Malti

Rescues have rights to treat dogs as theirs, there is a million and one rescues now and not all work the same way, and you may not like the answer you get from one, but a bit of acceptance of 'red tape' and how rescues choose to run should be put in there, you just seem like you are saying you knew better than the rescue, yet the dog was in the rescue care, that was the dog they are responsible for, not what you think would be okay, when it just may not have been okay. I am not sure where all the other rejections came from, but - if someone said you were overweight and couldn't walk a dog daily run from that group as fast as you can (oh wait, you can't because you may be 'overweight', but walk as fast as you can :laugh: I will be far behind you, as I do not 'do' runnning ), that is the worst excuse I have ever heard of. But as someone that helps pound dogs, - I have had a fellow rescuer informing numerous people that my car was dirty (I live in the country, dirt roads are regularly driven), I looked like a bit of a mess (I have clothes specifically for the pound that are not my best, because I attempt to keep pound germs on a few sets of clothes, they just don't happen to be what I wear if I was going out, not even shopping), but there is nothing clean about our pound, I think the muddy paw prints may bring a certain style to my clothing choice as I get dogs out and temp test them rain or shine. - I believe the state of my car inside became was worthy of a mention, not only do I have leads, treats crates and random assortment of necessities for helping pound dogs and rescues, and putting various dogs in my car, my car will never be the same again, especially the lovely aroma a week or two brings to a dog, my car being a source of moving pound dogs out of the pound seemed less important to said rescuer, than doing the jobs they won't lower themselves to do, and a rescue that gets someone else to pick up their pound and they only pick them up after others groom and clean their dogs. - Also I apparently didn't offer the transporter a coffee, because I had half an hour before I had to pick up a relative for an appointment. Some people are just bitches, I am not ever running in the literal sense either and a build of body is not a criteria for whether you have the ability to help, or own a dog. I guess my point being, we all get judged in rescue or outside rescue, sometimes there are bitchy personal judgements made by people, they are best avoided, unless you applied for a dog that did not approve of your choice of paint colours in renovating, your dog demanded to know when your husband is getting home, or the dog may be concerned about your working status as a working mum and is against that. But not knowing the dog, separation anxiety and cat chasing may be a legitimate concern, all the others, just like I copped are just from nutters within rescue.

You are definitely not alone there Melanie Thomas I can donate to help this dog. In the past I have donated to Pound Rounds and inquired about the fate of the dog, with no reply. 2 hrs

After reading their site further, they are staying people can donate and it will cost $150 to do the vet work, so donate if you can't adopt donate towards the vet work cost so people can adopt for $50. Of course they have made the claim a certain member of their group has kicked it off with '$5000 of their own money'

There is no way they can cover costs of vet work for the adoption fee of $50, but they do pull in a lot of money through their emotional dribble. No doubt it will be as hit and miss as they have been since they started. I am guessing they are finding it harder and harder to find dogs getting out by their previous ways and are moving onto the 'just because you can't afford the adoption fee doesn't mean you shouldn't own a dog', and the 'studies' done in the USA of giving dogs away to turn dogs over. Why don't they just take over the pounds and run them? It would save this mess and stop putting it under 'rescue' and under pound management instead. As long as dogs aren't dying in pounds it doesn't seems matter what happens to the dog. Am getting closer to wanting rescue to be regulated everyday.... Edited to add, the said group can help you become a rescue group by 'incubating' you into one

No one ever said half the things people are ranting about, that is the problem and the 'gobsmacking' things about the thread, Shel said she welcomed feedback, she got it. Everyone keeps ranting about how positive PetRescue is, and it is positive, that was never the point, so I don't understand why people keep ranting away like someone has said PetRescue is the worst site in the universe, stealing donations, and does nothing to help advertise animals. Seriously........

