koalathebear

She may be naughty but she's very pretty.

Most pounds are incredibly short-staffed. Some of the rural pounds only have one ranger who is barely keeping things afloat. I hear what you're saying and you're clearly dog savvy enough that you know what you're looking for so can adopt directly from a pound. Not everyone is like that. The reason I'm suggesting people go to a breeder/rescue is that I'm not going to be there to help out if things go wrong and if I'm going to recommend something to someone, I'd like to recommend them to pursue a course of option that's going to give them a support network or some support if things go wrong. You act like going to rescue means that a pound dog dies. It really doesn't. The more people source from the rescue, the more pound dogs rescue can save. The rescue I'm with gives priority to the pound dogs and surrenders come second. They work with the pounds and there are rangers who are very happy to work with rescue because they're able to rehome all over the country and give the dogs a chance to access homes they might not otherwise be able to have. If someone feels comfortable adopting directly from the pound, then go for it - I'm all for it. If they want some support, then rescue/good breeder is the way to go.

Hoover had a tooth removed a month or two ago. It was $600+ including theatre time, anaesthesia, disposal of waste blah blah blah.

I can see where you're coming from with this but I don't at all agree. The trouble with going off our own experiences is that they're incredibly limited. If we put up our own 'horror stories' with the amount of successful adoptions direct from pounds of first time owners, we'd likely see our fears shouldn't be fears at all - we just tend to hear about (and see) the horror stories more. Most of the dogs we've had have just required basic training and that basic training and how to implement can be easily learned from searching on Google - not much experience necessary. Plenty of videos on Youtube showing you how to get a dog's focus, teach him to sit, stay, drop, etc. It's always worth, for any adopter, to just look at the individual dog - no matter where it's coming from. Some dogs in pounds will require basic training, some will require a lot more, and some will require a lot less too. For anyone who seriously does doubt their own capabilities, being guided by a reputable breeder and good rescue group could be the best way to go. I can also see where you're coming from even though I don't agree with you either :) I agree there are a lot of things where the horror stories can put people off - just do a search about dog parks on DOL and you'd think that they were the worst possible place in the world to go ... and we've been taking our dogs to the local dog park for the last 2+ years without any problems. You read a lot of horror stories about fostering and we've had a wonderful experience fostering despite even having had parvo puppies earlier this year ... I don't doubt that a lot of people have successful adoptions from the pound but being on the rescue end of things, I see a lot of the stories that don't have happen endings and I think that although it doesn't completely remove the risk, adoption from a good breeder or a good rescue mitigates that risk to some extent. Our rescue lists pound dogs and while they don't facilitate adoptions directly from the pound - people can foster with a view to adopt which means that they get the benefit of support from the rest of the carers and also the rescue. In many cases, they end up adopting the pound dog they've been fostering. In some instances, while they loved the look of the dog which is why they applied - it turned out that the dog wasn't a good fit so they either fostered the dog and had it adopted out to someone else, or the dog went to another carer to foster. I've owned working dogs for several years now and as I've mentioned almost all of my foster dogs have been from the pound but I still wouldn't adopt a dog straight from the pound. There are too many variables. I have seen for myself how much a dog's personality can be different in a pound environment to when it's in a home environment. I'm a big fan of youtube and self-learning and a lot of our dog training has been learned from obedience class and also youtube - but there are some dogs with behavioural issues that are too acute that simply teaching them tricks and focus work isn't going to be enough. I've lost count of the number of rather sad, barely coping owners I've seen at obedience school who are really struggling with a dog that they adopted directly from the pound - usually it's dog reactivity. I'm all for people who feel confident enough in their dog behaviour assessment abilities to go and adopt from the pound but I still think that for the rest of us, it's a better option for dog and human to go through a breeder/rescue. As I mentioned above - given that our rescue has the 'fostering with a view to adopt' option for the pound dogs, that seems a good middle-ground between your viewpoint and mine.

I agree - there are heaps of dogs in rescue that would satisfy their criteria and I don't regard them as being overly specific. Much easier to satisfy than some of the weird ones I come across like - must weigh the same as my previous dog/must look exactly the same as my previous dog, must be a purebred border collie with classic markings etc etc. I find it much easier to match dogs on the basis of temperament.

