the rescue of any dog should NOT be in rescue.... Maybe they need to consult a dictionary and look up exactly what rescue means. Lets face it, animal lovers save lives, egomaniacs override anything and everything to be noticed GET OUT OF RESCUE YOU MORONS and leave it to those who know the meaning of the word RESCUE" "This is awful to read but so typical of the vicious nasty animal welfare politics. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on the owner of the copyright. I hope you are happy, whoever you are!! And please do not EVER try and pretend you are an animal welfare person, as you are not." No one ever said people could not 'rescue' (or whatever pound rounds is). People choose not to be associated with them again seems to cause them to believe anyone likes seeing a dog being pts. "Very well said Melanie. I take pictures of cats at BP weekly. Post them on Gumtree (and bump the older posts) and I couldn't give a continental who uses, shares or borrows my photos!! We (well most of us) are here to promote/cross post as many companion animals as we can. Use what you like of my pics, I'm not that narrow minded, if it saves a life fanbloodytastic!!" Again photo's not wanting to be put on Gumtree if that means sharing photo's anyway. It has been done before and caused a great deal of abusive phone calls to pounds and confusion as dogs and cats were no longer in the pound. "This is awful to read but so typical of the vicious nasty animal welfare politics. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on the owner of the copyright. I hope you are happy, whoever you are!! And please do not EVER try and pretend you are an animal welfare person, as you are not." I guess the key thing is the accusation of Pound List not allowing rescue as claimed is a sensationalist motion. Pound List does not want to be held to ransom to Pound Rounds. It is simple as that. They use the photo's as their own, claim notes they edit and use some of these photo's to gain money to get a dog out of the pound, via chip in's and offer people to adopt the dog through them in their 'subsidised adoption' program straight from the pound. I understand that some people who read this are going to say it is petty or should be done 'quietly'. The pettiness is unfortunately huge, but to put everything out for people to see would take a novel to do so and no one has the time or could be bothered to do it. All that is asked is pound rounds do their thing that they obviously believe is right, leave Pound List to do what they think is right and not involve any notes or photo's into their idea of getting the dogs exposure. It is really a simple thing that has been asked, yet they have gone to attack. The last example of this was after asking for the above is what the Clause 16D holder felt necessary to post. I have deciphered most of it, none which is adult like or respectful in any way to people who just wish not to be associated with pound rounds which includes not distributing photo's

Seems so. If they have the time to be drawing on moustaches and writing introductions in accents, you'd think they'd also have the time to take their own photos, hey? Another little gem according to this person is that by not sharing or giving permission for them to use Pound Lists notes and photos they are directly responsible for 'Bella' being PTS. What a bunch of id1Ots, the vitriol that is coming from people who have no idea is quite scary They have also claimed they go to the pound and take video's and notes. Where are they then and if people do not want to associate themselves with their vile emotional pushing of dogs why should they have to? Quote "They claimed we did not go to the pound ourselves. They claimed on DOLs we stole all the pictures and videos, they claimed we were trying to corner the market and make all rescues and volunteers deal with PR. WTC??? (what the craziness) They must have missed the videos and photos since May 31st with my ugly mug in them. They must have missed Vickis doggy babbling videos (you know when you do doggy baby language and it seems so normal at the time but... ), they must have never seen Zsusie or Lizzie or Lyn or Sean or or or or. In fact they must have never once visited the Pound Rounds site." They use to photo's and ask for donations, this is blatantly obvious. They now offer to adopt a dog from pound rounds for $150 straight from the pound. How is that not rescue? They want to figure out what they are rather than trying to be a wedge between pounds and rescues. So over them. They are trying to blame so many for dogs dying in pounds because they can't use Pound List photo's, just another attempt at blaming others for people dumping their dogs in the pound and leaving them there. The attempted guilt trip will not work. Pound List is not to blame.