koalathebear

:D Oh ... I have so much love for Jasper's red and tan son (look at those little golden Kelpie eyebrows! :D, even though he is still just a cute little blob. I can't wait to see how grows up and it would be so great if he's able to be 'shown' - yay for two tones. Thanks for sharing the information and the photos! Is it common for a two tone to just 'appear' from a show Kelpie breeding like that? What a gorgeous surprise. ETA: I did wonder about the chunkiness of some of the show Kelpies - wasn't sure about the rational - health reasons? Was the lankiness of the working lines not regarded as healthy?

Also, last night/early this morning in Canberra we had a VERY noisy thunder and lightning storm! Lots and lots of rain but the thing that worried me was all the thunder. Elbie and Hoover haven't been through a massive noisy thunder storm yet and I was wondering how they'd be. People always say: "If the dog freaks out, maintain a calm demeanour so that they calm down" – they don't say what you're supposed to do if one of the dogs is crated in the kitchen and can't see/hear you!!! Fortunately, both Elbie and Hoover were quiet as mice and very well-behaved. Very relieved that they don't have Storm Phobia because I've read about some dogs tearing up the house when frightened by thunder!

The latest dog for which I was asked to do a rescue video was Brandy, a Kelpie cross who was rescued from Blacktown Pound recently. Alas, Brandy is very much a product of his breed. High energy, a bit boisterous, he likes chewing things, digging holes and pulling washing off of the line, so I felt like I had to be quite honest with his video - albeit in a jokey way ... I hope I have not done him a disservice but I truly believe that owners who are mentally prepared to accept a high energy dog would not be deterred. Anyway, this is the reason I wanted to 'borrow' Clastic's photo of the holes dug by her fur kids.

Thanks clastic! Will let you see how the holey photos are used in good time ... Also, don't worry about the assessment - Mars has got the goods! We were reading the silver assessment sheet today. Elbie can do all the stuff there, he just can't do it consistently yet. OH and I are prepared for and ok with him repeating silver. Because of the structure of the class (eg for recall and the loose lead walking) only one dog at a time can do the tasks and the rest have to stand around waiting - this means that some classes, they do about 1 minute of heeling or not at all and some stuff is touched upon very briefly. Unless you're very conscientious and able like wuffles and ava, garden variety people (like OH and me :p) will struggle to get our dogs up to scratch in time for assessment. I am pretty certain that Elbie should be able to pass silver the second time around. If you don't have a second dog in the next six months, I will eat my non-existent hat. You are so Second Puppy Clucky. Don't worry! People always look at Elbie and what they see depends on their preferred breed. Kelpie lovers say: "He is a Kelpie". Border collie people say: "He is a border collie!" I have two colleagues who are not dog people. When I showed them photos of a Kelpie, they guessed dobermann, blue heeler and border collie :p lilli_star: how did the wedding go? What did you wear? How is Miss Roo? Inquiring minds want to know!

All very interesting replies! Thank you so much for that! I had wondered whether or not certain colours had gone out the window because white was linked with deafness, tan and black linked to a propensity for parvo, dilutes linked to alopecia etc so it's interesting to hear of colours becoming 'endangered' or 'extinct' because of certain preferences and fashions. What happens if trends change again and suddenly multiple colours become en vogue in the show Kelpie world again? I have similar questions for both dancinbcs and stonebridge. dancinbcs said: stonebridge said: When you refer to a "good" border collie and a "nice [Kelpie] dog", are you referring to adherence to the ANKC Standard in terms of appearance and temperament? In stonebridge's case, I'm not meaning to be provocative but if it is not a "nice dog" then on what basis if your "love" of two tones? As mentioned above, I'm assuming that 'nice' means strict conformance to show breed standard, otherwise how can it be possible to love what is not nice unless of course it is a boyfriend and one has the misfortune to have a predilection for falling in love with Bad Boys? ETA: Apologies if my question appears disingenous - I really am asking from the perspective of a pet-owner, so for me "nice dog", "good dog" means a smart dog with a good temperament (doesn't bite and isn't so hideous that he makes my eyes water when I look at him :p I suppose the issue of the two tone Kelpie is that given that it's a working line, its ultimate purpose is to work sheep and so in most cases, the breeders of working lines aren't particularly concerned with colour or overall appearance given that colour seems completely irrelevant for a working dog. Some of the best working Kelpies and border collies are regarded as somewhat 'ugly' by some. Noonbarra are one of the few working line breeders that seemed to be concerned about colour at all, they told me that all their dogs contain the red and tan gene so it seems to be something they care about. For other breeders, they seem more concerned about working ability and temperament. For instance, on the Working Kelpie Council page the Characteristics and Conformation of the Kelpie page (which of COURSE is focusing on working ability rather than appearance) says the following.: There is a discussion of appearance: And this is what it says about colour: On pondering the issue further, I suppose that the answer to my question is that the reason red and tan isn't really acceptable in the show ring is that red and tan is a product of working lines that are bred towards working ability and not conformance to ANKC show standards. Therefore, the likelihood of a red and tan Kelpie being able to adhere in all respects to show standards is slim and it is for that reason that those coloured Kelpies are not acceptance and not the fact that they are two tones. As mentioned, all of this is academic to me - I have one mutt and one pure-bred but both are pets only so I really only care about health and temperament. ETA: Given the variances between show and working lines, I can't help wondering if the two will diverge to a point when they are regarded as two separate breeds.