For me, I don't think any inexperienced dog owners should adopt directly from a pound. I really applaud the desire to give a dog a second chance, but I've seen it end sadly too many times. Dogs can present and behave so differently in a pound environment and unless you're very experienced, it's hard to know what they're really like. I've even seen dogs behave so differently with different foster carers - wonderful with one, awful with the next or vice versa. There are never any guarantees but I do believe that going with an ethical breeder you trust or going with a reputable rescue group that fosters dogs in homes is the best way to to go. That way you get at least a little backstory on the dog, with the group I'm with you get a trial period. I give ongoing support/advice/assistance for all of my fosters and would take any of them back in a heartbeat. Finding a breeder you trust is really important, too. My dog Hoover's breeder would take him back in a heartbeat - not that we'd ever part with him. We have recently had a difficult situation with a beautiful-looking dog with severe behavioural issues who really should have gone back to his breeder to have the situation addressed but his owners ended up having no option but to surrender him to rescue. This was a very well-known breeder of long-standing as well, so it's so important to find a breeder that you trust as a person not just as a name. It is definitely not the case that all rescues require dogs to sleep inside. It's actually a point of contention for me sometimes :D I pretty much refuse to adopt any of my dogs out to homes that won't let them at least sleep in a laundry/kitchen at night but our rescue definitely does rehome to families who want an outside-only dog so I occasionally have a lively debate about my fosters when the adoption applications come in. :laugh: With our foster carers, it's about 50/50 in terms of people who raise their fosters to be inside dogs or outside dogs. When recommending dogs to people who submit general applications (i.e. don't specify a dog but want recommendations), if they want an outside only dog I while often make sure I recommend dogs that have been fostered outside/don't mind sleeping outside so that the transition to a new home is easier. I definitely do not agree that pound dogs are damaged dogs. I foster working dogs and I find that the main reason the dogs we look after end up in care is because they are completely untrained, bored out of their brains, smart and have never been taught to have an off-switch. If you look through my Foster Dog thread here on DOL, you'll see that the majority of my fosters (including my current one) have been pound dogs and all of them have been incredibly wonderful, smart and loving dogs who are now part of a loving family who absolutely adore them. All the homes who have adopted our foster doggies still keep in touch with us and sends updates and I think that they would disagree mostly violently that their beloved family member was 'damaged' :laugh:

Thank you! I love all the fosters we've had through here and all of their owners keep in touch which is sooooo nice for me. It's gradually working! She's getting used to the loud noises and while she still darts off to the side, her 'circle' is getting smaller :laugh: Juniper hung out for a while as Office Dog to keep my husband company as he was programming :) She chilled out with Hoover Hoover and Elbie tell her off when she noms them too much. Dodge is too soft and lets her nom him to death so the poor thing is covered in little scabs and lumps. We have to supervise their interactions now because while she is very gentle with humans, she's a bit rough with Dodge. He has Stockholm's Syndrome though and loves her and still likes to share a dog bed with her!?! Received the loveliest update about Ollie, our foster who was adopted in September 2012. His mum says: "Don't get around to facebook much these days but thought you might enjoy a few pics from the back garden. No bum biting but lots of wrestling - Pip still has a lot of play in her for a 10yr old ACD. Thought you might like the ones of Ollie racing around the garden- I couldn't keep up with him. Pip of course just lay on the grass and watched his tomfoolery..... Queen Pip and running, you have to be joking! Need to get you a photo of the kids giving Ollie hugs- he loves all the attention. Pip and Ollie are firm buddies which exactly what I was hoping for, although Pip has had to share the couch and the kid scraps. Actually Ollie has us all wrapped around his paw. Mum and dad pick him up every Tues along with the kids as I work late on a Tuesday. He gets to hang out with the grandparents, their 3 dogs and 2 cats and is in 7th heaven. Gemma at 2.5 is really funny as she keeps trying to tell him to spin, but she hasn't,t quite got the arm movement right yet and he keeps trying to shake her hand. V funny. " Ollie and Pip Ollie's sister Queen Pip, the 10 year old ACD :)

