koalathebear

Well given that we generally only take the dogs out when there are both of us, even if one of us got caught up with something, I'm sure that the other could go out and tend to the dogs. Of course one can never account for all unforeseen events and a giant meatball of catastrophic proportions could fall out of space and kill us both, thereby condemning our dogs to a sad and lingering death. In any case, 7pm in Canberra is usually not THAT hot and I am pretty comfortable our dogs can last for 5-10 minutes ... But to save time, I'll report myself to the RSPCA now...

I'm trying to just imagine what a fat whippet would look like! :D Every whippet I've seen has always been so svelte!

Thanks for the answers, was just curious. We don't tend to go out on very,very hot days to start with because it gets horribly hot here. If it's going to be a longish visit to the shops, we don't bring them. If it's a medium visit, then one of us will sit on a bench outside the shops with the dogs while the other one goes in. OH sometimes brings the dogs with him to pick me up from work so on the way home we'll stop briefly at the shops to pick up any last minute provisions (5-10 minutes at the local IGA at around 7pm or so) and sometimes we'll have called ahead to pick up food so it might be 5 -10 minutes at Florey Dominos (again around 7pm or so). Usually no more than 5 minutes because we've called ahead. We're only a few metres away from the dogs and we can see them at all times as we wait for the pizzas. Next time though, I'll send OH in and stand in front of the car to protect my windows from being smashed in by any DOLers who might happen to be in the neighbourhood :D ETA: I was just telling OH about this thread and he was all: "Given that we never leave the dogs alone in the car when it's hot, why would you even get involved in a discussion like that just for the sake of it?"

So if you're out on a hot day and you need to duck into the shops for 10 minutes - do you drive home first and drop the dogs home before going into the shop? Not trying to cause an argument - just curious about what other people do.

The doggies were very baffled about what I was doing but here are the photos. Elbie waist Hoover waist.

Yoicks, I hope no one ever breaks our car windows. We sometimes leave our doggies in the car for about 5-10 minutes but no one looking at the car would know how long they'd been there. We like to socialise our dogs and bring them along with us for short trips. Sometimes one of us goes inside while the other takes the dogs for a little walk around the shopping centre but if it's just a short trip and we both have to go, then we don't want to tie them up outside where people could pat them/upset them. So if we have to duck inside to buy a few items/pick up some food, we leave them in the car for a little bit with the windows down. Never for very long though. They never seem to mind.

Congratulations on the new puppy! Puppyhood is so exhausting that it's hard to stop and enjoy how cute the puppy is We had two pups in one year last year so went through the pain twice! Question 1 (Sleeptime): It sounds like you're doing the right thing. It's pretty normal for the puppy to cry when it first comes home. Our first pup Elbie cried non-stop (seriously NON-STOP) for the first four or five nights. I was wrecked by the end of the first week. Our second pup Hoover only cried for two nights, but that was quite traumatic because by that time Elbie was trained and we had 'forgotten' how traumatic it was. We erred on the safe side and took our pups out every two hours until they were more settled - then it was very 2.5 hours, then every 3 hours then every 3.5 hours. I wouldn't be too worried about the crying - Thor's just missing his litter mates and mother. Elbie cried longer because he used to sleep in the same bed as the breeder's children so of course he wasn't going to like his crate The important thing is to take him out at regular intervals, don't play with him during those times. One thing we found helped with Elbie was to pop his crate on top of a box and put it next to our bed so that he could see us and we could put our fingertipsinto his crate so that he could sniff them before he fell asleep. With Hoover, he seemed to settle by just being close to our bed where he could see us. Question 2 (Indoor messes): These are kind of inevitable. It will take a little while before Thor realises where he's supposed to go so as others have pointed out, take him out regularly after meals and water. We would grab our two and race outside as well and they learned pretty quickly. The issue we had was getting them to realise that house-training rules apply throughout the whole house eg both of them would wee in the lounge because it's a room that's not used very often and I guess for them it was part of 'outside'. We had lots of paper towels ready and that "Urine Free" spray to spray on the ground when cleaning up after the puppies. It seems like house-training lasts forever but as long as you remain vigilant and consistent, they do pick it up. The next step will be teaching him to tell you he wants to be let out - another whole set of challenges. Question 3 I can't help you with because we were lucky enough to be at home during early puppyhood for out doggies and also we have a dog door so others can assist. Question 4: We were home full time with our dogs for ages and both of them adapted to us not being around. We got them used to it by putting them in yard for longer stretches of time (your pup is too young for that right now) but also things like going into different rooms etc. I guess we were lucky that our first dog was quite adaptable and our second dog had the first for company. So that they didn't become toooooo attached, we do take them out separately and sometimes when we leave, once is in the house and one is in the yard - just so that they get used to alone time. For Elbie we left frozen kongs and scattered kibble. These days, we freeze giant ice blocks for them and scatter kibble. Question 5: Feeding - can't help you here. Both our dogs are total greedy guts ... Good luck with Thor!