clastic: those photos of your two in the backseat is soooooooooo cute. Does Pepper have her tongue poking out? As always, Mars is gorgeous. I love how fluffy Pepper is right now. Also, those holes .... They're very impressive! I have a strange request but do you mind if I use a couple of the hole photos for a rescue dog video I'm making? It's weird, I was thinking: "I need some good 'holes in the garden' photos but I couldn't use the one Hoover dug because it looked like he was digging a grave He doesn't stick to the Traditional Round Shaped hold. As mentioned before, Hoover can't 'gate crash' the beginner classes anymore because with the good weather, students came back - but we sat on the sidelines for a bit and then wuffles showed up with Ava so the two had a bit of a play in the off-lead area. Some video is They actually played a lot more than that, but I wasn't filming for most of the time. Hoover seems very unfussed by Ava's energy and speed and he keeps going back for more - he did have a fascination with eating the grass though which I suspect is going to haunt me tonight when he throws it all back up again. We played Rockband 3 - we did 11 songs in a row and the two doggies were sleeping in their dog beds nearby. Elbie was baffled by the microphone at first but then went to sleep. OH accidentally released a drum stick, it flew through the area and fell on top of a slumbering Hoover - who continued to sleep ...

Yes, the bench Kelpies are a little bit more solid in shape but the colour aspect is the thing that intrigue me a little.

I have no interest in showing so this is just a purely academic question from curiosity. Recently, when I went on the Great Kelpie Hunt, I was after a red and tan Kelpie. I was told that generally show Kelpies are solid colours and that it's only the working line Kelpies that have red and tans/black and tans. I emailed a few bench Kelpie breeders and they were only breeding solid colours even though a couple did own some red and tans, they also knew of no bench Kelpie breeders that had recently bred or had any intention of breeding red and tans in future. If you look at the Australian Kelpie standard (show Kelpie) over in the Breeds 101 forum, it says: I was therefore very curious about why two tones are still technically within the standard but are generally never considered show-quality? Is this because: two tones are less conforming to standard in other aspects? it is not permitted for a working line Kelpie to be 'shown' and it's easier to maintain a distinction between show and working line using colours? the intention is to eventually create different breeds that are distinguishable from one another? What makes solid colours 'better' in terms of showing, given that there must have been a reason why the solid colours were given preference. As far as I know, while the dilute colours among Kelpies can have alopecia, there aren't any other traits (health or temperament) associated with the colours. I'm not trying to stir up debate about show vs working line - just curious about reasons for certain decisions, whether they were motivated by cosmetics, health-reasons, other reasons etc. Some photos .. Bench Kelpies Working Line Kelpies. I know that appearance varies a LOT among the working Kelpies - lots of colours from black through to light tan or cream and that some Kelpies have a white blaze on the chest. I've just picked out some two-tones ETA: Posted here rather than in the Kelpie sub-forum because although there are a lot of Kelpies in Australia, the Kelpie sub-forum is quiet quiet compared to other sub-fora on DOL.

Although Hoover now loves Hills, too, both Elbie and Hoover have transitioned most happily over to Royal Canin.

You're very welcome! There were a few things I would definitely have done differently the first time around with Elbie. We did it better the second time around with Hoover although in hindsight, I could have avoided the panic poos by feeding him earlier and keeping him closer :D Another recommendation is for the first few nights, only put very washable toys and blankets in with the puppy - I'd opt for towels over blankets to be honest. I put in my favourite cute little hot water bottle with a knitted penguin cover for Elbie and it was so covered with poo that I just had to throw it out ... Have a bucket ready on the deck for any soiled blankets so that you can dump them in there and then do all your washing in the morning ;) Keep plenty of paper towels and Urine-Free/other similar sprays handy so that when the accidents happen you're prepared and not scrambling around looking for stuff. :D

So beautiful and clear! Thanks for sharing.