tdierikx and DD, to be honest, it hadn't occurred to me that the similar energy levels would make a difference because our three are so slothful when around the house. They're very active outside and when at dog park etc but in the house, they tend to just sleep and chill but she does seem to have slotted herself in quite well. A lot of the fosters when we first get them are quite twitchy and restless but our resident dogs do seem to settle them after a while. Here she is chilling with Dodge in A Tangle of Kelpies :) Juniper's certainly much less anxious now, she's coming up for pats. I can get her to through doorways. Initially, I had to send our dogs to places I wanted her to go i.e. call out "kitchen" or "outside!" or "study!" or "inside!" and she'd follow but now she's willing to come through a doorway. She will come up if I crouch down but if anyone's walking near/towards her, she will run away. My 'cheaters' way of addressing this is I lock skittish fosters in the kitchen with me when I'm cooking/baking. I'm walking back and forth and ignoring them and they seem to relax as they realise: "OMG human is approaching me ... oh she isn't coming at me at all". It's a way to keep an eye on them while cooking but also relax them. I got a really, really lovely update today from former foster Baxter's family. They adopted him more than a year ago (early September 2012) and still keep in touch and he is soooooo pampered. He was a nuisance barker when we got him, had no mealtime manners, knew no tricks, was so skittish when people patted him. He was still a bit shy when we adopted him out but his family have done really great work with him and he's not scared of people at all anymore. He was originally going to be an outside dog but he's very much inside and part of the family. Anyway, this is the update: "Just wanted to send through some photos and give a quick update on Baxter. We had decided that his birthday would be on the first weekend in September (until we recently saw on his vaccination certificate that his date of birth is in March, oops), so we had a little party for him and Rachel made him a cake (see attached photos). He didn’t seem too impressed by the party hat, but the little guts attacked the birthday cake with gusto. We took him over to the coast a few weeks ago. He was a bit intimidated by the ocean at first, but then followed me in and seemed to be enjoying it – until when he was swimming back to the shore and got dumped by a wave. It wasn’t a big wave (it’s a dog beach), but I think it scared him a little bit, so no more ocean dips for Baxter. He did love running around on the sand though, and there was a quieter part at a river mouth and he was happy to go for a splash there (see photos). He’s just been for his vaccination booster and the vet was extremely happy with his health. He still bugs me every morning to go for a run. We went for a 12km run yesterday morning around the lake and back, and I thought this would tire him out, but no, I was stuffed when we got back, and he went straight out into the backyard to chase flies (still his favourite pastime)." I'm so happy for him because he was so wretched and unwanted in his previous two homes and the poor boy had also done a stint in the pound :'(

Awww thanks! She's a really nice little dog. Very naughty and crazy but as she's completely untrained, that's not surprising :) She's had a few time outs but seems to be catching on now. Playing with the dogs in the yard Learning to chill Time-out for being too rambunctious Off-Switch activated - humans on facebook means dogs must chill out in dog beds :)

Elbie, Hoover and Dodge have a new friend - Ava's younger brother Epic. They had a play date yesterday. We had stacks of photos but here's a selection.

To be fair, the temp carer owned Kelpies a long time ago and currently has 3 little Shih Tzus so I suspect having a naughty, untrained young Kelpie was a little overwhelming :) We picked up Cylone Juniper today. Least we know she's good with small fluffies :laugh: She had a good romp in our backyard with our doggies She's smallish. About Dodge-sized at around 12 kg She's very, very scared of people still But is a very sweet girl with lots of potential. I started working with her today with a clicker. Nothing fancy, just getting her used to the concept. I'm happy to say that we have managed to find and activate her off-switch.

The forms have been received and someone will reply as soon as possible - but all the volunteers are very busy right now. There have been a LOT of surrenders recently and there are dozens of earlier ones in the queue. There are also a very large number of pound dogs in need right now and the death row dogs are the priority Sorry I can't be of more help - it's just extremely busy right now.

All the other Gundagai dogs have been quite angelic and Juniper looked so demure in her pound photo. Who knew she was like a force of nature :laugh: Apparently she doesn't keep still ... first thing we're going to have to train is an off-switch! :) I texted her temp carer yesterday and asked how things were and she said: "The house is still standing". I'm sure she can't wait until we pick up the naughty Kelpie!

We're picking Juniper up tomorrow from temp care. She is being called Cyclone Juniper given that this is how she trashed her poor temp carer's yard ...

