koalathebear

mushka & runner: thanks for the tips! Will try them out, although Canberra is getting very cool all of a sudden, maybe the ants will just vamoosh!

aiden2: that is hilarious Have you tried it?

Sorry I should have been clearer - he wasn't distressed. He was very confused by the anaesthetic and tried to go home with someone else I felt so sorry for my drugged puppy wagsalot: my two are sooks, too. Maybe it's a Kelpie thing despite their tough farm dogginess

I've never enjoyed leaving the dogs at the vet's but I guess we're lucky that they're in the same suburb, they phone us with updates as needed and they're really kind to our two. Elbie was left there for a day when having his paw stitched up and getting desexed - poor thing was very bewildered. Hoover was left there for a day to be desexed and was very confused when we picked him up. Another time, Hoover needed his eyes checked and we didn't have an appointment and couldn't wait around because we had things to attend to so they let us drop him off at 9am and pick him up a few hours later i.e. the vet saw him when she had time. I don't like leaving them there but I figure that they need the medical treatment and that need outweighs a short period of discomfort.

Just outside the house we've been getting a steady stream of ant visitors. Can anyone recommend any dog-friendly ant killer? Thanks very much in advance!

This photo is soooooooooooooooooo cute!!!!

Your dog is absolutely gorgeous. Love his colours and his elegance. Our two point, too. I so wish I could teach them to point on command!

It must be wuv, twu wuv!

So sorry! I hope you get some rest soon. betsy: Elbie is a hoot with his self-sin-binning. Elbie's always been almost perfectly behaved at home - it's the Outside the Home stuff and he's definitely doing better with the loose leash walking. We took the two monsters to the local fruit markets today - almost everything is closed except Pet Barn so there were a few people around - not too many but enough that we could test them out in a new environment and with people around. Elbie keened, lunged and wanted to get to people but eventually settled down. There were two families playing in the stage area with two sets of toddlers each so we had the dogs sitting a few metres away - watching the kids running around and dancing. Elbie performed tricks and then Hoover was sent in to be patted and stroked. He was fine even when a toddler pulled his ear. One of the fathers was keen to have his kids overcome their dog fears so the tricks from Elbie and the Hoover patting were great. Then we stood outside Pet Barn as people went in and out and Elbie was able to stay calm although people were walking very close to him. We also walked both dogs through Pet Barn and they did well so Elbie's excitement levels are still very high but he's making progress. Max#1: Those photos of Max are so darling - there's nothing more cute than a sleeping doggy. Hoover sleeps solidly and will basically conk out and just wake up if he hears his name/Elbie's name/the sound of food. Elbie sleeps in a state of constant alertness so any movement/sound will make him spring to attention. Speaking of which, he is currently lying on OH's lap now while OH surfs the net. We find exercise does not calm our two down at all but fortunately they're not hyperactive in the house - just in the yard. It's funny watching them chase each other around the yard like crazy, then flop down for a rest. Then chase again, then flop. I used to worry that they'd just chase and chase but they have short bursts of intense energy and then chill out.

I am am not a rescuer so of course am not as fully cognisant to the details as you. Thanks for the information, as always your posts are very thought-provoking if one can get past the somewhat caustic delivery. Thank you for not calling me stupid but I also do not think that I have a warped perception, quite the contrary, I am always open to receiving new information and views. Judging by your actions and experience, I am sure that off-line you is a very admirable, kind compassionate person and it's just unfortunate that I've only ever been able to perceive you via your forum posts. I'll bow out of this conversation as you always seem to take quite an antagonistic stance towards my posts when my original intention is not to provoke. I can only assume that I must have wronged you horribly in a past life, in which case I sincerely apologise to Past Life Greytmate for the actions of Past Life Koala - I'm sure she didn't mean to do wrong Have a great day!

Oh he's got such a sweet and serious little face. Have fun with him!