Chuffed link does not answer the question that was asked though, and don't see how the chuffed campaign needed clarifying I am so sorry that you have spent ten years networking, busting balls and that you find it utterly absurd that I found it demeaning rescues in some of your replies and you have been asked to appease people who don't want to be PetRescue members, and that it costs you $25 per animal, and that you were accused of fundraising and doing rescues out of money and had to detail your need for fundraising and that people don't want PetRescue to go from strength to strength...... So many more I could add, but hope you get the drift, it was about a placement of a button, not changing life as we know it, seriously, it is a bit much. 'I only want to work with rescuers who value their PetRescue membership and rooting for us. To go off what the OP was about, clearly the donate button question may mean you don't value your membership, and the OP clearly didn't want PetRescue to work out. Then Vix jumps in and says their was no truth to a donation going to the wrong place, I asked her a question it was ignored and instead addressed another person, even though I was mistaken, but then I guess I am just 'one of those commenting' and you aren't Vix. None of the above would demean people and extend to an accusation or 10, that were never made about PetRescue. So I guess that I am the first you have encountered that found your posts demeaning to rescues, they say there always as to be a first.... It was made clear, if you don't like it, leave, be autonomous, don't ring me, I will ring you, all over a donate button question. I was not standing here waiting to pull things to pieces, I just found the responses highly dramatic with the reasons for the donation button placement and the need for there to be one (which no one ever said shouldn't exist or that you don't need to do certain things to keep PetRescue running). Have we ever spoken or met - Is that relevant? Have I ever used your service? - Is that relevant? Is there a reason this feels so hostile? Yes, most likely, as above, your words are dramatic and sensationalist. No-one is allowed to ask questions, otherwise they are wanting PetRescue to spontaneously explode and not exist, and someone accused you of robbing the blind and rolling in their hard earned cash, in gold castle, when none of that was actually said, then there seemed to be a lot of grandstanding about what you have done, what you do, and how grateful everyone should be for that. Simply by asking about the placement of the button this was the responses given. Edited to ask if it was relevant if we had spoken/met or if I had used your service.

