koalathebear

Thanks kyojin - they amuse us very much Indubitably OH spoils them more than I do. I don't actually think it's cold yet ;) Sounds like Ava's on the mend! Hope she's all better soon. We slept in this morning - when we do that, we let the dogs out of their crate and they tend to both crash in Hoover's crate. It's funny looking over and seeing two dogs staring at us reproachfully. Caption: Waiting for Our Lazy Humans To Get Out of Bed Caption: PLEASE Lazy Human - Get Out of Bed

Thanks so much for that. That is horrific what they've done to the Kelpie Parsons definitely seemed disapproving of what they had done to Kelpies in the US in terms of cattle work but I thought that they were only aggro towards cattle not people. What a horrible, horrible distortion of what makes a Kelpie a Kelpie

It's a shame people feel outraged and insulted. I think the thread has actually been quite respectful and it's been refreshing to see a discussion about possible future breeds that doesn't devolve into name-calling. The forum rules do not prohibit speaking about non-ANKC-registered dogs - it says that the purpose of the forum is to discuss ANKC-registered dogs and that if you're speaking about other non-ANKC dogs, you shouldn't be promoting or voicing outrage about DDs. I don't think any of those rules have been violated in this thread. It would be a shame if the rules were changed to prohibit all discussion of non-ANKC-registered dogs because that would preclude discussion of working registry dogs, dogs not yet recognised in Australia but may be recognised elsewhere. Dog breeds have been developing over centuries, it would be wrong and also sad to think that the development of any new breed stops here in the 21st century. I think we all agree that none of the newer faddish DDs have or are likely to make it as a new breed but I don't see anything wrong with critical speculation about what new breeds may come. From what everyone has said, it seems clear to me that if there is ever any new breed, it has to be derived for a particular purpose other than having a funky name but I'm really interested to know what new breeds will be developed this century and the rationale for their existence.

Thanks! The list looks really helpful. I know that there are a lot of working line breeders in Australia who would willingly fly a pup to Canada but it is SUCH a long flight that I really think that it would be too long for a wee pup ...

Thanks Kelpiechick. I think they're still rare as pets. Someone was mentioning at one point that there were Kelpies in agility in the UK but they weren't a common pet I think, same goes for Canada. My OH from Toronto had certainly never seen/heard of a Kelpie before and this friend is in Nova Scotia and hadn't heard of Kelpies before although there has been a rather intense bombardment since my two monsters came along. Will definitely look into your recommendations! Thanks again. As for what she intends to do with the dog - it will probably be a very active pet. She's horsey.

wuffles: hope Ava's feeling better and that you've been able to get some sleep. kyliegirl: So impressed with Echo on the treadmill! He's so well-trained. Very cute. We considered a treadmill for Elbie before because someone suggested it might tire him out and make him calmer but it has been pointed out by more than one behaviourist that all we'd end up with is a very high drive dog who is also very fit so has higher exercise demands of us We baulked at that and decided against it - but gosh Echo looks so professional Max#1: how can you be squeamish? I am pretty certain you described Max's wormy poo as looking like it had rice in it when you first got him clastic: those photos are gorgeous. I particularly love the two headed border collie. Sooooooooooooo cute. They both look so peaceful despite the uncomfortable position. The camping photos are gorgeous - the one of Pepper looking over her shoulder is so sweet. Were there many bugs/mosquitoes? I am allergic to nature, particularly bug bites and that like so suffer terribly when bitten Some photos of my two monsters. Hoover being a bungee-jumping lap dog Hoover has a weird habit of not sleeping in his dog bed properly Puppy-dog eyes OH got all tender-hearted again tonight and tucked blankets around the dogs. The dogs responded very characteristically. Snoozy Hoover just chilled out in his blanket Elbie got up and investigated everything as usual

Resurrecting this thread for a moment because a friend has been converted to the dark side and would love to get a Kelpie. Problem - she's in Canada. I'll phone WKC next week but does anyone know of any reputable Kelpie breeders in Canada? She hasn't owned Kelpies before (they're rare in Canada) but she's a very experienced dog owner. Thanks very much in advance.

True. From memory, today's Kelpies are descended from the UK Collie and the earlier Kelpies were basically border collie crosses. Today's 'purebred Kelpie' seems to have only really been around since the late 1800s and there's a lot of speculation that there's a lot of border collie and probably even a wee bit of dingo in the 'purebred' mix ... I agree with you - although all herding dogs, Aussies, Kelpies, Coolies, Cattle Dogs all have different albeit similar purposes and if you were just going to stick to the purebred, perhaps we would never have gone past the original collies ... Conceptually I can't see a problem with aspiring to make 'new' purebred dogs so long as it is done cautiously and by people who know what they're doing. No I'm not advocating crossbreeds/DDs or denigrating purebreeds - just saying that new breeds all start somewhere and as shortstep has pointed out, we'd never have some of the herding breeds we do if people hadn't experimented. Even a dog like the Doberman has only been around since the late 1800s. If you can trust wikipedia: Side question - presumably some of the 'miniature' versions of dogs were originally crossbreeds as well? eg Miniature Schnauzer originated in Germany only in the mid-to-late 19th century and was developed from crosses between the Standard Schnauzer and a smaller breed (Poodle and Affenpinscher?) The Miniature Pinscher was a mix of Italian Greyhounds and Dachsunds. No idea about the miniature poodle i.e. how you turn a standard poodle into a miniature one. I think as with many things, it's reality and practicality that causes the problem. Indiscriminate cross-breeding leads to problems but presumably methodical, rational and purposeful crossing can be a good thing. On a smaller scale, something that springs to mind is the recent dalmation issue where Fiona the dalmation is descended from a dalmatian and a pointer which apparently allows her to skip a mutant gene that effects dalmations ...

Thanks for that! I think I've found your Kelpie gang I've finished the Tony Parsons book and as you say, he did seem to feel a little disenchanted with the WKC after a while. I was also quite interested at the breeders he was recommending. Because Hoover has so much Riana in him, I looked up the Kelpie stud. There was this bit: I know it improved the breed, but poor culled dogs.

Nah, I was just looking up names of 'Kelpies I know' Presumably somewhere up the chain they must be related though

Haven't found the answer on Google I take it Kaos is a nom de plume? There were a few Kaos there but I don't think any were yours

This book with its talk of bloodlines intrigued me. I have Hoover's papers that set out his pedigree back to his grandparents but for fun decided to look on the WKC bloodlines website to try to trace it back further to see what I can find. So far I've hit a wall at his great great great grandparents but I see that he has Scanlons, Riana, Karana in him. I like that his great-grandfather's name was Kinghayes Boof. Out of interest, what does S/BRED mean? OH keeps joking that I'm going to find out that Hoover has a distant descendent that was a cat or something.

Still OT but that's so great about your daughter. I found it interesting in that episode of Extraordinary Dogs that they said that a lot of kids with autism do NOT like physical contact and that having a dog somehow broke through that aversion and that they would hold, pat and cuddle the dog and the dog could help to calm them when they were stressing out. My only concern was that dogs have such a short lifespan. The passing of a beloved dog is traumatic already - it is probably even worse for a child with autism :'(

I'm intrigued by this whinging around mealtimes thing - do people mean that their dogs start barking/whimpering? Our two kind of just stand there and look a bit soulful - maybe it's just that they really can't tell the time

I guess what they have is far more accurate than a clock

Thanks. The quotes are from the same article so there shouldn't be any internal conflict in reasoning. I was referring to differing views generally about whether dogs can tell time - but didn't post links to the other articles. As for Pavlovian classical conditioning, I agree that it does look as though dogs associate rather than remember, but if 'telling time' isn't so much about remembering things as being triggered by cues - I guess dogs manage to keep time in their own way.

Interesting. Our two don't seem to mind when they're fed. They just know it's after us, so if we've had to feed them early or late, that's that - admittedly, they've never whinged for food so I wouldn't actually know if they were demanding dinner or not I suppose what I'm reading is consistent with the notion that dogs have poor "real memory" but long associative memory. Nothing to do with the ability to tell the time from a clock - although Elbie does run into the kitchen to monitor the stove when the timer goes off No vehicle. There have been times when I've come home by bus a few hours late and walked down our road on foot. OH says Elbie's been monitoring the doorway for several hours. Perhaps not sitting there, but clearly checking back regularly. They also do have very good hearing and when we pull up into the drive they're always waiting patiently

I've read conflicting things about whether dogs have a concept of time. This article is interesting. Some snippets: Then the article says: All very interesting - although humans also lose track of days/time when isolated from external stimulae and events and we do also rely on other cues. I often feel like my dogs can 'tell the time'. Just a couple of things. OH says that Elbie goes looking for me if I'm late from work. He will wait by the door and seems to know that the 'time' for home time has been and gone. I used to think that Hoover knows it is time for bed because I went up the stairs to the bedroom, but there have been a few times when I haven't gone upstairs yet because I've been delayed by this and that he has trotted up the stairs of his own volition and put himself to bed in his crate instead of just staying curled up and asleep on one of dog beds in the study For other things, it's not a 'time' thing but behaviour, for instance, Elbie knows that we feed him after we have eaten so when he sees us finishing up our meal, he will trot up in the expectation that he will be fed soon. Does anyone have any examples of their dogs being able to 'tell the time'?

Absolutely. Speaking of Service Dogs - has anyone been watching Extraordinary Dogs? In Canada, the MIRA Foundation have been cross-breeding a new type of service dog called the Labernese (Labrador x Bernese Mountain Dog) to work with autistic children. I find that name quite weird, although apparently the results of the canine therapy have been very good with children with autism. As for the Labradoodle, I still think that out of the nouveau portmantaeu crossbreeds, it's probably the most likely to become a recognised breed one day. Partly because its origins were notionally service-driven and even though the original 'creator' has regretted his original position, the dog is very popular - one day in the future we'll probably read on Wikipedia about the original furore and outrage surrounding the dubious origins of the breed etc. I was browsing that Kate's Family Pets site and saw that she was asking for owners of 'old' labradoodles sourced from her to post because she interested to see how they went. Some owners posted with details of HD and other health defects. The average lifespan seemed to be around 11-13 years - but it wasn't huge number of people posting.

Poor thing. Yoicks, re the fluffy pants. I'd be trimming if it was me but I've dealt with far too much dog poo in my life. Hoover seems to have rolled in his poo the first two nights we had him - I think it was *panic poo!* followed by *squirm squirm squirm*

Oh poor Ava. I am clueless about these things - what causes the gastro? Something she ate or is it viral?

I have no new photos of the doggies otherwise I would be posting! OH took some photos of the giant rocks that have been delivered to our front yard but no dog photos. I am waiting for the neighbours to complain about the rocks

Thanks for the recommendation. What if you had a curious Kelpie puppy that likes to lick everything?

I feel so sorry for the horse ... The kind and humanitarian thing would be to just let it stay dead.

Elbie's very good at putting the ball/toys into a box or basket so I'm sure he would love it. If we get it, I'll make sure I let you know how it goes although I do have a vision of accidentally braining a poor neighbour.