I do see what you're saying but I still think that rescue dogs and dogs sourced from a responsible breeder should, by necessity, be subject to different tests otherwise rescue can't really continue to exist. Rescues have a responsibility to temperament test dogs and not rehome dogs who are aggressive or have other behavioural issues. The thing is, regardless of the most thorough of testing - there can be months or years to a rescue dog's life where we don't know what happened. People who get a rescue dog know that they are getting a dog that potentially has emotional baggage/issues/unknown elements to its past. Not necessarily bad things, but there are some potential mysteries there and the dog probably didn't get the best possible start in life. People who acquire a rescue dog are presumably making a conscious decision that they want to give a dog (that's probably had a rough start) a second chance at life. By contrast, a dog from a responsible breeder should have received the best possible start to life - this rigour and care going in even years before the dog is born. The dog should have been sourced from the best and healthiest lines, the dog is socialised and raised with care and responsibility before going to a home that is chosen for it. With these expectations and parameters, you would expect the best possible quality dog from a responsible breeder, along with post-sale support and a money-back guarantee for certain health conditions. A responsible breeder does, by necessity, cull defective animals from its lines. In the case of rescue, the horse has frequently already bolted. The dogs are frequently already born, have personalities and have the ability to form emotional attachments with people. It is just not possible to have the same degree of knowledge about most rescue dogs because its past and parentage and frequently a mystery. In any case, the two are different 'sectors', to be honest. Distilled down to its most basic premise, rescue is supposed to be taking dogs from a bad situation (frequently dogs who are at the point of being euthanised) and giving them another shot at life. Ideally, it is not supposed to be a business and the fee for the dogs is, in principle, simply meant to cover medical costs etc. By contrast, breeders may not be a business but it differs from rescue in the sense that its underlying premise is not a purely altruistic/philanthropic venture. Yes, breeders may be breeding at a loss and have motives of bettering the breed - but I don't think these are the elements that underpin philanthropy. So in an ideal world, a rescue dog would be as perfect as you could get it before it is rehomed but I think that in reality, those that take on a rescue dog are taking it on in the knowledge that there may be a few surprises in the mix, much the same way that those of us with crossbreeds know that we're going to be thrown something unexpected now and then. What I'm trying to say is that while it makes sense to me why people would choose to terminate the life of a deformed puppy for certain reasons, I can also see reasons why someone else who has already bonded with a dog may believe that it has the right to live and the chance at happiness.. It's not a particularly clear-cut a decision to me and so it feels wrong to judge. I've seen people on this forum judging others for euthanising their dogs too early/too late - as there's probably no right and wrong answer there, this is a similar situation. This may be true, but how do any of us ever know if a dog is truly happy? We can only go on body language, cues and behaviour that are consistent with happiness. I have known people who are very experienced dog-owners who have dogs that have 3 legs/2 legs etc and have appeared 'happy' and would have been horrified at the notion that they should put their beloved dog to sleep. Everyone has a different concept of when a life is worth living and as yet, we don't have a definitive answer on which of us is right and which is wrong. If we did, euthanasia laws would be consistent. I agree with what greytmate has said here... As far as I can see, people rescue for a variety of reasons. There are some who stick a particular breed, there are some who like to rescue the golden oldies who they feel deserve to live out their declining years in a loving home rather than at a pound. There are even those who take on the older dogs with cancer just so that they can make sure that they can have some love and care before they die. In all these cases, critics could query the motives and rationality of the rescuers - choosing to select one group over another, in the case of the elderly and sick - 'wasting' money and time when other more healthy dogs could be rescued with the same time and money ... The thing is, rescue is motivated by emotional reasons so people's reasons for rescuing will vary. Thankfully we still live in a pluralistic society so that even if there are some who judge others for the reasons why they rescue, it's just that - a subjective judgement that is not necessarily right or valid. To those who have been disenchanted by rescuers who do it for self-gratification and put their own needs before the animals, this is of course very sad and disappointing for you and I feel very sad that you've had to see such an unpleasant side of people. Nonetheless, people in rescue are humans and subject to the same weaknesses and strengths as you would find in any other organisation. Regarding "acting in self-interest" observation, I've seen the same 'self-fulfilment' drive in multinational NGOs, international corporate lawyers, investment bankers .. the list goes on. The bad apples don't necessarily have to taint the whole cart. Whether you're doing good because you're think you're going to heaven, being reincarnated into a good life, getting the Order of Australia or being praised on facebook - the recipient of a good deed is probably happy to have something good happen to him/her/it. Also, I've seen criticism of rescues that take only the purebreds and the 'cute' dogs that aren't even at risk, leaving the big, more difficult to home brindle boofers to others - then again, one can also argue that this frees up valuable pound space, gives more time for those on the PTS list and so actually does result in some good in the end. As someone on the edge of rescue, I've met quite a few down to earth, lovely rescuers who rescue one dog at a time, do it with no fanfare and are just wanting to do their small part to make things better and do no harm. I think it's simplistic to say that a few less than optimal situations will lead to the public generalising and tarring all of rescue with the same brush - it assumes that most people are stupid and despite what people might conclude from reading dog fora, most people aren't stupid. I very much hope that Popeye finds a wonderful loving home with people who will love and care for him.