Your comment in relation to the placement of the donation button 'A potential link to the profiles had never occurred to us.' your review of the the feedback was quick and defensive considering you had never thought of it. Edited to add I just clicked onto the donate button "Every day, thousands of pets are counting on us to find them a forever home. We know you can't take them all home, but you can help us keep saving lives and stop the killing of healthy and treatable companion animals in Australia’s pounds. Our not-for-profit organisation empowers pet-loving Australians to adopt more than 5,000 rescue pets every month, and discover the joy of unconditional love a rescue pet brings. That’s saving 5,000+ orphaned pets that may otherwise go unnoticed or, worse still, be euthanised. It costs just $25 to match one of our rescue pets with their new family. If you're an animal lover you can save a life." after the donate button "When you make a donation to our charity, your contribution is invested in tools, campaigns and programs that will achieve the greatest positive outcomes for rescue pets. All donations over $2 are tax deductible, and a receipt will be emailed to you for tax purposes." Wow, that is not clear at all, not once do you name yourself (PetRescue) being where the money goes, not once does it recognise rescues are involved, your site has saved 5000 lives this year, and I am glad it costs you $25 to match 'one of our rescue pets', I think you will find it a lot more expensive if they were dumped at your door I can read post #25 "I have just watched a video that Petrescue have prepared to increase adoptions. It says "we have rehomed xxxxx cats and dogs", this is also a bit confusing because to me, Petrescue is the website that allows rescue groups to showcase the dogs they have rescued. Isn't it still the rescue groups that actually "rehome" the cats and dogs? They do the homechecks, interviews and place the animals, still taking the responsibility all the way?" So petrescue is now going to rehome, do homechecks and interviews and place animals? I couldn't find that in the campaign so still don't see the relevance. Yes, Shel talked about the lay out of her site, and how she hasn't thought of the button placement before this thread was started, but no she did not say she would take a look at the button placement, it is not about what happens once you press the button, it is about the placement. How is it that you say, you understand how people could get confused, but then say, PR clearly explains things? So to be fair, I don't think you can 100% blame the general traffic on the site as being 'lazy'. Who would have thought a question could be terrible? First it was 'we need donations' (no one had said otherwise), have been told how much it costs for them to put a n animal for a rescue (can rescues put up how much each dog cost them to get them ready for adoption?) and now it is the viewers fault, these viewers more often than not are not within rescue and would have no clue how it all works, could 'to PetRescue' be added on 'Make a Donation now' button, maybe that would make it clearer? Since it can't be simply answered, I have had another look at the site, I clicked on a dog I liked, saw the PetRescue logo up the top, a bar to going to other areas (interested in a dog, not the site, so wouldn't click on it), an advert, the dogs name, dogs location, a little write up on the dog (I am interested in that dog and want to know more), above the dogs photo is a link to click to find out more (in the same colours as PetRescue logo up the top), a big red button to donate, and a little blurb above it saying what PetRescue does, they save lives (no mention that they do that in conjunction with rescue's) - not hard to think that this dog may come from PetRescue. (if you click on the 'Find out more about this pet' link a pop up says the name of the person who you are emailing and where the person is 'at'), Now look for the rescue, the rescues name is the third from the bottom in the 'details' section on the second half of the page, (not something you would necessarily look at and if you did, and clicked on the rescues name, it sends you to another section of PetRescues, and from there you can see a basic write up of the rescue, and at the bottom of that their website and/or FB link), if you click on the 'Send enquiry email' (which is below the 'contact'), that link has nothing about contacting the rescue at all (so easily a PetRescue animal) and you can be subscribed to the PetRescue Post and agree to PetRescues terms and conditions. Are you saying PetRescue going to make a spot so the rescues logo be somewhere near the beginning of the dogs advert? Or it is it up to the reader to scrawl through and not 'be lazy' (they are after an animal after all, not reading what the whole site is about). Please look again at the way you contact a rescue through PetRescue, I am pretty sure it could be confusing, not all enquirers from PetRescue end up going through with adoption applications, so they could easily walk away with the 'PetRescue' has the animal idea, I don't think rescuers are that lax as to have extensive contact with a potential adopter and for the matter to be cleared up, but find that the need to, and the response from Shel, sad, to say the least. I see PetRescue as a great platform for rescues to advertise their animals needing rehoming, but have found the thought that PetRescue somehow thinks they don't needs rescues to be on their page as one sided, if no rescue put their animals on PetRescue, then they won't get advertisements, or traffic looking at their site. Why demeaning to rescues and not see it as a site that helps rescues, and that rescues help the site? Res Often people have asked where they can view a rescue animal from, I have most often put up a link to PetRescue, I will no longer be lazy, I will ensure I name specific rescues in their area, give them the links to the rescues specific website, and/or FB page. Since is seems an underlying response of, 'like it or bugger off' attitude. Before anyone wants to have a problem with the extension of my questions, I have found all responses to be evasive and not having the basic question answered, I have felt the need to explain myself further and defend the general viewer of PetRescue and Rescues who advertise there, plus trying to get it back on topic, instead of another PetRescue campaign.

Really? You just used this thread as an advertisement for your new campaign? I guess I don't see anything acknowledged or answered, you dismissed anyone's question in relation to the obscurity of where the button is placed. No where has anyone said they don't want PetRescue to work, unless I missed something? I don't see how your new campaign had anything to do with this thread and find it funny that you have thrown that in though!

Hi Vickie, Hoping you can clarify the other concern since I misunderstood your comments towards Jill. Is the location of the 'donate now' button going to be reviewed or not? I took from your long winded post it was not going to be, but do not want another 'misunderstanding'.

I can only reinterate that is the location of the button that will have people confused, and thank you for answering my question, I would have thought it would have been worth moving but it is your site to do as you wish. I doubt JRT rescue would be lying about the situation that has occurred and think the suggestion that they have lied is not an appropriate way to address a members concerns.