Awwww. I didn't realise you knew my monsters :) They are awesome dogs - smart, great company and also help us rehabilitate our foster doggies. I am so sorry to hear about your dog and am thinking of you. HW I totally agree with you and I don't think one should ever buy a dog on the basis of ONE factor alone, whether it is appearance, fur type, longevity, health, its dog sport potential etc. It should always be based on a number of factors and each person will weight the various factors differently depending on what is important to him or her. If health and longevity is an important factor then I don't see the issue in considering say considering a dog that has a higher likelihood of good health over a dog in which certain health conditions may be more prevalent. I don't think any one can deny that there are certain illness that seem to pop up more frequently in certain breeds ... I know you say that working breeds still have health issues but: 1. As you know, dog sports like agility and flyball etc can be pretty tough physically on any dog so if a dog is doing a lot of dog sports, you increase the chance of injury no matter how careful you are as a handler. So yes, there will be instances of working dogs with injuries in dog sports. 2. I know that some people think that temperament issues can be a problem if people are breeding to emphasise one particular trait e.g. dog sport ability at the cost of other traits. The more responsible breeders aim for a well-rounded dog - a dog that is structurally sound but is also calm and has an off-switch, is friendly to humans and people. 3. All dogs can have health problems - I have also heard of HD and epilepsy in Kelpies and BCs etc but it doesn't seem to be common - I'm just saying that there are some breeds who seem to have certain health issues pop up more regularly. There are no guarantees, all we can do is TRY to shift the odds in our favour a little more when we adopt a dog - this is done by picking a breeder we trust, by picking a certain breed, by perhaps picking a particular age group. I know that a lot of people have concerns/aversions to working dogs and I normally do not 'push' them on people, but Maeby Fünke had already indicated in a previous post that she rather liked Border Collies and Australian Shepherds so I didn't think that she was one of those people who disliked working breeds/had ruled a working dog out of her list of possible breeds which is why I chimed into the discussion. I can't imagine too many pug owners finding the switch to a working breed an easy one. I am not sure this is necessarily correct although I know what you mean. I have to say that I know a lot of people with breed mixes you wouldn't expect. A few workers in the mix as well as a little lap dog ... Also, aside from whether or not it's easy for a pug owner to cross to the Dark Side of the Force and own a working breed, while I know that a LOT of people struggle with working dogs (I foster for a working breed rescue so I see this every day!), I really think that it's not that they picked the wrong breed - they picked the wrong DOG. The range of temperaments even within one litter (let alone within a breed) can vary. Within the same litter, you can have the laid back dogs, the drivey dogs, the placid dogs. Out of my three dogs, our Working Kelpie Council Kelpie is the most chilled and laid back of the bunch. He could easily run 60km a day without getting tired, but in his litter, he was the most chilled and relaxed. I am not kidding when I tell you that this is what our dogs spend most of the day doing: Yes they love their walks, dog park, agility, play dates and doing nose works but they're also totally happy to chill out around the house as long as their humans are nearby. We live in a normal sized house and yard in Canberra. When my father was dying of cancer and we were at Canberra Hospital all the time, the dogs didn't get a walk. When we had parvo pups earlier this year, we locked down all of our dogs for a month (no walks, no dog park, no dog club, no agility, no obedience etc) until the stool samples confirmed that the pups were no longer shedding parvo and we had decontaminated the house ... Our dogs were totally fine confined to the house as long as they had their mental enrichment - tricks training and human time. It's not just our dogs either, every single foster dog we get, if they don't come with an off-switch, it's the first thing we teach them. The dogs we take in are usually the ones surrendered for being crazy, untrained, destructive doggies and we teach them how to chill out and be couch potatoes because it makes them way easier to adopt out if they've got that off-switch. The actual 'workers', don't come to us for fostering and will go to a different carer who trains up their working ability and I agree that those dogs might not be happy with your average owner as a pet BUT as I mentioned before, it's all about finding the right dog and I believe that anyone can own e.g. a Kelpie as long as they want to own a Kelpie and they pick the right one and are willing to provide it with the appropriate level of intellectual and physical enrichment. Everyone has to start somewhere - before we owned Elbie my husband was a cat person and I hadn't ever owned my own dog let alone a working dog - we are also the world's worst desk potatoes ;)

I think that the subject of this post is a completely legitimate question to ask and even though people are saying that lines are more important than breeds, I do think it is the case that there are breeds that seem to be more prone to health issues than others. It doesn't mean that all dogs of that breed are sick. Bernese Mountain Dogs don't have the greatest longevity and many die of cancer, there are many Boxers who get cancer, Dalmatians can be prone to hyperuricemia, certain breeds are more prone to HD, skin problems, breathing problems than other breeds etc etc Yes, it depends on the lines to a certain extent but statistically there are breeds out there that seem to have more issues. Kelpies can definitely get cancer, Cerebellar ataxia, HD, epilepsy etc but I still think it's less common. Kelpies don't have the best longevity - the little dogs seem to have that, but a healthy Kelpie has a good chance at a pretty good life span. Same with Koolies. I do think your chances of a healthy dog will be increased if you go with an ethical breeder of working dogs ...