We went through a similar experience in May last year. We took him to the new place for a lot of visits before we moved in but he was still a little anxious when we moved in. He settled in pretty quickly though - all of his toys helped him settle in and his usual crate made him settle quickly - from memory he only whimpered the first night and then settled in pretty quickly. It took him a very short time to realise he had a new 'domain' Good luck with the move!

Just another flyby from me, will catch up soon. Hope all the Canberra doggies are unfazed by the strange thunder storms of the afternoon. Our two seem immune to thunder now which is a relief. I've been occupied with funeral and wake preparations - poor doggies have been sadly neglected. We had the funeral/farewell for Papa Koala this morning and although it seems strange to say it, it was incredibly beautiful. It was a gorgeous and sunny day and I couldn't believe how many people showed up. Many weren't 'invited' - they just showed up through word of mouth or because they'd read the death notice in the paper. Former colleagues from recent times and also from many years ago. There were many funny stories, happy stories - there was no dressing up of stories, making dad out to be some kind of perfect person he wasn't - they were genuine, wry, heartfelt stories of affection and love. There were work colleagues that during dad's illness visited him at home and at the hospital every day, sometimes twice a day with coffee and conversation. There were people who hadn't seen him for years but came to pay their respects. People were openly sad but there were more smiles and happy memories than sadness. Seeing grown men wiping their eyes as they told me things about dad was oddly comforting. It was also weird how much dad's former colleagues knew about us, how they said that they felt like they knew us because he was always talking about his kids, about his family. One guy drove seven hours from Melbourne to attend the service, another guy drove three hours from the coast ... There were many flowers and we were standing in a huge garden under a huge gum tree with a beautiful blue sky around us and I know that Papa Koala would have liked the service, that he would have been a bit surprised by the large turn-out and he would have laughed louder than anyone else at the jokes. For the wake, both my brother and I were baking like demons yesterday so we had stacks of food. I'm still so sad about losing him but there's something extremely lovely about know that so many people out there cared about him and miss him now that he's gone. Speak soon!

I always get a bit nervous whenever someone takes their dog past and other people comment critically that it's too fat or too thin. Our dogs get weighed when they go to the vet but not so much in between. We think that they are healthy weight but presumably every does. Then there was another thread here where someone thought that their dog was too thin but it was actually not ... Here are some photos from today - would someone more knowledgable about dog weight than I be able to tell me if you think that they look healthy weight? The black and white dog is an 11 months old Kelpie/Border Collie cross and the red and tan is a 7 months old working line Kelpie. I've read about the 'waist' thing so I tried to take close-ups of their 'waists' ... Thank you very much in advance!

I know nothing about it but love the photos and am just trying to imagine how I'd feel if I was in the water and saw such a gorgeous-looking dog approaching me.

Only a flyby post because I have had an absolutely Shocking day so will catch up a bit later. Here are two doggies in a crate.

Are you talking about MY doggies??? They're not show Kelpies! The red and tan is a WKC-registered Kelpie and the black and white mutt is a Kelpie/Border Collie cross - again working lines. They do get dirty but dirt seems to fall off of them. They don't actually work though, they're lazy pets.

It's such an awful situation and I can only guess what might have happened. I have to admit I often get very worried about how people approach strange dogs. Adults and children alike frequently pat our two when we're out without asking first. Our two aren't aggressive at all so having a strange hand stuck in their face doesn't faze them but I can't help thinking that it's a very dangerous practice because you just don't know how the dog will react. I don't anyone (child or adult) has ever said: "Is it ok to pat him?" before patting one of our dogs ...

"I am bored. Play with me." "What?"

Finished chapter 28 tonight. Some very provocative and thought-provoking topics. First of all, I'm not sure what Parsons means when he talks about 'culling'. For instance: "You will always breed some culls" and in another spot he says, don't worry if this dog doesn't work well, you can always cull it. I'm not sure if he means removing it from the breeding pool e.g. make it a pet, or if he literally means cull as in putting it down ... Secondly, the big contentious topic is his discussion of Show/bench Kelpies vs true working line Kelpies. He appears to have had some dealings with show Kelpies and even done some judging. There are some that regard the show Kelpie as being a totally different breed. On page 229, he says: "The first debate is whether the show Kelpie really is a different breed from the working Kelpie or whether, as the Bilsons have written: it's the same breed but developed for a different purpose." Then he says: "Before taking you back to where the show Kelpies come from, I'll briefly be the devil's advocate for the show Kelpie fraternity who believe that the show or bench Kelpie is a 'purer' Kelpie than the working strain dogs and, if that matters at all, they've got a point. In actual fact, 'purity' isn't worth spit if it isn't accompanied by genuine working ability. The show Kelpie people, or those passionate about their strain, believe that the working Kelpie is a crossbred dog, and to a certain extent, they're right. Many of the best working Kelpies, some of them immortal dogs and always described as Kelpie, were in fact part Border Collie. ... If you outcross your Kelpies to a different breed, either Border Collie or dingo, you change the makeup of the breed, which is what the supporters of the show Kelpie have said over the years; that is, that the working Kelpie is a crossbred dog and the show Kelpie is 'pure'." Very interesting. Also interesting was the discussion of how the show Kelpie has changed over the years: "Today, a show Kelpie is fairly identifiable in type and characterised mostly by its dark red or chocolate colour, but there have been show Kelpies over the years that would have passed muster as working Kelpie type dogs. One such dog was Grand Champion All Black, a black Kelpie owned by Mrs AF Parkes of Hornsby, NSW. I saw this dog when he was quite old and, as his picture shows, he had plenty of leg under him and he could move, too. And there were others. But the influence of city breeders began to tell in a number of ways: we find as we look at the pictures of Kelpies over the years that they began to lose their angulation and become straight in shoulder and straight in stifle, even though the standard describes what is desired." He then goes on to say that although a lot of show Kelpie breeders have dogs that have a degree of herding/working ability, that does not make it a 'true' working dog with true ability. I suspect there's a degree of snobbery on both sides, what's funny is that even even within the working Kelpie scene, there seems to be snobbery and dissent regarding true working Kelpies and the Kelpies bred for trial-work. Parsons says: "The primary consideration in judging a working dog is working ability! If working ability is non-existent, then a Kelpie is a Kelpie in name only... There may be some vestigial ability [in show Kelpies] so that the dogs may appar to be 'working' but the standard of work is far below those dogs that are not selected for looks." I'm not sure you can argue with that. Even if show Kelpies do have working ability, presumably that's a 'bonus' given that being a working dog is no longer their 'primary' purpose. It seems to be pretty clear that working Kelpies and show Kelpies have different purposes today. Then there are my two doggies - OH keeps joking that our two Kelpies could have been used to start a third line of Kelpies called the Pampered Couch Potato Kelpie In any case, not trying to start a debate - just always find the whole show/working line Kelpie debate quite, quite fascinating. Next, I found it funny that Parson remarks a couple of times that: "The ideal combination is a dog that runs lightly and holds its tongue up in the roof of its mouth". I am still wondering why it's the case that the perfect Kelpie runs while holding its tongue up in the roof of its mouth - does he mean the dog isn't panting while it's running? Finally, there was a topic that I've always found really interesting being the Kelpie/Border Collie comparison. Parsons is of course a Kelpie person, but he is very respectful of the Border Collie and very honest in the fact that the Kelpie is derived in large part from the Collie. When we went to the herding trials in Bredbo recently, it was the three dog trials and we were told that BCs were usually heaps better at it than Kelpies and Kelpies tended to be a bit crap at it - although there was one Kelpie there that did really well. I also find it interesting that people tend to be either Kelpie people or Border Collie people - when we took Elbie to be 'tested' for herding ability, the guy who did it was pro-BC all the way and said he'd never use a Kelpie on sheep because he preferred Border Collies. I guess I find the division quite interesting given how closely related the Kelpie and the Border Collie are. Parsons of course takes us back to 1920 and Bantry Girl, arguably the most famous Kelpie x border collie trial bitch in Australian history. Here she is: She was a yellow and white and although it was said that she was 7/8 Kelpie in breeding, her pedigree contained 4 crosses of Collie so she could hardly have been more Kelpie than Collie. Apparently "she worked more like a Kelpie than a Collie... " though and she was an important dog in the development of Australian Border Collies. Parsons says: "To me the most striking difference between Kelpie and Border Collie is in nature, temperament or mental attitude to work. This is a generalisation, of course, because there are wide differences within the breeds, but by and large the Kelpie lacks the degree of 'biddability' that is the hallmark of many Border Collies. In general, the Kelpie not only is more inclined to do things itself, but wants to do so. It does not like too much correction; it is by nature a fairly natural worker and once the rough edges are knocked off its waywardness it often feels it knows the job better than its boss." He then says: "As a South African correspondent put it to me: 'If you give a Border Collie a command, he will look at you and ask "What next?" If you give a Kelpie a command, he will look at you and ask: "What for?"" I also found the discussion interesting about how Border Collie breeders had access to better gene pools - they could get them from overseas but Kelpie breeders were largely limited by the Australian market because this is kind of where Kelpies come from etc. He also remarked that generally, Australian stockmen aren't as good/diligent as handlers of sheepdogs as their UK counterparts, don't spend the same time with their dogs or put in the same degree of training. All very thought-provoking stuff.

I agree! What a wonderful site. Thanks Dju for the link :D That will sort of save me a lot of money as I spend a lot of money

I've read publicly available material about Kelpies on the Internet and the book contains fascinating material that I can't get on the Internet so that's why I chose to buy it. I use the local library a lot, but there are some books out there that I just like to 'own'.

Yoicks, I have fallen behind. KumaAkita - I love that photo. Close favourite to the one with Mr KA carrying Mini KA on his shoulders. Sadly enough, that photo seems to have disappeared from the thread :'( Maybe a glitch with Flickr? Betsy: Snakes? Yoicks! I am always worried about what my two would do if they found a snake. Elbie would probably keep his distance but I'm afraid Hoover would try to eat it. :D Lilli_star - oh poor Lucky .. so mangy-looking ... I'm sure she'll pluck up and look perky and healthy in no time. Those working dogs are so resilient! Tougher than an old boot I LOVE Ruby's new palacegazebo. She looks very majestic! As for feral dogs ... I've taken to walking Elbie on his easy-walk harness again - he walks like a dream on it, no pulling, pretty relaxed. Except when he sees cars - they seem to be exciting him a lot so the other day he saw too many cars and got really excited and started pulling so hard he made himself limp and I had to switch him back to his flat collar for the rest of the way home. I stopped and started every time he pulled and it took me forever to get home and I was in a foul mood, so we went back to basics a few days ago and we're just walking up and down our home street. Heeling, walking, jogging, walking. He is walking beautifully on a loose leash right now but I'm going to stick to our street for another week or so. As to eating poo, a few weeks ago, Dog only knows why, but Hoover decided he liked eating Elbie's poo Thankfully the phase only lasted a week or so and now he has no interest. Phew... Max#1: welcome back! We're going to have to resolve this 3 issue. Can't you copy and paste a 3/# from a webpage or word doc? ravenau1: I love that Astrid has huge paws like Hoover. I keep wondering how big our monster is going to end up because of his paws. Also, I suppose it's a given but I LOVE her wonky ears. For the toilet-training, Elbie had a bad habit of just standing by the door silently as if we were supposed to read his mind or something. Drove us bonkers because sometimes we weren't paying attention to what they were doing. Both he and Hoover had little accidents because we didn't get to them in time at the kitchen door. We thought about a bell but decided our monsters would probably eat the bell. So we just taught them to give one bark when they want to be let out. Basically we stand at the door with them and woof once at them. Eventually both of them caught on and they give a very small woof to be let out we felt like dorks the first few times we woofed at our dogs though. Kyliegirl: Echo is gorgeous! So sleek, shiny and solid-looking. I'd be cuddling him like crazy. Welcome to the thread - so glad you've decided to join in I often wonder what the various Thread Lurkers are thinking Niques - welcome back and yay for the safe return of James the Wombat Perhaps he picked up bad Kelpie ways while kennelled. Clastic - so glad the first day at work went well. I always find starting in a new place traumatic. I have an unblemished track record of always hating my workplace for the first bit and wanting to go back to my old one. Lovely photos of the house - love the dogs welcoming us in that photo there ... Are they allowed free rein of the house or just selected bits? The backyard looks a good size - but is it fully fenced? In that photo it looked like it was partially open!

The book is very fascinating and absorbing and keeping me from my latest jigsaw puzzle. I'm up to chapter 18. I'm loving the bits about the origin of the Kelpie and I like a little bit about the history of the people involved in the breeding of the Kelpie but some of the rather long chapters about entire families are a bit hard-going given that I'm more interested in the dogs. For now, I'm only skimming quickly over the herding training instructions because it's not something I'm familiar with yet and will revisit those chapters after I've watched a few more herding trials - there are some at the end of February in Canberrra. Interesting things so far: 1. Didn't know that there was a poem about Kelpies. 2. Love the very detailed discussion of the origins of the Kelpie among the UK Collies. Also interesting is the dismissal of the theory of infusions of dingo blood - Parsons is emphatic that while there have been breeders introducing dingo blood in, dogs with dingo in them tend to make bad sheep dogs so the trend went against trying dingo blood. I like all the different theories - honestly, Kelpies sound like they might have been a complete hodgepodge of all sorts of things. p68: "How many people looking at these two photographs below would imagine they were anything but Kelpies? They're not - they're early dogs of the German Shepherd breed before the breed as we know today was developed." Parsons dimisses the notion that there's any GSD blood in Kelpies but he concedes that it's easy to see why some people might have thought that it was there. 3. Some other interesting observations. p107: "... if the average Kelpie is treated sensibly, there is on easier breed to maintain in the entire canine world. I am convinced of that. Unfortunately, it is not always treated sensibly and its reputation for hardiness often works against it. Many people on the land have grown up with the mistaken belief that a Kelpie can get by on the smell of an oily rag, as the saying goes." 4. Also this observation. p 110: "Most Kelpies in the bush do not receive the same degree of care and attention as do dogs bred in the city. City breeders often carry care of their dogs to extremes. I have known dogs that received better food and attention that some children." I had assumed like many others that the name Kelpie came because the first 'Kelpie' was named Kelpie but Parson goes through some other possible origins of the name which I found interesting.

megan_: The poos are extremely solid but the flies still seem to know where the dogs have gone. I might have to try hosing down the area every morning or something. Even really early in the morning when it's still quite cool, there are a lot of flies around so it's quite frustrating.

From the msnbc photoblog. Caption: A dog, "Leao", sits for a second consecutive day, next to the grave of her owner, Cristina Maria Cesario Santana, who died in the week's catastrophic landslides in Brazil, at the cemetery in Teresopolis, near Rio de Janiero, on Jan. 15. Brazilians braced for more rain Saturday, fearing further landslides after walls of muddy water tore through towns and claimed some 550 lives in the country's worst flood disaster on record. * Beautiful photo, beautiful dog. :D

I was lucky and able to get mine from fishpond when it was $127 instead of the $149 it appears to be now. I had a peek and there's so much information in there, I'll have to take notes so that I can post thoughts in this thread as I go Hope you get your copy from the library soon!

Yes, they fell down for a while and were well and truly wilted after he was desexed, but they went back up again on 26th December and have been Up ever since - although they go back and Dobby-Like whenever he's excited and in wiggle-bum mode :D Poor Elbie's left ear is very wilted in the above photos ...

I have been wanting "The Kelpie" by Tony Parsons for some time. I didn't buy it in the lead up to Christmas because it was possible that I'd get a copy from Santa. In the end, no one got it for me because everyone assumed someone else would have bought it for me, so as soon as it was 'safe', I bought it for myself. :D Here are the doggies posing with the book. It's a pretty huge book! OH remarked it's as large as the Yellow Page I've been using to teach the doggies rear-end awareness - although this book definitely does not get put on the ground and stepped on by dog paws.