Hi Shel, I guess the crux of the issue is the location of the donate button, nothing to do with your site needing to generate funds, instead the valid concern that the millions of petrescue viewers may be confused and donate believing it is towards a specific rescue. I think if one error has been made and known, the chances of others having done the same would be high. Just wondering if there is going to be any changes made so this is less likely occurring again?

No cutting anyone any slack who doesn't even give the dog a soft bed to lie on. OK? then went on to addressing another quote seems pretty clear to me what you saidI am sure by now we know pounds are legally bound to get pain relief at least for animals in their care if in pain or be advised by a vet for the best course of action. This dog is out of the pound, no one seemed to make a song and a dance whilst this dog sat there suffering, only now, and instead of taking direct course of action and contacting the pound his story (embellished or not) is for fundraising through emotion and accusation of a pound failing to give a dog adequate vet care.

That is EXACTLY what I was saying. I don't know, and the only people who do know are the Blacktound Pound people who were involved in the dog's care. All else is supposition. By my post it was in regards to you stating there was no bed seen in the picture and you assume there is none because of that. Your thoughts are an assumption and nothing more. This issue would have better being dealt with between the pound and the people making the allegations rather than a money raising thread based on nothing more than claims that obviously can't be backed up.

Your concerns are of no concern to me :) Is that the best you can do? Blacktown List being biased and people hiding under the name again. Why does this keep happening? It is suppose to be for pound dogs, not fund raising for rescues they choose to support. What has happened to all the other dogs from that pound? Why haven't you put up where they have gone and the vet work expenses they need covered? Next time use your own DOL name for this, not Blacktown List.

Is this the best you can do ... :laugh: really, you felt the need to delete your post, it shows you weren't willing to continue with the thread you started as you didn't get the response you wanted and start chucking a tantrum. The link also goes straight to the allegations of the pound failing to give the dog pain relief or vet treatment. Thank you for ignoring all my other concerns about writing under BL again with a seeming bias for a specific rescue. Blacktown List strikes again

I didn’t say you did say anything about Rocky’s – I made the comment that the usual suspects come out to play when it comes to criticising Rocky’s – if you thought I was including you in that group then maybe you are the one who's over-reacting. My head is just fine where it is – but thanks anyway for the suggestion :) I fail to understand why people can’t look at a request for assistance and decide to either assist or not assist – if you don’t like the group, just ignore the request. What is achieved with all the sniping – absolutely nothing. But that's DOL I suppose - lots of many wonderful things happen on here, and then there's the other stuff ... I think maybe you'd have been better off going to the General section and asking other DOL members there for financial assistance for a rescue group. And that is meant in a constructive way. :) I suggest they stay on FB where nothing is questioned and if by chance it is, they can delete what they don't like

