koalathebear

Daisy - so sorry to hear this. I'm glad that you're as ok as you can be given the circumstances. It must have been extremely upsetting for you I'm not sure what I'd do if faced with this situation - from memory, people have said to grab one of the dogs' hind legs like a wheelbarrow... Please take care!

I predict kaboom here and here. Not sure why we needed another one let alone two threads on the contentious topic of breeder responsiveness, but hey ... I'm going to start a thread saying: "Hey, I just got my purebred Kelpidoberdoodle from a pet shop located in the backyard of a registered breeder who doesn't reply to emails. I am feeding my dog Evil Hills Science Diet rather than BARF (he should be fine because of hybrid vigour), I keep my dog outside all day and let it have the annual Prohart heartworm injection of Death. I don't walk my dogs every day but when I do, I use a check chain, a martingale and an e-collar all at the same time. Is this ok? Also - can anyone tell my dog really is a Kelpidoberdoodle or does it have Shih Tzu in it?"

ravenau1: I can't update posts from work alas, but it took a long time to teach Elbie the biscuit on the nose trick. Mainly because his snout isn't quite shaped for treats So ages back (5 months ago actually!) we started out with strips of ham. See . Ignore his beseeching eyes ;) He was great with the ham. The dog treats kept falling off his nose but then all of a sudden this week, he kept super still and we found a little 'flat spot' on his nose where we could put a dog treat. He'll hold still for about 40 seconds. Sometimes, even after we release him he'll keep sitting there with the treat on his nose. I'm not sure how long it will take him to be able to throw it up and catch it. He can catch treats that we throw so I'm guessing he'll be able to do it soon.Hoover's still a very excited little puppy so wriggles excitedly when there's a treat on his nose. He goes cross-eyed and then wriggles madly to try to get the treat. It's very funny. He still can't catch a treat thrown in the air - it tends to bounce off his head

4Kelpies: You are right - Tia does not have a mean face at all - it's beautiful. I think you're going to have to give us a photographic intro to each of your pack - how they came to be. Hoover smiles and has a laughing face sometimes - I suppose I've only ever seen the black and tans look very intense and serious. Max#1: Bwahahaha - Max has his head tilt again. He always looks so quizzical and inquiring. Clastic: Was Pepper running in her sleep, hence the noise or was she trying to get comfy? Last night we watched "The King's Speech" and we put the two dog beds in the lounge room. Elbie got into his dog bed obediently but Hoover decided it would be more comfortable to flop out on the hard floor instead. kyliegirl: great photos! I often wonder if our monsters would allow us to 'stack' them - picture #4 looks very impressive and official. I'm impressed with Echo's stillness! Is Echo an outdoor dog? Don't let the other DOLers know Our family dog Kitt was an outdoor dog and when he was an older puppy, every time he got inside, he would get automatic-zoomise and do a hilarious lap - running from laundry, through entrance hall, through lounge, through kitchen and then back through again. So funny. He eventually calmed down and would just lie on his mat KA - great photo of Kuma! I'm sorry last night's training was so crappy - it's always frustrating when that happens. Come back to Sunday and join clastic, mars, hoover and me in our bronze class ;) We can bring water sprays and cool drinks to cool down the Large Furry One ... No Big Dog fear in our class! I have sent Evil Koala home - she's not allowed to post thread except the Elbie thread today ... The problem with toxic threads is that once one becomes the target, it's hard to exit politely!

Diva did indeed make a very good post and as is customary for her, was very articulate and polite in the way she did it. Thank you for the clarification and also for taking the time to refer me to her post. As mentioned before, I'm sure that many people (myself included) are very grateful for you for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with us. The style of delivery might be a little caustic but the content is certainly there so I am sorry that you feel aggrieved. Have a great evening!

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll keep browsing and reading threads that are of interest to me but I do appreciate your kindness and consideration in thinking of me and making the recommendation - it's very thoughtful of you.

