koalathebear

Not chiming in about the main topic but I just wanted to say that that's such a shame about the clubs. I posted photos from this year's Canberra show here. The Lab/GR cross you see is from our dog club - by all accounts he's doing well and by now should have his first or second title. He's a valued member of the team :)

Awwww, good to hear :) Kelpies are awesome :laugh: I don't think I'd ever go for another breed - they're so smart, lovable and eager to please.

Hullo - I'm very terrible at breed identification. She definitely looks like she has terrier in her but her ball ways reminded me a lot of a border collie :) We have way way way too many photos of our two dogs - it's almost embarrassing. We show up at Casey Dog Park every week at around 10 am in case she ever wants to play with my two again - Elbie is the ball mad of our two. Hoover, the other dog just likes chasing. We frequently take photos and videos of the doggies :)

Odd but tonight he decided he wanted to sleep in the Kelpie-sized dog bed :)

Yes, the day bed was supposed to be for the Humans until the dogs took over Kuma's been up on the day bed a few times but he seems to find the floor most comfy - I guess it's cooler :) Hoover loves doing biteyface from the day bed - I think he think that it gives him the height advantage :laugh:

Minxy - they get along well :) Here's some video from today:

Elbie and Hoover have Cousin Kuma the Akita staying with them this week

My two still go to Casey Dog Park every Sunday at around 10 am. We have seen different DOLers there at different times and Elbie and Hoover enjoy playing with all the dogs. They've played with DOLer dogs, Shelby the kelpie/GSD/staffy cross, they've played with a pit bull, a GSP, GSDs, numerous fluffies, labs, jugs, pugs and various other doggies. This morning they had a great time with Pepper the ACD: Unless it's raining, we'll be there! :)

I've only met them at agility so perhaps that's why they always seemed so lively :laugh:

HW's suggestion of the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever is also excellent. They are beautiful-looking and seem to have crazy high energy :)

I think an Australian Shepherd might be a good choice, too because they are smart and tend to be a little more boisterous and exuberant than a border collie. As this is a purebreed forum, you probably should have expected the disapproval about cross-breeding. If you are really set on getting the border collie x lab combination - it is a fairly common mix and as people have pointed out, they end up in rescue all the time - keep an eye on the rescue threads or get in touch with one of the better rescue groups. The mutts of the world also need a home, too. I have a mutt (Kelpie/Border Collie cross) and a purebred Kelpie and love them both - I had a lab/bc growing up as a kid. ETA: Even with purebreds, that can be sharp variances in temperament/health/quality - dogs aren't machines so there are never any guarantees and there's sometimes a slightly misleading suggestion that purebred = certainty. Even in every litter, there are dogs with differing personalities and physicality. There are plenty of purebreeds around plagued with health or temperament issues. By getting a purebred from a good breeder though, what you do is increase your chances of having the dog that suits what you want/need from a dog and also a source of support when things go wrong. For instance, the breeder of my Kelpie was able to give us a dog that had the temperament to suit our family unit and was also prepared to take him back if things didn't work out :)

You are right. I really struggle to correctly identify a "pit bull" ...for instance my 'favourites' are the tan coloured ones with the amber eyes and pink noses (like Dahlia Linke) and they look vastly different from the pit bull in the "Little Rascals" ... Even in my 'favourite' category, I still get it wrong :p This handsome dude was playing with my two Kelpies at the dog park and his owner said that he was a pit bull: We did the photos/video for rehoming these three lovely ladies last year and when I first met then, I assumed that all three were pit bulls/pit bull mixes: Delta: One is actually classified as a staffy cross not a pit bull.

You are right. Process is as follows: Following the Domestic Animals Amendment ( Restricted Breeds ) Act 2011, s 3 of the Domestic Animals Act 1994 (with effect from 30 September 2011) now provides: .The scope of VCAT's decision-making powers only relates to determining if the physicality of the dog complies with the standard/the officer was correct in assessing that the physicality of the dog complies with the standard. VCAT can't exceed its decision-making scope. ETA: I should add that I am very much anti-BSL. I think there are two separate but related issues. 1. BSL is wrong and it is wrong to condemn dogs to death on the basis of breed alone rather than actual temperament. 2. This current legislation is wrong and flawed in the sense that it will also end up killing dogs who are actually not the original objects of the legislation given that it is using a physical checklist to determine what is a 'restricted breed'.

I know that's why I am curious. e.g if you crossed a pug with a great dane (wild random hypothetical example) could you conceivably end up with a dog that might satisfy the standard set out at the bottom of this page and therefore be deemed a restricted breed under the Act.

Sadly, the reason DNA doesn't apply here because is because section 3 of the Domestic Animals Act 1994 No. 81 of 1994 provides that: That standard only has physical characteristics and DNA does not come into it. Only out is papered Amstaff, from what I can see. So VCAT can only go on the physical standard, which is unfortunate.

I'm a bit curious because the appearance of Bear and Kooda puzzled me. They don't look at all pitty to me and given that they have been found to 'comply with the standard', it has made me even more puzzled. I know that crossbreeding is fraught with randomness etc but my question is - is it possible for two dogs that have absolutely no pitbull in them to be crossed and end up with dogs that look like Bear and Kooda? i.e. could crosses derived from Rhodesian Ridgeback/Dane/[other] ever end up with dogs looking like Beer and Kooda if they were combined with a SBT/Boxer/bull mastiff/dogue?

Poor Ace indeed. I was a bit horrified by that one because I read that decision and also the Tonka decision. Thankfully Tonka was found not to meet the standard and so saved, but to my untrained eye he looks just as if not more pitty than Ace. I think Tonka's owner Smith was fortunate to have a persuasive witness in the form of someone named Lynne Harwood from South Australia who had 40 years experience as a dog breeder, dog show judge and trainer of dog show judges. These were Harwood's qualifications. It ultimately saved Tonka's life: I think that Harwood's evidence about non-compliance with the standard seemed very persuasive to VCAT and it's a shame that Nathan Laffan didn't have the benefit of such a persuasive witness :'( All he had was the following: It's such a shame ... with slightly more persuasive evidence at hand he could have had a better chance. I wish he had sought legal advice. He wouldn't have needed a lawyer to attend the hearing with him - just to guide the way with the preparation of evidence and make sure that he addressed the areas being addressed by the tribunal. Geez, he was even led astray by the council when they told him to do DNA testing on the dogs. Given what has happened, I suspect that the applicant wants to leave it behind him but there probably are grounds for judicial review of this decision.

It worked for our two. We wanted them to bark to be let out the back door (before we had a dog door) - Elbie used to have a bad habit of just standing by the back door expectantly in silence as if we would just magically be able to read his mind :) So we woofed at them and they woofed back. Eventually we gave it a word 'speak' and they will speak on command but also know to speak when wanting to be let out.

Regarding DNA, the decision provides as follows:

I was reading the VCAT decision here. Insane. Especially when you compare it with Tonka's case. It seems really problematic to be deeming a dog to be a restricted breed because its physical form appears to comply with the checklist of features that passes for a 'standard'. The mind boggles. I find it sad how the legislation could have been drafted so poorly to lead to such an unjust result.

After you buy a certain number of bags of Royal Canin from Pet Barn, you get a large Royal Canin kibble storage bin for free ...

Aside from the fact that I object to putting pit bulls down on the basis of their breed, even if we accept that the law provides that restricted breeds can be euthanised by the authorities - it's still very disturbing from a procedural perspective. I would have hoped that the authorities would have the onus of proving that the dog was either actually dangerous OR fell within one of the restricted breed categories. How on earth was this guy going to disprove the fact that his dogs were not restricted breeds? DNA tests are unreliable. From what I can see, based on the way the case was run, if they had grabbed any random crossbreed and said that it was a restricted breed, it would have been very difficult to argue that the dog wasn't a restricted breed except on the basis of appearance. I know that with these dogs, they are large enough and their colouring is close enough for it all to be arguable, but really the basis is the same and still very flawed.

gone - same thing was happening with Hoover's nose - Hoover's my red and tan Kelpie. I was really worried about it because it was depigmenting and bleeding a little bit at the time. The cracking and bleeding is gone but the depigmenting is still happening. His nose is normally a dark brown/dark red but now parts have gone very pale. The tests showed that it was not cancerous and the vet said that all we could do was try to put sunscreen on - which is hard because he licks it off. They said even if we can make him keep the lotion on for a few minutes that helps so I put the lotion on and try to distract him with a cookie :) Hope it helps.

That was sooooo cute. Doesn't Cocoa know that bok choy is delicious???? :) Also, Cocoa is beautiful - my favourite colouring.