I know nothing about any dinner party - I live in another state and do this thread bec no-one in NSW would step up to the plate and help out the state's biggest pound. I saw this request on FB and decided to post on here - I hummed and ahhed whether it would attract the usual muck rakers and snide comments - I thought maybe this time it would be different, but sadly I was wrong. Oh dear, Blacktown List is at it again, I thought it was suppose to be for Blacktown pound dogs. All the other dogs that need out due to age or illness have gone away from the pound threads quietly and with no word from Blacktown List, but one pops up again by BL, instead of using your own log in. Last time it was pound rounders and that is why it is most likely no one wanted to be associated with it and had a hard time finding someone to continue it after Justin did something similar under the name Blacktown List...... And yes, amusing that people are so quick to jump on Rocky's - like iron filings to a magnet, like a record stuck in a grove, the usual suspects come out to play, with the same old clap trap. Did it ever cross your mind that maybe the dog was bandaged before it came to Blacktown? The thread was not about bagging Blacktown Pound, or bagging the group that took Ben on. The wording they used to advertise his plight would not have been my choice, but bottom line is the dog required some assistance. If people would like to help, great. If they don't want to help, can't help, don't like the group - that's fine also - just move on and spare the rest of us the usual crap trap - I for one am over it. Oh really?! not bagging Blacktown Pound but added the allegation of Blacktown Pound failing to get the dog treatment during his two week impoundment.... (now deleted from the first post) Photographs can lie - but there didn't seem to be bedding for him. I didn't say anything about whether he received pain relief or not because I don't know and neither do you unless you have contacted them and spoken to someone who would know. I didn't say anything about Rocky's K9 as it is years since I've had anything to do with Merna. Who knows? She may have changed. I wasn't having a go at you Katdogs; I was just genuinely surprised that you'd never seen the page devoted to Norma on Rocky's K9's website. There was quite a lot posted about it at one stage. You don't know what happened, EXACTLY, no one does, it is just someone banging on about a pound and trying to fund raise with that to raise emotional responses. If someone that has something to do with this dog, and feels that something failed, start talking with Blacktown, not DOL it under Blacktown List. I didn’t say you did say anything about Rocky’s – I made the comment that the usual suspects come out to play when it comes to criticising Rocky’s – if you thought I was including you in that group then maybe you are the one who's over-reacting. My head is just fine where it is – but thanks anyway for the suggestion :) I fail to understand why people can’t look at a request for assistance and decide to either assist or not assist – if you don’t like the group, just ignore the request. What is achieved with all the sniping – absolutely nothing. But that's DOL I suppose - lots of many wonderful things happen on here, and then there's the other stuff ... I am more concerned about who the hell is running Blacktown List, going rogue again are we?? Oh and insulting the forum you post pound dogs on, good job.

My description of the fact that, scientifically speaking, current 'temperament testing is flawed.... is not laying 'blame' on those who use them.... especially Councils. I've used 'flawed' descriptively, not emotionally. I've constantly said pounds/shelters have to do something with what they've already got. And fully understand why Blacktown pound is going to use testing. They can't do nothing. And I don't think you've gone O/T when you say pounds shouldn't be pressurised into doing nothing. One good thing is that the organisation of local government pound managers & staff (Aus. Institute of Animal Management Inc) is right on the ball with how challenging their task is. This group's shown they want to do the best they can do, re both public safety & the welfare of the dogs. The paper, from Monash, that they invited to their 2009 Conference, covers so many of the issues brought up in this thread, It refers to research, gives a great swag of examples of behavioral testing, & comments on their value. The authors are saying.... assessment is needed, it's a case of how. There's great pointers to help pound staff. Don't get put off by the jargon words in the title... what they mean becomes clear in the article. It's a good read....should be circulated widely. Congrats to the authors. http://www.academia.edu/1121691/Reliability_validity_and_feasibility_of_existing_tests_of_canine_behaviour Two articles I am going to be reading thoroughly, thank you for the links mita :)