I realise that there are risks associated mischaracterising dog breeds at the pound or in a rescue context - but this is an internet forum where people (at least in this thread) are just chatting. This thread is about as dangerous, weighty (and opinion-shaping) as the "do you walk your dogs in the rain?", the "do you let your dogs sleep in your bed", the "do you think your dog can understand your emotions?", "is it ok to call my dog froufrou?" and the "would you break up with your OH if he didn't like your dogs?" threads ... I've frequently seen these breed ID threads where people joke that the dog is clearly "part teddy bear" - is that also dangerously misleading? If someone already has the dog, or as is the case here, someone's friend or relative already has the dog and someone is curious, what's wrong with speculating about what it is? In terms of why one would ask a question when it is plainly impossible to know the answer - why not? People frequently ask if there is a God, are there aliens, is there a giant Teapot in the sky when there is no way to confirm such things at least in this life time. It's just talk and chatter ... As to the line about being expert on the ancestry of mongrel dogs, I'm not sure I was at any time claiming that anyone would ever be an expert ...?

Not sure why I am surprised, but I am surprised at how the most innocuous of threads can turn toxic so easily. Since when does a "what breed is this?" thread have to turn so narky? Gorgeous photos everyone! Ava is such a super-model - she even makes graffiti look good. Also, if I ever meet Asti, it will be hard to avoid Dognapping ... :rolleyes: Also, complete non sequitur here but I was looking at the 'waiting for a puppy' thread. I have to say that Australian Cattle Dog puppies are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cute. I'm not quite so enamoured of their appearance when they're older, more rotund and less limpid of expression but as puppies they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cute. I may have to take up fostering just so that I can cuddle cute ACD puppies. The whole contrast between puppy cuteness and older dog appearance can be quite shocking. Elbie was such a cute puppy and while he's not ugly by any means now, he's definitely not as cute as he was as a pup although he has very cute expressions, behaviours and I love him as much as I ever did. In picking Hoover, I deliberately went for a red and tan Kelpie because I like the look of the adult red and tans - their faces are very imperious and proud. The black and tans can look a bit mean for some reason but many of the red and tans are very lofty-looking. I can 'see' what Hoover will look like as an adult and I'm happy with Future Hoover's appearance. In crate shenanigans ... Elbie sleeps (by choice) in the soft crate in the kitchen. Hoover sleeps in a soft crate in our bedroom. He's been there since we got him and even though he's no longer a wee puppy, he's sort of still there out of habit and because it's pretty cute the way he trots up the stairs to the bedroom obediently every night. I prefer to zip the dogs in but Tender-hearted OH has been leaving the crate doors unzipped. The dogs don't wander and they sleep very soundly until morning but the problem is that as soon as the alarm goes off in the morning - Guns 'n Roses - Sweet Child o' Mine - the bed is surrounded by a flurry of excited Kelpieness! Lots of licking, puppy-dog eyes as they rest their heads on the bed, lots of bum waggling, excited spins and that sort of thing. This morning, we didn't get out of bed and lay there and the dogs were a bit affronted. Usually they will return to their crates and wait until their lazy humans get up - Elbie will trot down the stairs back to his crate in the kitchen. This morning, he obviously decided he couldn't be stuffed to make the Long Trek Back to the kitchen so he decided to gatecrash Hoover's crate. As usual, their expressions are a classic. Hoover: "Now I know how it feels to have my bed gatecrashed..." Elbie: "Revenge is mine." Hoover: "Elbie's still in my bed!" Elbie: "Take THAT, you red and tan brat!" Hoover: "This sucks - and my ears are still too big for my head... and while I'm at it - why did my humans tattoo my ear?"