Someone in the US made an , of all things. Elbie, once he got over his dislike of the machine noise would probably love it

Me, too. If there are people who want to look after this dog because they have bonded with it, love it and are prepared to look after it with time and effort, then they should be applauded and not told that the thing they love should be put down. Dogs are not fungible commodities - if someone loves THIS dog and wants to adopt it notwithstanding its disability, I don't think that it's as easy as saying: "Oh there's a perfectly healthy dog over there in the pound that you should spend time on instead of wasting good time and money on a defective dog." How far do you take this rationale anyway? "Why adopt this ugly dog when there are heaps of good-looking dogs at the pound?" While I appreciate that there's a huge divide between humans and dogs, it's a bit like telling the parent of a handicapped child (whether biological or adopted) that they shouldn't waste their time on a defective child that has impaired quality of life when there are healthy kids out there that need adoption. It is THIS child/dog that they love and have bonded with and want to 'waste' their time, love and money on. As far as I can see, no one is asking/telling anyone who doesn't want to adopt an impaired dog to adopt one and if there are people who want to do that then all well and good. No one is telling you even to donate money, time, thoughts or prayers towards such dogs. Statistically, there are still a hell of a lot more people out there who want to rescue/adopt a healthy dog over a disabled one. I find it strange that on the same forum that has people up in arms about pet evacuation procedures and the "my dog is part of my family, I'd rather die than leave it behind", there are also people saying that a dog (who appears to be quite beloved) should be put down because it's disabled and making the call that it has no quality of life when it looks like it actually still does have some quality of life. Yeah it's paralysed and incontinent - that doesn't mean it has no right to live Defective dogs shouldn't be bred from but if one's already there, still has some quality of life and there is someone there to love it and care for it - I see no reason that it should be killed, especially if those advocating the dog's death are puffed up with some sort of misguided and sanctimonious notion of "it's for its own good" and going so far as to judge others for caring for such dogs :D Flame away - the fur is extra fire-resistant today

OH just picks up our two and steps on the scales and then deducts his weight :D Both are just over 17kg right now. If you want to know what's extravagant, we bought an upright freezer from Aldi and it was mainly with the dogs in mind because their stuff takes up so much of our current freezer space. So now they have a few things in the kitchen freezer and they get a whole drawer in the new upright freezer - lamb flaps, devon and meatballs kyliegirl: I suspect that there are dogs that can be clicker-trained to do everything, alas, my two are not that way inclined. In any case, Echo is still very, very young and there's a lot of maturing to go through. A lot of the issues that Elbie had that used to drive me bonkers as a young pup were things that he actually just grew out of naturally even though at the time it felt like a Big Deal. Hoover endures. Elbie hates it. At his worst, I have no doubt he'd try to bite us but the clippers make him incredibly unhappy. We're taking him right back right now to the tap the clippers on his nail and treat - we're not trying to clip lately. Just trying to desensitise him to the clippers. If only their nails weren't so darned hard, it wouldn't be such an ordeal trying to clip them :p Congratulations on Echo's toilet-training . We were sooooooooooooooooo happy when Elbie learned to sleep through the night. Probably even happier when Hoover learned I love the blankets on Echo's quilt - we just have ratty old towels that have now become Dog Towels wizzle: can't wait to see the photos! Glad she enjoyed the beach. I'm looking forward to seeing our two having fun at a beach one day. The beach that the wuffles gang went to recently looked fantastic and if we can get dog-friendly accommodation, it will be great! Poor long-suffering OH though ... :D This morning our two monsters had a play date with Ava and Satch. No photos because our two were hyperactive blurs but I did get this photo on my phone of Ava and Satch chilling out under a tree. They're such a lovely pair - very well-mannered. The embarrassing encounter in the carpark went like this: wuffle stands nonchalantly in the car park, two dogs sitting at her feet quietly OH and I are there with two crazy Kelpies straining and yipping to get at their mates Fortunately after their Big Run and play, they settled down and walked quietly back to the car when playtime was over but we still have a long long way to go before our two are Calm. We're going to take them to the markets tomorrow - most of the shops will be closed but there will be enough people around to cause Excitement so that we can train the doggies to be quiet. In other news, apparently Hoover is finally tweaking onto the fact that the bathroom is the Sin Bin instead of a place of fun. OH says that Hoover gave him a very subdued and sad-looking gaze as he was made to trot to the bathroom. Barking at passers-by from the front door is a Sin Binnable offence - Hoover is usually the culprit and then Elbie joins in. What was hilarious is that apparently today, Hoover barked and Elbie joined in once but stopped. OH got up to put Hoover in the sin bin but by the time he got up the stairs, Elbie had sin-binned himself and was sitting on the bathroom rug facing the door in a very penitent: "I have been bad" manner. He had to be booted out so that the correct culprit could be Shunned.

On the bandanna front, the dogs as part of their post-K9Steve consult are currently on correction collars. These will be phased out in time but for the time being, we don't want people hassling us and since we haven't got around to buying proper doggie bandannas for them, I cut up an old orange shirt of mine and made Hoover's bandanna for him. See my crappy needlework Hoover, unimpressed at my crappy needlework Elbie's bandanna is made from an old Harry Potter shirt I love Elbie's tongue in this photo - cracks me up Hope all are having a fabulous long weekend! ETA: This is a . He has such funny and cute little ways and facial expressions - you just want to cuddle and squeeze him.

Fair enough. The facebook page is keeping me very amused and what's great about it is that it's facebook so OH has no idea I'm still reading about things Dogly :D Hoover always seems to enjoy his time-outs - we'll come back and find him out like a light. Very different from Elbie who will sit there looking agonised, fully cognisant of the enormity of his crimes. Max#1: Max looks pooped from all that reading I went to Sophie's Choice but couldn't find the Max lookalike!? Do you suppose he's been adopted already? lilli_star: those photos of Roo are absolutely darling. She looks so cuddly I want to squish her Hoover quite happily sleeps on the floor all the time even though he's right near his equally expensive Dogbed ravenau1: I love those photos of Astrid - particularly number two. I have one of those Black Dog treat bags, too and Hoover sometimes nudges it and I've had it close over my hand a few times. Ouch! OH doesn't like them so he uses them under sufferance, the BlackDog bags are too small for him so he uses a bum bag. Minxy: love the photos of Kyojin. The bandanna is super cute - i want to buy proper ones for my two but right now they're using makeshift ones. kyliegirl: lovely photos of Echo - OH particularly liked the ones of Echo and his dog bed. It's crazy how quickly they grow up! We're about to buy a Snooza pet futon for Elbie because Hoover already has one and they are the perfect size for the TopBuy XXXL soft crates. PetBarn is selling them for $99 but we've found them from VetnPetDirect for only $58. We've also been working on Elbie's excitement issues - Elbie has improved heaps since his consult with K9Steve although today at the oval, a group of women walked by quite close and Elbie got very excited and started lunging. I don't think that he'd ever seen people dressed like that before with the saris and flowing fabrics. He calmed down - although they did a few laps of the oval which was good for his distraction work :D So, some photos. In the morning, we let the dogs out of their crates and wee them but then sometimes we go back and lie down in bed agai for a bit. The dogs play but then they settle and both clamber into Hoover's crate to wait until their lazy humans get up. Today at PetBarn when we were looking at over-priced dogbeds which we did not buy, OH was amused by the fact that the resident PetBarn cat was trying out the various dog beds Elbie being a lap dog. OH loves cuddling the dogs. Today we went out to the Cooma Show to see the Yard Dog Trials. To our profound disappointment, because there was apparently heavy rain yesterday, the trials were cancelled so we had driven out there for nothing I was very disappointed. To OH who had been reluctant to start with, it was even worse. Then he stared in horror at the flowers and cakes that had "first prize" etc on them and remarked he didn't realise that we were at a country fair where people had their pumpkins graded. Of course I started laughing when a bit later I saw that there was actually a giant pumpkin And a giant twisty melon And a cauliflower made to look like a sheepie Still, on the way back we stopped at the Bredbo Pancake and Crepe restaurant and had a delicious time

Our two just killed a cheapie plastic bone from Woollies. I still don't know which one ate part of it and which one ate the squeaker OH suspects Hoover. Their new Tuffie toys arrived today - we've been very happy with them. The dogs tug with them a LOT and the starfish only recently got a hole in it.

Sorry I'm sad that OH won't let me foster all of these cute Kelpie puppies. Who could abandon 5 week old puppies like that? Yes Time-out used to be leashing them in the kitchen for 30 seconds but the kitchen is a place they like to play so it's not really a punishment. Then it was leashing them outside, but we do that for when they eat lamb flaps so it wasn't 'negative' and 'deprived' enough. In the end we picked the bathroom because we don't care if they have negative associations with the bathroom and they need to be somewhere that they don't have access to the rest of the pack. Of course if Hoover's going to raid the bin for toilet rolls to chew, it's not much of a punishment Yes ... you guys are hilarious. In particular wizzle's slip-up as co-admin and your professed relief at not being dumped from the group lilli_star: re the antlers, it varies. Sometimes they get bored of their antlers quite quickly, other times they gnaw on them forever. Usually what happens is: 1. dogs gnaw 2. dogs swap places and suddenly decide that the other dog's antler is more interesting 3. dogs gnaw

cleoJ - fear not! Not all puppies are little bastards. As mentioned, I'm actually glad we got Elbie first and then Hoover. The other way around would have been a shock to the system Hoover was much, much easier during his puppyhood. Admittedly we got him at around the 3 month mark whereas Elbie was probably just on 8 weeks so a lot more hard work. Hoover's breeder was already able to describe Hoover's personality to us in detail so that we knew he would fit in. Depends whether you want an 8 weeker or a slightly older pup As for photos, we have a pile of leaves that have been swept up into the corner of the courtyard. We keep meaning to get rid of the leaves but in the meanwhile, the dogs have taken control. :D Also, we are using the bathroom as the 'sin bin' for the dogs as their punishment/denial of pack time room. Elbie knows he's being punished and we can see that he's standing at the door waiting to be liberated. Today Hoover was sinbinned for barking at passers-by from the front door. When OH went to let him out, Hoover was chilling out on the bathroom mat gnawing on a toilet roll core that he had stolen from the garbage bin - apparently completely unaware that he was being punished lilli_star: glad you got Roo back all right ... You must have been so frightened! Once Hoover dashed out the front door and I almost freaked out but fortunately he paused and then came back when called. Cars come around the bend at a huge speed and they would NOT see a red and tan Kelpie puppy

Argh! They are sooooooooooooooooo cute

Well I keep telling you to come and visit us in Canberra - I have two extremely distracting monsters Speaking of which, tonight I was training with Hoover and OH had finished with Elbie so decided to play tug with Elbie. Listening to Elbie growling in a frenzied fashion as OH is playing with tug with him was a massive test of Hoover's willpower He broke his sit-stay twice but eventually I managed to get him to ignore Elbie's tug play although I could see his ears twitching around with fierce attentiveness. Poor Hoover - he just wanted to go and join the fun ETA: Those interested, please PM me for the facebook link :D If you have a mysterious name like lilli_star, please let me know what it is

My OH is Canadian and he didn't know what devon was either. He sniffed it and said it smelled like hot dog meat.

I think it is fine to post it here - no one would be bored

wuffles - if the critical mass is insufficient, we can reschedule to when there are more doggies.