Understanding the stressors is an idea.... it's in the tester's head. Actually covering that in assessment, means the tester must do something. That's the only way it translates into test results. - Maybe it is not in the tester doing something other than saying - this is what I am seeing, further testing maybe required - that is why 'rescue only' has had its place, some rescues can have more breed knowledge, provide an appropriate environment, and also accept responsibility for the dog knowing the good and the bad - this also has become harder as there is no legal definition of this and has been used as a way of getting a dog out and giving it straight to a private individual rather than keeping the dog in rescue to be given the time to show the existing assessment in the pound. Say a dog is anxious.... and behaving anxiously during testing in the pound. The tester may have inside her head.... that the pound is a stressful place, with strange smells, strange people, strange sights & sounds. But that dog may actually be anxious .... wherever it is. It's a constitutional trait. Or... it may be that the dog is only affected by the pound stressors. And is actually within the bounds of normal in more neutral places. I don't see anxiety as being a pass or fail trait, whether induced by a strange place or inbuilt into the dogs temperament naturally, what a dog does with that anxiety can be seen and given as information to someone interested in the dog so they know what has been observed at time of testing. You're on to that.... when you say it's a good idea for a tester to look beyond the obvious. But what is the obvious... the dog is anxious. And there could be two possible quite different reasons going around in the tester's head. And you have no way of going outside the current pound environment, in time & places, to test for which. So how would that translate into actual objective testing results? Obvious - extreme dog aggression and human aggression I teach testing. And the job of testing is to come up with some objective information that reliably tests what it says it tests. That's what pounds & shelters say they need & want. As the Monash paper said, none of the usual 'temperament' tests have been found to have established predictive value. But , in the meantime,.... pounds have to do something, flawed as it might be. They can't do nothing. Who'd be on a pound staff? A tough job. Sadly to have predictive value is to have intimate knowledge of a history of behavioural traits, and observing the dog in various situations that are not plausible in the pound environment so it is only going to be what is current at the time of testing, and the behaviour observed. That is why I think temperament tests using black and white areas or a point system can be the undoing of people's perception of what temp tests are. Pounds do need to do something, sadly a dog may have lived its life to a natural end if not failed by someone who did not come and get their dog. But to lay blame of a council for implementing a 'flawed' assessment and be publicly pressured by a group with dubious practices and have a history of letting dogs go to anyone with no interest in what the dog needs to have the best chance of living in an environment conducive to their needs is a bit rich (sorry a bit OT) As you said who would want to be pound staff, they have it tough that is for sure....

You're saying you know how a good temperament test will cover stressors in the pound. I'd like to hear about that, as I'm interested in assessment. So how is that done? And what temperament test you know does that? how big an ramble do you want? :laugh: In short, be honest, know it is not a perfect test, to have shades of grey except for the obvious cases of extreme dog aggression and human aggression. To be a guide to where the dog may be best suited compared with just handing them over with no care. I don't want to embarrass you, Malti. :) You haven't answered my 2 questions. But, not to worry. I can't stomach it when I see someone being picked and picked relentlessly on DOL. And I don't intend to do it to you. :) And I've got your general gist. No, it is just a difficult answer You asked So how is that done? (you know how a good temperament test will cover stressors in the pound) the assessor should be able to understand some of the common stressors of a pound. And what temperament test you know does that? as far as I am concerned it is the person doing a temp test, not a temp test itself. So in essence it is not about the temp test but the person IMO and IME, I think it needs to be asked why one thing can fail a dog (other than the obvious) rather than it being an indicator for the positives and the negatives seen in a dog at the time of assessment.

You're saying you know how a good temperament test will cover stressors in the pound. I'd like to hear about that, as I'm interested in assessment. So how is that done? And what temperament test you know does that? how big an ramble do you want? :laugh: In short, be honest, know it is not a perfect test, to have shades of grey except for the obvious cases of extreme dog aggression and human aggression. To be a guide to where the dog may be best suited compared with just handing them over with no care.

You seem so evasive in your answers, maybe pound rounds is mentioned as they are the only 'non rescue group' rescue that has boycotted Blacktown due to the temp testing, other rescues have not seemed to taken such a drastic move in response to temp testing. Plus their dodgy methods of rehoming dogs. Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. What do you suggest in place of temp testing dogs? Do you mind if a dog that is inappropriate to be rehomed harming another dog? Do you understand that a good temp test will cover stressors in the pound? The five dogs were not there for a short period and could possibly be put down to a 52 day accumulation of dogs not deemed suitable to rehome or rescue.

Not an answer to my question. Come back next year with some numbers. ditto

who has accused you of being with pound rounds? What is the alternative to a temp test? Nothing? I vote they go to your house to be evaluated as I don't want to have an untemp tested dog with no idea of what to expect, you on the other hand don't seem to mind.

I didn't say jumping fences, I said dog aggressive fence jumpers, are you happy to have them next to you or in your yard? I think everyone has agreed in a good temp test pound stressors should be taken into account. I also said, those 7 dogs were held for a LONG time, why were they not pulled out when 'rescue' had been found? Please read all of what I wrote, not just the bits convenient to your argument.