I will agree with you most emphatically that the pass-time is clearly not fun or harmless for you. I don't think that you can speak for the rest of us, though. I haven't guessed about the dog in question's parentage, but I still don't see the problem with anyone else people speculating. We all know that even a DNA test will not give us a definitive response on parentage. If we followed your rationale consistently, then no one would should be debating/speculating on a topic unless they are an expert in the area for fear of further disseminating misinformation and misunderstanding - none of us could debate or discuss politics unless we were political scientists, none of us could debate or discuss religion unless we were theologians and none of us could talk about trees and shrubs unless we were an ... arborist ... or whatever you call those tree expert people. No one could post or comment on something unless he/she had an unassailable volume of evidentiary arguments to substantiate each claim ... The Internet would die - as would most conversation in our society ... It would be different if someone was holding himself or herself out as an expert and positing with absolute certainty about the breeds that comprised the dog in question. You're clearly very knowledgeable in this area and have a lot of information to share with the rest of us. I think most of us very much welcome the opportunity to have you tell us more about the topic so that we can learn more - but shutting down the discourse and barring it to the non-knowledgeable hardly facilitates further learning ... Sometimes people remember and learn more from reading a fun and interesting post than if there was a post called: "A Discourse on Phenotypes and Genotypes for the Uninitiated". After people's interests are piqued by a more light-hearted thread, many probably would go and read said Ponderous Discourse ... I would hope most people know it's just guessing. My crossbreed is Kelpie x Border Collie x Cheeky Monster and I have no illusions about what behaviours arise from what breed :rolleyes: Then again, Hoover the purebreed is also part cheeky monster

I think that everyone here knows this - especially on this forum of all places. Hardly worthy of éclat ... Sometimes it's just a bit of harmless fun to guess what breeds might be in the mix even if you're never going to get a definitive answer. Besides, even with a purebreed, for many of them you'll never know for sure exactly what breeds went into the original genetic cocktail, way, way back when ... Even the Poodle which has been around for many, many centuries is said to have its history and origin "shrouded in antiquity and hypothesis" ... In any case, it's not the OP who acquired the mongrel ... and it's natural human curiosity to want to know of what Bits are in a Bitsa ...

Just finished episode 2 of "Extraordinary Dogs". My only complaint about it is that the narration is way too repetitive. It's only half an hour long but the narrator repeats a few of the key things 3-4 times. This is Nepal, he's a black lab that assists a man who is mobility-impaired He's also a therapy dog. Here he is lying on the bed of a hospital patient. This gorgeous doggie is trained by the Hachiko Centre to assist people with motor disabilities or suffering from epilepsy. This extremely cute dog is Maybe - she can actually detect seizures that her owner is about to suffer. She is so cute and smart.

Yes! That was such a cute thing to watch. Clip here. Reminds me of when OH and I were sitting at the lights one day. We saw a toddler run away from his mother. OH said: "Ooooh - offleash!" The kid ran back to his mother. We both said: "Ah - good recall." Then it trotted next to its mother and we said: "Nice heelwork." We are geeks. We were joking that we'd better never have kids or we'd attempt to crate train it

Doggies looking a bit evil Hoover showing his teeth and Ginormous ears of Kelpieness :D A rare 'happy' photo of Elbie. He usually looks so mournful Yet again we were asked how we could have such incredibly active dogs ... but behold how somnolent they usually are ... This photo is hilarious - a tangle of Kelpie limbs.

ravenau1: that photo is hilarious. The cat looks so smug for having scored the higher vantage point :D Max#1: glad Max is ok! Hopefully he'll be his old self very soon. He's probably enjoying the coddling. I always worry we're going to be booted out of this sub-forum but I guess we keep our photo quota up :D Here are some more of my two monsters. It never ceases to amaze me that they have sooooooooooo many comfortable dog beds, mats and crates, yet they choose to sleep on ... Gravel ... Leaves ... I love how they sleep near each other in the yard - albeit on uncomfortable gravel. Elbie has learned how to balance a treat on his nose for very long periods of time. He hasn't learned how to catch it yet, though. You will see that Hoover still hasn't learned how to sit elegantly on laminate ... Proud-looking doggies

Hoover did some damage to Orca today. OH says that it looks like he was trying to create a blowhole in poor Orca.

Yup. The kennel's an Aldi one - very hard to fit into the car!! We have two trampoline beds, one inside the kennel and one in the open air. The doggies seem to enjoy them. cleoj: I think we post most of our doggy photos here. It's probably just the non-doggy photos that you'd be able to see on facebook. Max#1: Hmmm, if Max has been ok with the marrow bone, I'd love to let our two have them again - although they'd have to be leashed up when eating them... I guess one can't follow DOL Wisdom slavishly. I'm sure my two should be dead by now because I leave them unsupervised in the yard! *gasp* I can't believe how many people think it's bad to let your dogs hang out in the yard on their own. I am still having loose leash walking woes with Elbie ... If a car goes by, he goes into a crazy 'zone' where he doesn't see or hear anything - it's like he's deliberately ignoring me which is a total contrast to home or at dog school where he is Super Super focused and attentive. I LOVE that video of Max saying hullo. He is soooooooooooo cute and lovable. so sorry to hear about the poor fellow's kennel cough... ;) Sleeping Max looks like Sleeping Elbie ... I sympathise about the quarantine. When Elbie was very young and had ringworm, it was like he had leprosy or something. They wrote his name on the whiteboard and there was a huge red circle around it that said RINGWORM!!! and I fully expected them to issue him with a staff, bell and placard saying: 'unclean!' In terms of dog play - our two steal tennis balls and toys from one another. They body slam one another but the way they play with one another is a lot more uninhibited than when they are with other dogs. Hoover likes to get into a kelpie crouch and then lunge at Elbie. Frequently if you throw a ball, Elbie chases the ball and Hoover chases Elbie. They play tug with other and Elbie likes to get the tug or squeaky steak and basically bat poor Hoover around the head with it and shove it in his face until Hoover plays. I'm quite surprised at how much Hoover puts up with from Elbie but I suppose it goes both ways :D They like to chase each other around the yard - they're dizzlingly fast and because the yard is sloped with levels, they leap around and jump from spot to spot. When they're with other dogs, Hoover's style of play seems to just be to chase around with the group and Elbie hangs around but doesn't really chase with the other dogs. ;) I think my two are a bit weird Niques: hope James feels better soon. Elbie acted like nothing had happened after his desexing but Hoover was groggy and fearful! I hope James can dispense with the cone soon ... Poor thing, crying at the vet's. Clastic - thanks for the tip about Extraordinary Dogs. Am getting the first ep now. I've been on a documentaries kick of late and have been watching the documentary Ice Mummies by the BBC which is very fascinating. I've always found pickled people fascinating as they seem to be our best shot at seeing what people and life was like in the days before photos and video ... ETA: Crazy thread alert - a thread that innocently starts out asking how much people spend on groceries a week ... Turns into flame war between people who raise and kill their own animals for food and think the rest of us are stupid and overly commercial vs people who think that slaughtering one's own 'pets' is inhumane Oh and there's some angry vegans and vegetarians in there, too. Also, this post at RiotACT made me laugh a lot. Nice try ... ;)

Flyby post ... max has the most awesome head tilt. Let's have a caption writing competition for what Max is thinking "What is that you wish me to do, human?"

Very speaking shot of our two monsters. The expression on Elbie's face is classic and Hoover has his usual naughty expression They love each other, though. This was them choosing to share a crate last night As I mentioned, Hoover was in there first and Elbie chose to join him. It's usually the other way around. This is them being all cool and nonchalant as they hang out together in the yard

