koalathebear

Thanks! I'm so glad to have you back! I also said re-hi to you in the Elbie thread. Hope to see you there again soon - and also in the Kelpie thread! Thanks for that. Elbie's fine now, I always worry too much Just in case, we actually took him out at 3.30am for the two nights after his incident but he seems totally fine again about sleeping through the night again. Elbie's been very solid with his toilet-training so far - stands by the door to give a little yip to be let out. Thank goodness HIS toilet-training went well.

It is going to be tricky to toilet-train them if you're at work all day and they're outside but 4pm is nice and early-ish so there you should still have plenty of opportunities to train them when you get home from work. As BigPaw mentions, keep an eye out for when they sniff. Some dogs don't really give you a lot of warning (taking the position etc) so have the door easily opened or already open and be ready for quick dashes. Also, take them out after drinking water and after their meals (I think it's about 15-30 minutes afterwards). Always take them out straight after they have been sleeping as puppies always seem to be very wee-ful post-sleep. Try to take them to the same part of the yard when you take them out to toilet. Not only does this help with clean-up, but it helps them to understand what you're trying to make them do. You may find that two dogs, one dog will distract the other dog from its toileting because it wants to play etc. Just do your best to keep them contained in Poo Corner - move them back to the toilet zone whenever they stray. House-training is one of the most challenging and least fun parts of puppy ownership. We have puppy #2 right now and he's actually remarkably well behaved inside but the last two nights, we were really sleep so foolishly went to bed without making him do number 2s, the end result was a lot of clean-up in the middle of the night. Good luck with it all!

Oh, poor amputee Tag! But the photos are gorgeous - colouring is lovely and they're so vivid!

60km? I was shocked when someone said we should be running our Kelpie cross 7km a day. I realise Kelpies are capable or running more than 60km a day but I'm not sure that they need it to be fulfilled. I spoke to a lot of working line Kelpie people recently and all of them said that a Kelpie is fine as a pet and the exercise requirements are a little over-stated. Intellectual stimulation is critical and Kelpies like to be close to their people. Our Kelpie cross only gets a half hour to 45 minute walk every couple of days but he gets a lot of obedience training every day. I think the main thing is that Kelpies can't just be dumped in the back yard and expected to entertain themselves but to be honest - should that really be done to any dog???

KumaAkita: Don't worry - that's the real-life Hachi. In the movie, I believe they just make Hachi look kind of old and sad-eyed. From memory, there's also a touching flashback montage. I think your OH could make a fortune making Dog Furniture for dog owners! Does he feel like building ramps and and a backyard obstacle course? re BDOC: I figure that all the dogs there have been vaccinated and so it should be safe for him to play there rather than at a park or a dog park. I will ponder it for a future date, this Sunday is likely to be a giant, squishy pit of mud and poo. I have no waterproof shoes .. I bought some gum boots a while back but I realised later that they're too tall and my legs are too stumpy so when I wear them I can't bend my knees or sit down etc. wuffles: I hope you feel better soon. This is foul weather for being ill although it's probably nice to be inside and tucked under your doona when it's raining. Toilet-training Hoover has definitely been challenging with the wet weather this week. We don't want to use puppy pads so it's out there, standing in the rain with dog. It used to take up to 40 minutes but he's getting better now and will actually even ask to be let out sometimes. We can't bring an umbrella because we need to keep moving him back to Poo Corner. He's been pretty good - just two accidents this morning (he was playing and forgot) ... the other one was we snuck him into the office to say hi to some people here and he wee'd all over OH ;) Last night, we had another Panic Poo Incident so have moved his crate next to our bed because he is quiet then. We will have to feed the doggies earlier and no one gets to sleep until Hoover has done his number 2's ... There was so much laundry and cleaning up to do this morning to deal with the aftermath of the Panic Poo Incident - plus we had to bathe the poor puppy all over again because he ended up being Poover instead of Hoover. He was very well-behaved for his bath though and stood still. He's also very well-behaved in the car, which is surprising given that he grew up on a farm and had no car exposure until his Long, Long Journey to Canberra. Elbie's still wary of the intruder but he has been such a good boy - sleeping quietly through the night even though Hoover was very noisy with his crying last night and doing all of his toileting promptly, going to his crate obediently ... I hope he mans up soon though and kicks Hoover out of the dog bed instead of just looking very sad and slinking away ...

How's Roo going today?

Thank you. Neither Elbie nor OH and I quite know what's hit us. I have no idea how you manage with four dogs - I just couldn't do it!!! Excellent! So glad she had a good time and she's performing well. Did OH enjoy the class or was he frustrated? My OH used to be a bit ho hum about it all but he likes the instructors now and he's started chatting to the other handlers so I think he likes it better than he used to. ETA: I mean apart from being happy with Pepper, did he like being the handler, the class format/instructors/other dogs etc. I hope you can bring her one Sunday for a play in the off-lead area. Do you think BDOC offlead would be safe for Hoover? His second set of vaccinations will keep in next week or so. I made some melting moments tonight for Hoover's Debut on Saturday morning but they were a bit of a failure. Please forgive me in advance.

Ears stand-off Elbie: "I can make my ears stand higher than you!" Hoover: "Yeah? We'll see about that!" One solution is to gnaw the opponent's ears off Hoover still contemplating world domination He's definitely got my OH fooled

Lack of sleep made me fret a lot about my two monsters today but they seemed to be getting more accustomed to one another today. The danger is that they'll become too attached to one another and not pay attention to us! Elbie seems to have taken his bed back but Hoover hates the large travel crate that we bought him and has instead taken possession of Elbie's metal crate. Hoover unfurls his Yoda Ears and prepares to taxi down the runway ... Elbie contemplates the strange new creature that has entered his world and is competing with him even in the wonky ears stake OH says Hoover's just a puppy and not an Evil Mastermind, but I'm not convinced ... "If I concentrate really hard, my ears will stand up." Hoover and Elbie smile for the camera Hoover contemplates world domination Still contemplating world domination ... Kelpie and kelpie cross bums

lilli_star: So sorry to hear about Roo. When Elbie gets runny poo we give him rice and chicken and that usually sorts him out. I hope Ruby feels better soon. I know what you mean about being up all night for your dog and then having people think it's hilarious that you're so dog-devoted ... OH definitely didn't pay that much for the Kong Wobbler in Canada. It's like how the Tuffie toy range here is much less than overseas. Ah well .. Niques: those CleanRun toys look very cool. Will definitely be picking up some prezzies for the two monsters from there. The story of Hachi is sooooooooo sad - I hate that when he died, they discovered he had worms and was all diseased and neglected. Poor, poor Hachi. As to hyperactive tags ... OH took Hoover to the vet this morning and they all adored him. The vet's nurse then proceeded to describe Elbie as "a nutter". She was the one that always wound him up and drove him nuts! He is a bit nuts but that's why I love him. KumaAkita: I love the kennel! Those black kongs always look a bit scary to me though ... I wonder why they have to make them so black. betsy: thanks so much for sharing photos of ziggy. So cute! In the first photo, he looks like a miniature Bernese Mountain Dog. Some photos coming up ...

It's like Dog wants us to get soaking wet during Hoover's house-training ... Primedogs: the thread is here.

wuffles is a good promotional person ... I've just bought two antlers, too

I'm emo, probably PMS and just being a big girl's blouse today so I wouldn't be too fussed about anything I've said causing worries about derailing training This from the person who was sniffling into her coffee and dabbing at her eyes at the thought of Elbie the Pitiful Omega Dog. Heaps and heaps of people seem to manage to juggle multiple dogs/puppies ... I suspect it's just slightly harder work ... or something

Santa is a brave man to sneak stealthily and unannounced into a house with an Akita - especially with all those reindeer ... He would also be a very brave man to visit our street - sooooo many dogs ... Dogs that don't like the postman wouldn't be crazy about Santa either, I'd imagine.

MavericksMission: I see you lurkin'! Don't forget to give us your insights about two dogs, two male dogs, pack hierarchy!

You are welcome! It's so cool - the guy just shows up in the parking lot of your work on his motorcycle with all the goodies ... Everyone is making fun of me for the dog toys on my desk though. The tug toy is the length of my arm! Thanks for the recommendation about the Busy Buddy Waggle. That looks pretty cool!

Thanks all. I think it's the sleeplessness and dealing with too much puppy poo that is making me anxious. OH told me that naughty Hoover pooped in the wrong spot in the yard and then very soon after that, Elbie also pooped "Out of Bounds". When I expressed concern, OH who never worries about anything because he is a very chilled person (has to be to deal with neuroic me) said: "Don't worry about it. It's been less than 24 hrs. Next you'll tell me you've arranged an emergency K9 Steve intervention." He knows me too well! ETA: How embarrassing.. I put in an order with Puppy Magic, a store in Canberra. They have free delivery in Canberra so I ordered a portable dog dish, a Tuffy starfish and a Tuffy Tug of War. They delivered it to me here at work today but the tug is huge - see here. :D It was kind of embarrassing walking through the building with an armful of dog toys.

Oh, so many things to reply to. Replying to wuffles again – no such thing as hijacking this thread. I thought you knew that by now. KumaAkita posted a photo of her vacuum cleaner, you know!!! The bed-sharing is interesting and the two of them certainly seem very interested in one another and have done some playing. As mentioned to you in the PM, there's just one thing I'm worried about. We got Elbie at 8 weeks of age, he's always preferred humans. Elbie is very submissive to other dogs - doesn't challenge them, walks away if they take his toys. If he is chasing a frisbee, if others come along - he just walks away and isn't possessive about his stuff at all Hoover on the other hand is 11 weeks old and has been with his pack the whole time. Hoover is quiet, super-confident and not aggressive at all but according to his breeder, the other boys in the litter are bullies and fairly rough so he knows how to take care of himself and is used to being around scrappers even though he is himself a quiet one Hoover has been doing things like lying in Elbie's bed or playing with his toys. When he does this, Elbie walks away. Elbie even brings toys to Hoover to play with which Hoover takes and goes off somewhere else to play. If Elbie goes somewhere else, though - Hoover does go running to look for him though. OH's solution at this stage is to get a second identical dog bed for Hoover so that they both have the same bed. Someone very knowledgeable has told me that a common problem people experience when they introduce new dogs, is to have human expectations of equality and fairness - and to try to have these things happen in the pack. The person said that dogs have no concept at all of equality or fairness and only recognise hierarchy and that when people take steps to create an artificial dominance order which favours the original dog (or the one they have the greatest emotional attachment to), it just causes problems. She said we should just leave the dogs to sort it out as they see fit and if Elbie ends up being lower in the pecking order, then that's where he'll be happiest ... As a "human" though and as one of the humans who made the decision to bring in a new dog, it is hard to accept and I do feel very guilty at potentially having relegated my poor darling Elbie to the Omega of the pack. ;) Stupid human. You're right. He's been great so far. The wees were happy/excitement wees and he hasn't had many accidents. Last night we had a massive Poo Incident in the crate which was very gross but that was because Hoover's not crate-trained yet and I suspect it was a Panic Poo. O so much laundry last night! Last night was a tough night for toilet-training though - it was BUCKETING down with rain and OH and I were taking turns standing outside in Poo Corner getting drenched. I didn't sleep at all (mostly because I kept worrying that the DOL Doomersayerse were right ), OH got minimal sleep. The breeder apparently took Hoover away from his littermates and had him sleep in the house in the nights before he came to us to get him used to being 'alone' and she said he was fine - but I suspect she hadn't crated him. He loved his crate when the door was open, but when we closed it at night-time, he screamed for about an hour or two and then settled down. It's an improvement on Elbie who screamed 3 nights in a row - ALL night long. Elbie was an absolute angel though, toileting on command, staying silent even when Hoover was howling and yowling in his crate. I was very happy with Elbie's behaviour. Elbie was in our room in the soft crate and then we moved Hoover into our room too when he yowled. Elbie whimpered a bit at Hoover's crying but then he was very quiet and well-behaved. Can't stand Richard Gere but he does die in that movie so that's fine. The akita used and the shiba inu used were sooooooooooo cute so I cooed over the doggies even if Richard Gere does nothing for me. Interesting questions and all things we have pondered. As Niques and Clastic have pointed out, you can see our ‘pros and cons’ whiteboard in the background of one of our photos. We spent ages talking about it, talking to breeders, talking to WKC, to other dog owners … Elbie is 8 months old. He is fully crate-trained and house-trained. He toilets on command and mostly goes to one section of the yard – Poo Corner. He also sleeps beautifully through the night. We would not have got another dog while we were still house-training Elbie – just too tricky. As it is, Elbie can set an example for Hoover. Most of our training happens at mealtimes so our plan is to feed separately, with perhaps one component where we train them together i.e. “Hoover sit, Elbie drop” etc. Hoover is still in a very early stage – only knows how to sit and come, we can lure him into a drop and we are still in the stage of making him wait for his food. He is a total greedy guts. For training, Hoover can’t enrol in class till next year but when that happens, we will attend Dog School at the same time and OH will have Elbie and I’ll be taking Hoover through beginners. We both share handling/training duties for both dogs. As for kids. My brother says we have clearly picked dogs over kids. We have not ruled out kids. Neither of us is clucky at all right now but we have no idea how we will feel in the future. If we did get clucky and ended up having kids, we have a great behaviourist nearby who we would trust to help us work through any problems that might arise in terms of introducing dogs to babies etc. I can’t imagine that Kelpies would be a problem with kids, but I do like the knowledge that help is nearby and so happy to help. You will see from this post that a LOT of people wanted to warn us off getting a second pup at this stage and off getting Hoover in particular. We didn't make the decision lightly and even though the time-frame seemed short, I can be pretty determined/obsessive/conscientious when I'm information-gathering. People told us that we'd end up with both dogs dying at the same time, told us we'd undo all of Elbie's training ... some made us feel like this was all going to in tears or a bloody massacre ... What gave us a LOT of comfort was that in an absolute worst case scenario - the breeder would always take Hoover back. We'd never want to do that, but it is a comforting fallback position. ETA: After weeks of zero interest, has been adopted!!! I can't claim credit that the video helped but I'm just so happy for the little pup. :D

Thank you! It's still early days, I know It's just bizarre how it actually wasn't that long ago we were toilet-training Elbie but it seems like years ago!!! Hoover has wee'd but has yet to do number two's and unlike Elbie, he does not know what "poop poop!" means They're both resting now ...

Elbie was definitely easier in many ways. When we got Hoover today, he wee'd EVERYWHERE but then tonight, we have been standing outside in the rain with him for ages and ages and ages trying to make him wee. He drank heaps of water today which is why we don't want to go to bed without wee'ing him :D Ah ... toilet-training ... Elbie really made it seem quite easy Ava has always been so lovely - that smile of happiness.

Yes, OH put down white tarp and the white boards are made of the same material as our jigsaw puzzle board that we use for doing jigsaw puzzles. We have laminate flooring but didn't fancy having dog wee and poop everywhere so the tarp is there to minimise the mess to the extent possible! We do feel a bit psychotic with the tarp - makes us like a bit like Dexter serial killers but anyway ... Poo Corner isn't too small, it's actually quite a large long section of the yard, but off to the side so cleaning it up is pretty easy. It works for us because it's sort of a separate part of the yard. One good sign today was that Hoover accidentally trod on Elbie's poo and recoiled in horror, so it doesn't look as though we'll have a poo eater on our hands. Heh heh. There's something so lovely about having two dogs in the house. And yes, the baboon butt is pretty funny. We only noticed it today. Yes Niques and Clastic, you sharp-eyed people ... that is indeed a "pros/cons" whiteboard setting out the pros and cons of getting a new puppy. The DOLers had me feeling very uncertain for a while ... I was agonising about the decision. When we found out about Hoover, OH took it upon himself to prepare a pros and cons board to go through all of the issues. When I got home, it made me smile and smile and I had a great conversation with 4kelpies and the rest is history ... :D OH and I are determined not to have favourites. We love them both equally. Elbie's our scrappy little mutt from the wrong side of the tracks and Hoover's his working class brother from the bush ... ;) Dearest wizzle, I know it's not aristocratic and he'd never get into Genevieve's private dog school with that name but it really is the name the breeder gave him and it's on his pedigree papers. :D It's because he's a greedy guts ... and we discovered that tonight when we made him wait for his kibble. He really didn't want to wait and just kept hopping forward. By the end he learned though. betsy: Thanks for your kind words. We did ponder for a while whether to get a second dog given Elbie's age etc and some of the DOL predictions were pretty dire, but we think that we can make it work. Elbie and Hoover still aren't too sure of each other but it's just the first day. Hoover's much more chilled and self-possessed than Elbie so he seems a bit peeved at having such a bouncy dog around him. BellaDonna: It is soooo good to see you again. I've thought of you and Katie very often and wondered how you were both going. Just saw your other posts and Katie is still such a cutie. The fact that you're getting a second dog when Katie is six months makes me feel better. ;) Congrats on getting a Kelpie as well!! The Kelpie discussion thread is here. It's kind of quiet, alas, but I'm trying to get it moving. ;) Yes! He looks even more like a bat than Elbie sometimes. They have such different personalities - it's hard to describe but I can't wait to see how they both develop together. Sorry Ruby was feral at puppy school ... on those feral days, there's nothing you can do but endure the paw in the eye and the accidental claw on the chin and smile in a sickly fashion at the other people in the class whose dogs seem so placid by comparision... You may be surprised! But I'm crossing fingers, toes and eyes for you anyway. :D tigers12: Thanks very much... Very soon you'll have a puppy monster, too!

Thanks all for the kind words. Some more photos. As part of his pedigree papers, we have his family tree - which kind of cracks me up that such a little fellow has a family tree. Puppy dog eyes Looking out over the barrier we created which won't keep him contained for long Posing for the camera. We phoned the breeder to let her know Hoover arrived safe and sound and she was very pleased. She says that his father was about 21 kg and she expected a fully grown Hoover to be about 25 kg.

Haha. You're very clever. I wonder how you knew it was her out of all the ones listed. She's a registered breeder recommended by the Working Kelpie Council and very helpful. She warned us that Hoover will be a "big kelpie" and not a "little" Kelpie. Not sure how big he's supposed to grow overall but have asked. Elbie's 15.5kg now at 8 months so he's bigger than Hoover by a bit - not sure how big he will grow overall because he's a crossbreed.

OK, they've met. First in the front yard, then in the backyard, then in the kitchen. They're not playing with each other yet, just skirting around one another but they've sniffed each other out and have gone go sleep in their beds - Elbie on my left: Hoover on my right

Oops, I made a mistake. He's 8kg. Still a chunky monkey though Breeder says he will be a big Kelpie not a little one ... wizzle: his name is really Hoover. Primedogs: How did you know about Kempsey? I don't remember mentioning it. ;) Also - click on the vacuum cleaner above for photos