Actually I meant that colour and clarity of her eyes. They look so human! Some doggies have scary eyes but Ava's eyes look very human ... We use towels for our two, too but I gosh I wish that Elbie wouldn't attack his red towel. ;) I have ordered Kuma's birthday present today. It took me a while to decide what to buy but I have decided. :p Also, I have two rescue dog videos to do but am completely stumped so decided to do a video for Elbie and Hoover - no, not to rehome them, just because ...

Good plan :p I'm sure your puppy will do fine. Hoover only whimpered for part of the first two nights and then was very well-behaved. Some puppies wail for a week, some not at all. Is there any way you can put the crate in your bedroom, at least for the first few days? You can slowly migrate the crate away and off to the sun-room after a few days? The puppies seem to settle much better when they know you're nearby and it's less disruptive for you if you can be in your own bed and bedroom We were told that you're supposed to ignore the dog's crying so as not to reinforce bad behaviour but the problem for us is that we couldn't tell the difference between: (1) I am crying because I miss my mum and my littermates; and (2) I am crying because I need to go to the toilet :p So when Elbie was howling and crying the whole night through, when we did take him out, we discovered that he had soiled his crate beyond belief.... That was even with the crate in our bedroom just a few metres away from our bed! I felt so bad because the poor little thing was probably screaming because he was stuck in his own filth and very uncomfortable. Elbie's very stubborn and he didn't get tired so he was literally crying, howling, screaming barking the whole night long - then he'd nap during the day to regain his strength. :D We were seriously worried that the neighbours were going to report us to the RSPCAS. Most pups shouldn't carry on the same way, Elbie was a special case because we discovered later that he was used to sleeping in a human bed with the kids ... no wonder he didn't like his crate :p In the end (on day 3 or 4 when I was exhausted, ready to burst into tears and return the damned dog), what worked for us was that we put a box next to our bed and the crate on top of that so that Elbie could see us. Then we put our fingertips into the crate so that he could lick them i.e. we stopped him crying in the first place. When he fell asleep, we withdrew our fingers and washed our hands. He slept very peacefully and then only woke up and whimpered if he needed to go to the toilet. We were taking him out to toilet every 2 to 2.5 hours anyway so basically there was no more crying. After a few days, we moved the crate to the floor next to the bed, then further back from the bed then after a week, we moved Elbie into the kitchen and he was fine. When we moved house and Elbie was in a 'new kitchen', he whimpered for about half an hour the first night but then he was fine. With Hoover, he cried for a few hours (his crate was next to a long-suffering Elbie). The distress made him soil his bed and we cleaned him up and then moved his crate next to the bed. Second night, we tried putting him in a different crate but he got upset and soiled that crate, too - howling for hours. Soooooo for Hoover, we just fed him earlier, made sure he was as close to empty as we could get him by bed time and put his crate near the bed. He was fine by night three and hasn't messed his crate since then. Hoover we got at 12 weeks so we only toileted him at bedtime, once at 3.30am and then once first thing in the morning. Good luck though - the crate-training/toilet-training/settling in period for a puppy is pretty stressful but it does pass Now both dogs are great and know how to ask to be let out. They MOSTLY toilet in the designated spot in the yard and know to return to their crates after that for a further snooze if required. Having one fully toilet-trained certainly made things a lot easier because Hoover copies Elbie these days. They'll go out and wee in unison and when Hoover sees Elbie doing number 2s, he copies him.

I think all puppies are stressed when first going into a new home but most settle down. My first pup took 3-4 nights to settle down, my second pup settled down within 2 nights. Maybe see how you go without the DAP first before you try it? We have DAP on hand but to be honest, you can usually settle your pup on the first few nights by: putting the crate near your bed. Generally ignore the pup but if you have to, you can put your fingers in the crate so the pup can lick your fingers putting something that smells like you near in the crate put an alarm clock in the crate put a little radio with late night radio (Radio National is nice and boring enough) near the crate put a soft plushy toy in the crate I'd only use the DAP as a last resort. Not saying the pup could get addicted or anything, but 'arrival anxiety' is so normal that it's worth just working through it normally before resorting to chemicals. Elbie was an angel by day but a complete screaming, crying, howling demon at night. He seriously cried ALL NIGHT LONG for about 4 nights and it took us a bit to figure out what we were supposed to do about it because we had tried most of the tips people give you.

Wow, Ava's eyes look stunning here: We wash Hoover in the bathtub inside because he's still smallish but poor Elbie gets washed out in the yard. How do you dry Ava off? In the bathroom with lots of towels or do you have a hairdryer handy?

Looks like Hoover and Monkey are still friends, though. Pensive Hoover. Overly curious Hoover Winsome Hoover What Hoover's doing right now. While I was changing the bed sheets, Hoover plonked himself by the window in the sunlight and decided to fall asleep. Very uncomfortable position but he seems to like it. OH is in there supervising him now because we still don't trust Monsieur Hoovér on his own in any rooms. That's right, Elbie is Signor Elborino and Hoover is Monsieur Hoovér. We bought a bunch of lamb flaps, Royal Canin and treats for the monsters today. Hope everyone's having a great weekend. It's quite overcast here and I'm worried it will rain or be wet for Dog School tomorrow ...

Hoover has the dopiest eyes OH is always asking him: "Is there any intelligence in there?" Fortunately Hoover is smart, he just still has dopey puppy eyes. Video of dopey puppy eyes .He has a funny way of sitting on the stairs sometimes. of the stair-sitting.Not sure why the little monster is so sleepy Viciously attacking his plush monkey

Glad Roo's ok. You've got heaps of toys for her in preparation for her convalescence so I'm sure she'll be ok just chilling out in her crate and about the house ... Good luck with the wedding as well - you could dress up the black with other colours. I seem to have a wardrobe full of black as well ... :| Monster #1 and Monster #2 waiting for a dog treat. We have decided that Hoover's ears and plaintive expression make him look like Dobby the Elf from the Harry Potter series. You be the judge. It's been a bit cold here in Canberra these past few days so OH has taken to mollycoddling the monsters again.

Thanks! It's been a bit cold in Canberra yesterday and today so we brought the blankets back out for the doggies. Not just one, but two sleeping monsters! ETA: Sleepy puppy Sleeping puppy - what an uncomfortable pillow!

My working line Kelpie working hard ...

Heh you'd be right. He's very placid mostly but when he's wound up he is pretty bouncy. He's such a cuddly little dog. You're so lucky! If Kuma pooped as much as my monsters did, you'd be wading through it within minutes. We're hoping to make the visit to see "K9 Steve" (as OH calls him) early next year, depending on a variety of factors. He's so popular though that it's really difficult to book in to see him :D It's usually a 2-3 month waiting period and while at the time I book we're ok, we never know how things will be that far down the track. You poor, poor thing ... I hope you can have a nice relaxing time in December ... I am hoping for some chill-out time then as well ... Niques: Thanks :D We love him to bits even though he's a bit bonkers. We can't believe what a contrast in temperaments our two doggies have. Max#1: What a great trick - it's like you're preparing for doggy dancing! How did you teach Max that trick??? Also, showing your face is fine It is nice to 'see' you. You may enjoy of the monsters running around the yard. They're both very fastFinally, Zombie Kelpie Dog: "Imhotep .... Imhotep ....!" (for those of you who have seen The Mummy).

Not sure how he can sleep like this, but it works for him

Well presumably all ethical registered breeders had to start somewhere and even needed to ask a first question (whether on DOL or elsewhere) ... unless like Athena, they all burst forth from the head of Zeus fully-grown, fully-armed and completely knowledgable in the ways of correct dog breeding ... Even for those of us (like me) who will never become breeders, questions like this are interesting because they can result in interesting and instructive responses.

Yup ... Take a look at Elbie. So good with tricks, very trainable, very responsive but incredibly hyperactive/neurotic in new circumstances. I consider myself lucky because he normally calms down within 5-10 minutes but it is very embarrassing/exhausting introducing him to non-dog people sometimes because he just goes bonkers and looks completely undisciplined. :D Alas, no Dogs Day Out for us. Hoover gets his final shots on Monday and then 2 weeks after that he will be Protected and may Play Everywhere With Impunity.

Looks can be deceptive! I frequently sing Lady Gaga's 'Monster' at both our Monsters Wonderful photos - looks like she's well and truly tuckered out from her adventures. :p lilli_star: Oh gosh, poor you and poor Queen Ruby. I am sure she'll be fine but I understand you missing her! I know people disagree about the right time to desex, but to be honest I really think you're doing the right thing. Having an entire female any older than six months can be so tricky - I had a friend whose dog went into heat at six months and she had to crate her the whole time because of all the neighbourhood dogs ... People can say what they like about 'waiting' but if Roo was accidentally impregnated, the might of DOL Wrath would descend upon you like a thousand angry crows ... It's also safer for her in the long run given cancer risks and that sort of thing. I often feel Guilty because poor Elbie was desexed at a mere 10 weeks but as you can see, he seems very fine and healthy ... albeit a bit gangly Take care of yourself and give Miss Roo a big hug when she comes out. She and James are the lab puppies by which I judge all lab puppies.