What are you doing with Ava during beginner classes? Does she get to be Demo Dog? Yes. His handler moved away from his initial location in the class at first because Louis was over-stimulated by one of the other dogs that he was standing near. Then Louis got very excited around Hoover which in turn made Hoover very excited - but then Hoover settled down and it was actually very good practice for him to compose himself despite an exciting situation cleoJ: I've been eyeing those dog bone bags at the Belconnen Markets organic butchery - I wasn't sure they were ok for doggies. If Shandy has been ok with them then I'm sure my two monsters would be good with them. Thanks for the encouragement about clickers. We like them - we each have a Karen Pryor clicker, just haven't managed to get them to work yet. We even when out and bought lanyards for them - OH's is plain and mine has smiley faces I'm going to have to ask you to demonstrate that trick - I described it to OH and I fear I may be describing it in an unexciting way ... lilli_star: I think you should join facebook Go on! You'll have a ready-made group of Dog Friends Now, some videos ... OH has been playing with the new phone. The quality isn't great but the subject matter (the doggies!) is still cute :p This is . You can see him running in his sleep - it's so cute. Sometimes he yips and barks, too. Elbie used to do it a lot but not so much now.This is . Though short in length, you will see various phases of their Doggie Play.1. chilling out together in the dog bed 2. Hoover is naughty 3. they start to play bitey face 4. the neighbour's dogs start their afternoon howling and barking - make sure you turn up the volume. The neighbours dogs make some crazily loud sounds every afternoon when their owners come home. 5. the dogs pause momentarily then they restart play. 6. Hoover gets his Devil Dog face, which cracks me up because it's such a contrast to his innocent little puppy expression. Behold the Devil Dog! Contrast it to his Innocent Puppy look Hoover sleeping in a strange position in his kennel ... Close-up ... see his snout squashed into the doorway exposing teeth and gums ... Elbie: "*woe* I can't believe Hoover's already bigger than me." Such a typical shot of our monsters. Elbie with a ball in his mouth staring at Another Ball. Meanwhile, the red and tan is unconscious nearby. Hoover failing to fully utilise the dog bed

KA - Haha – yes Rosie and Pepper are like wonder dogs… OH and I were very impressed that Sunday as well. We also went out and got clickers. My problem is that I am horribly unco so cannot handle leash, treats, dog AND clicker at the same time. It means that I click at the wrong time, forget to click at all, drop something … I made the situation worse when I decided to buy a target stick and tried to bring that along to training sessions as well OH says that his (and Elbie's) silver instructor has been converted to The Power of the Clicker over the break so said with a touch of resignation that he'll have to bring a clicker along to next week's class. Haha. Isn't the spitz thing more like: Handler: "Down!" Akita: "My ancestors were the Matagi dog, one of the oldest of Japan's native dogs. The Matagi's quarry included elk, antelope, boar, and Asian black bear. You haven't made out a convincing case for me why an intelligent and venerable breed such as myself needs to perform for you, human, like a monkey." Contrast with the thought bubble of my two monsters: "Kibble! Give me more kibble! *drool* *drool* Will do anything for kibble!" That being said, I do have a lot of sympathy … I always feel bad for the owners that have to almost beg their dogs to go to the mat and during puppy classes, there was a stubborn boxer who just would not go into a drop no matter what anyone did. Three vet nurses, one with leg stuck out and the other wielding treats was unable to make Lloyd drop … Then again, our two look biddable during class but you've seen how frenzied and hyperactive they are before and after class … Yoicks :D

I was eying wuffles and Ava enviously as they crossed the BDOC field - Ava was walking very beautifully on a loose leash and checking back with wuffles regularly whereas our two were pulling madly - I think they think that they're plough horses or something. Then again, even plough horses seem quite placid I am a bad dog owner because our two don't get a walk every day, we feed them kibble instead of barf/raw (it would make my brain explode if I had to do all the food preparation and calculations necessary to ensure a balanced diet on raw) and we leave them in collars. So far they haven't strangled themselves. OH and I are more concerned that one of them is going to get a tooth in the eye during bitey face. Last night they were very cute - they both went into a soft crate together and shared the crate. Normally Elbie will leave after a time when Hoover the Brat follows him to a dog bed or crate but last night Hoover was in the crate first and Elbie joined him. We went awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ....

I'm sorry to hear about this but am glad that she's fit enought to be able to keep on fighting. Do we have photos of the little darling? She sounds most valiant.

lilli_star: I really, REALLY feel your pain with the whole bone dilemma because I've asked around, tried different things and still haven't quite got the bone thing right. For a while we bought marrow bones which Elbie LOVED so much but everyone on DOL was telling me how bad they were because of the marrow (the dogs could get pancreatitis) and they are too hard (the dogs could break their teeth) so we stopped getting those. I think roo tails are sort of ok although some dogs have choked on them. I was frightened off lamb shanks because a girl at work's dog swallowed an overly large piece of lamb shank. It tore open his insides, the vets were able to save him through surgery but it was extremely agonising for him and then he died two weeks later from heart failure because the pain and surgery were just too much for him in the end. The poor girl was absolutely devastated and kept making me promise I'd never feed lamb shanks to my dogs Lamb flaps are too fatty and I spend ages and ages cutting off the fat … :| There isn't much meat on them but our main purpose for feeding the dogs anything bone-esque is: 1. health of teeth – apparently it's great for their teeth 2. makes them happy to gnaw on a bone Sometimes there's a little bit of meat so that's a bonus but mostly the bones are just for the teeth rather than the eating of meat. Some people say that you absolutely have to give your dogs bones to keep them healthy. This person made bones sound like a scary nightmare... Like all things Dogly, we have to find what works best for us and if you follow what's on DOL, you'd never feed your dogs ANYTHING or give them any toys to play. For instance, LOTS of people are fine with kongs but ever since I read that horrific tale of the dog that choked on a kong ball, I put our kong ball away. Then I read the tale of the dog that got its jaw stuck in a kong, so I put ours away – mainly because when Elbie was little he did get a kong stuck on his face and we were able to get it off but it made me realise that the DOLer wasn't being alarmist. So these days we scatter kibble and leave juice bottles, ice cubes, tug toys and other things out there that hopefully aren't going to imperil our doggies. We still keep our dogs in collars even when we're not home because we worry about if they get free of the yard etc but I know a DOLer who ever puts collars on her dogs because she read the DOL posts about dogs that have choked/hanged themselves on their collars .… So hard to know what is right! At present, I think we have what's right for our two. They seem healthy and safe… In the mornings, they are so happy as they barrel down the hall towards us, jostling for cuddles and pats. They really bring us so much enjoyment and happiness – putting a smile on our face every morning. They have no idea how much we worry about them KA - yay for Kuma. Glad he is liking kibble - makes life a lot easier! We are swtiching our two to adult once our current bag of royal canin is finished. OH weighed the two last night. They're both around 18kg but Hoover is a smidgin heavier than Elbie! Elbie's almost 1 year old - I'm wondering if he's now fully grown or not. If so, it's possible that Hoover is going to be quite a chunky monkey by comparison given that he's 18kg at only 9 months!

I haven't tried 4paws but the Aldi devon rolls are huge so I cut those up and freeze it and they seem fine. OH, because of his Canadian-ness had never heard of devon before but sniffed it and pronounced it to be hot dog meat Also, once he bought them Puppy Roll and I think that he was almost as excited about it as they were! He also got them some meatballs which they LOVED. I swear he buys more dog prezzies than I do!! lilli-star - have you tried lamb flaps? They're quite soft and seem safer - it just takes ages to cut off all the fat. So gross. Also, after my two eat bones/lamb flaps, they get chalky white poo, which is really weird.

Our two are cheap so we use Royal Canin kibble - they will do a lot of work for one piece of kibble. To make it more interesting, we also sometimes give them the following (not all at once : - apple - devon from Aldi meant for humans - chopped up fried chicken - low fat Aldi cheese They also like a few of the Schmackos products: Popcorn is great, OH likes the Stix and the Strips because you can divvy them up. The Stix seem a bit better because the Strips sometimes make our two farty ... They also love the marrowbones but each one is pretty huge so we can only bring about 4 each class. They also sometimes get some of the Delibones Dog Biscuits. These are biggish and can be broken up into little pieces. Delibones are supposed to be better quality i.e. no fillers and all the ingredients are supposed to be human-grade ingredients. We also buy the dog chocolate from Woolworths which they love and various other dog biscuits. The bulk is Royal Canin though On Dog School days, they get less breakfast and dinner given how many goodies they get during class! ETA: Lamb Lickables are also a bit favourite and can be broken into tiny pieces. Unfortunately we can no longer give them to Hoover because he is a greedy guts, gulps them without swallowing and then we have to hear gagging noises afterwards