Latest foster ... this is Juniper's pound photo from Gundagai Pound. It really doesn't so her justice. She's a very shy, frightened little girl but extremely affectionate and anxious for pats - she just crawls on her belly to get them and runs away from you if you're standing up. She also urinates in fear. I'm not sure what her past was. We can't foster her immediately because she's not vaccinated, so I had her vaccinated while she was still at the pound and now while her vaccinations kick in, she's being temp cared by a fellow foster carer's mother - who has applied to foster so that she can help. This guy hitched a ride for the Tuckerbox-Queanbeyan leg of today's journey. His name is Max and he's a 5 year old Maltese/JRT whose owner died recently. He's now in care with Maree at Canberra Pooch Rescue. We took Juniper to Braidwood to meet up with her temp carer. Waiting in the cold and wind :) Here she is in temp care We'll pick her up next week.

I agree. Like most things, it's not the message that's the problem it's the delivery and if you want to make sure the message is received in the spirit in which it's intended, it has to be delivered properly. During agility class, people are often told to get some weight off their dogs and in that situation, I don't think I've ever seen anyone be offended.

I think it's something that really depends on the relationship. For agility, it's probably all right for an instructor to tell someone to get some weight off a dog i.e. it's one of the pre-requisites for safety reasons that your dog is a healthy weight to be able to do agility so if a dog is getting porky, it can't stay in the class and an instructor is entitled to point that out. It's similar to a dog with a limp not being able to finish a class etc. I'd never just bring up a dog's weight if I had just met the person or if they weren't a close friend. To be honest, my dog friends are all pretty dog savvy so I couldn't even imagine bringing it up with dog friends without them getting offended. In the context of an obedience class, I know a lot of people who get quite offended when 'even' an instructor tells them about their dog's weight. The instructor might think that they have the dog's best interests at heart and might mistakenly think that they a bond/rapport with that dog's owners that makes it acceptable to make that sort of personal observation but just because someone doesn't seem offended there and then doesn't mean that they don't go and express their feelings of hurt to friends and family. Everyone has a different definition of tact and as with all things, it's not how it's delivered, it's how it's actually received, so it's critical that if you're going to make a comment about someone's dog's weight, that you genuinely have the 'right' to do so and don't just think that you do. Dog comments are no different from any other comments and you never really know how something you say is going to be received. People offend all the time without meaning to or knowing they have done so. When screening applicants for our foster dogs (and also doing yard checks), if we notice that the resident dog is very fat, I will remark about what the healthy weight is for the foster dog and why it is best for our foster dog to maintain a healthy weight. I'll also try to find out the reasons why the resident dog is so fat e.g. scavenging around small children at dinner time. It's going all right so far, to be honest in both cases I've had to make a comment, the family has actually put their resident dog on a diet and will report back to me not just on the foster dog's progress but on their resident dog's weight loss journey: "She has a waist again!" :)

And little Frida (not so little anymore) is doing really well in Victoria as well. Here's a lovely video. I can't embed vimeo videos unfortunately but it's so lovely:

Former foster Smudge visited Canberra recently when chequeredblackdog and Reggie were competing in the agility trial at CDC. Smudge has lost her puppy teeth and has had a growth spurt!!! She is still beautiful :) Nutmeg (now Nina) in Victoria is also doing well :)

One of my dogs scoots when he gets excited. It's kind of embarrassing. He'll meet a new person. He knows he has to sit for pats so he does an extremely desperate sit, staring up with a *please pat me or I'll die* expression on his face - and then he'll scoot :p He never scoots at any other time though.

Danny's Darling - they're big and fluffy - so cute :) Kuma's known Elbie and Hoover since they were all puppies and they love playing together. He only met Dodge last year but they've all accepted one another as one big happy family. To be honest, my doggies seem to love all dogs - I think the endless foster dogs they meet have been good for them :laugh: