Pretty Miss Emma

PME is there a thread regarding your probs with Em? If not, mind if I ask what the problem was etc? Em seemed to have slight incontinence (presented as periodic incontinence maybe a couple of times a month when I first got her as a 9yo) so we put her on Stilboestrol. That worked brilliantly for about 12-18 months. She was always a big drinker, got her bloods done early when she first came to live with me - no problems at all, perfect!!!! The Stilboestrol stopped working (apparently this is not uncommon), so we changed her on to Propalin. Again worked really well, then I started seeing a few accidents again. Did urine and bloods early 2010, came back with nothing. Started looking into testing for Cushing's as that testing was more complex and also discussed testing for diabetes insipidus. Did a water test for her (she drank 2.3L as a 17kg dog = 500ml too much). So then did urine again in April 2010 (after her incontinence was getting worse) not long after the water. Came back with really high sugar in her blood. Immediately did a spot BGL and it was high, within a week she was on twice daily insulin. Apparently in dogs diabetes can often show up in this way - out of the blue, not many symptoms leading up to it and not necessarily showing up clearly in early tests. Anyway she did really well until the October, then went completely blind within 2 weeks from diabetes induced cataracts. We had surgery to remove them. Lots of complications followed. She also had a bug in her lungs and developed pneumonia in April this year (diabetics are exceptionally susceptible to infections). This then caused her to become hyperglycaemic and we spent 3 months trying to battle getting her BGL back to what it should be. Then 12 July she was not good, thought it was due to incorrect insulin dose, was actually kidney failure and she was PTS that day (her kidneys were totally shot and there was no course of treatment that would have ensured her any quality of life). She'd had bloods done maybe a month earlier and everything was great, then everything fell apart. So a huge trail of issues, and I was doing blood tests every 6 months on her and very regular urine testing. Sometimes things just come up suddenly and you just do what you can. In all honesty through all of this it also came down to me trusting my gut. There were times when I kept up with following up little hints that something wasn't right and I do have a very supportive vet who would always recommend appropriate testing and do whatever testing I asked for - it served us well in her treatment and diagnosis. But the 2 biggies - diabetes and kidney failure - took all of us by suprise because she wasn't presenting as having typical symptoms of those until the day of diagnosis.

Normal water intake for a dog is approximately 100ml per kg. That's the easy calculation. There's a bit of give and take. As it's winter less water intake would be expected, but less intake would mean that it isn't dilute (as it still is removing salts so therefore is more likely to be concentrated if they aren't drinking much). I know that Em was tricksy with her water intake she was always locked in the house with 1 water bowl when we did a water test as she would drink from every pot plant, bucket, puddle she could find!!!!

That tether looks great!!!

Just been reading through the second link - is he serious? I can't believe anyone can do all the things he suggests You mean the socializing the puppy with 100 different people before 3 months? Nah, easy to achieve. *sarcasm* Beyond easy. I got my pup to meet 125 people and 17 dogs within 2 months,it's just about making it a priority ans catching up with every person you know in a short period of time!

I Have a little one who has eaten through 4 leads while tethered in the back of my car. I got a short length of chain (about 1-1.5ft) and it has a carabiner (or you could use a dog clip) at each end and gets attached to her harness and a tether point in the car. But a double ended leash would do the same thing if yours don't eat through leashes!!!

Thankyou for asking the question because I would also like to hear the answer!!!

You are describing the exact scenario I had in my house 1.5 years ago!!! It took about 2 weeks before there was tolerance, and then within 2 months it moved from tolerance to love!!! Up until the day before I had to have Emma PTS she was still putting Kenzie in her place if she needed to! Old dogs teach young dogs how to have doggy manners - at least that's what happened in this house!

It's so nice to hear you talking about dogs that do the same thing as my little munchkin. Having a reactive dog can be a bit isolating sometimes! But we also play LAT. It is brilliant!! I saw success from the moment we started playing and she has been getting better and better. Sometimes we have a slip up, so we just move back a step. But we now have whole walks where there are dogs running, barking at us behind gates, etc and she doesn't react. I'm also loving the "hey, I looked at it. HEY, I looked at it. Can't you see me looking at it?!" that she is starting to give me (obviously only in situations where I know she can cope with the look twice before getting a reward!).

I'd be looking for a second opinion. When Em was incontinent we discussed "Psychogenic Polydipsia", but it was recommended to do other testing as it is not often that is the only issue going on. Given what I've gone through in the last 18 months with medical issues with Emma - and all of it stemmed from the symptoms of drinking a bit much and having incontinence - I would strongly recommend making sure every other problem is ruled out. Full bloods should cost you less than $200 and compared to what it could cost if it is a bigger underlying problem I'd say it could be some of the best money spent even if only for peace of mind.

If you are suspecting it could be an ear infection I'd get him to the vet straight away, apart from it being painful for the little one leaving it another week could result in a great deal more treatment being required (ie it might go from needing basic treatment to needing a long course of antibiotics, follow up creams etc). The liver treats could be causing the farting. I know my girl gets a bit stinky and farty (and sometimes gets really soft poo) when she has too many liver treats. Use them very sparingly and see if that makes a change. When Kenzie was a pup she got very real treats as she was happy to work for her dry food. Now it's a different story and we are much more fussy!!!! But her gut handles the variety better now, introduce all new things in small amounts slowly so his gut can get used to them.

My breed chose me!!!! Ok, well my lovely Emma chose me, and of course that made me fall in love with the breed - and it's all working good as far as I'm concerned!!

Kenzie would probably go to one of my friends (there are about 3 who argue which should have her in that event!!). The cats would likely go to my parents or my brother. But my immediate family would still want visiting rights with Kenzie - they love her to bits but also recognise that they could not meet her needs as well as some of my friends could and they know that I always want the best for my critters.

Heavy drinking and incontinence can be a key indicator for diabetes. Get bloods done to rule this out. With my old girl we tested her urine for sugar when I first noticed her drinking more and her incontinence getting worse - nothing showed. We then did urine and bloods a few weeks later and she had developed diabetes and needed to be put on insulin. It could also be a problem with kidney function. As others have said UTI would be a ringing out in my head too. Or maybe there is a muscular/hormonal problem causing incontinence - in which case there are medications that can be used. Don't let what I've said send you into a panic - this is just going from my experience of similar symptoms (similar not the same!!). But I certainly don't think it is normal and I would do some hunting to try and find the cause and treat it. Chances are your dog is probably not feeling so great about the accidents either (I used to find that Em would look embarrassed whenever it happened - yes I'm anthropomorphising, but I could tell it upset her somewhat).

Kenzie always gets a "Mummy loves you" every night at bedtime, as did Emma. I still send Emma the same thought, and now I've got her ashes sitting beside my bed so they are the last thing I see each night and first thing I see in the morning. It's nice that she is sleeping with me and Kenz again. You can never tell them too many times that they are loved. Thoughts are with you Tobster - have been there. Not fun but I know they appreciate it when you visit them and let them know you are still there for them. Hope all works out for you. Gayle - I am finding that things are a bit easier, but they're not the same. As you know! Too many good dogs in such a short time, and all such loved ones.

I'm confused about the difference between a "sticky stuff" kong and a "dry" kong. I use a combination of both when I give a kong. Peanut butter or cream cheese smeared inside so the kibble (or other dry things) stick to the sides. And I'll put inside a mixture of kibble, "treats", chicken, tinned food, cheese, etc. Sometimes I will make up one that is mainly dry food with just a couple of little bits of peanut butter or cream cheese.

If any of you use Gingko Biloba as part of dementia treatment I have some listed in Members Marketplace which you can have for the price of postage. Just wanted to let you know here in case you don't visit that section.

The OP has used the incorrect term for it - it's commonly called a killed parvo vaccination (not kill parvo) - ie Parvac. It's an inactivated vaccine. Aha!!!! That makes a lot more sense!!

My immediate thought was anal glands!! When Kenzie had a problem with hers, I noticed exactly what you have described!!

Warning, may be long and rambly; but it says what I want to share and hopefully you can understand why everyone loved Emma! For me this story starts on Friday 23 November 2007. That was the night before I was going to do a volunteer shift at the RSPCA. As I sometimes did I checked out their dogs for adoption on their website. There was this most adorable grey shaggy terrier thing. I didn't have a dog at the time, so figured I'd check him out when I was there the next day. There were also 2 border collies, obviously brought in together, but they were old. So did my shift the next day then wandered down to adoptions. No shaggy grey terrier. But the most beautiful black and white border collie, Emma, was there. In the pen beside her was Merlin, he had lived with her and both had been surrendered. Both were 9 years old. Merlin was busy being a border collie, jumping, running, etc etc. Emma was hanging out down the back of her pen. But when I bent down and asked her to come over she came up to the front and we had a bit of a chat and a scratch through the door. She was so small and lovely. I can still take you to the pen she was in (and I always check out who's in there when I visit). I wasn't in the market for a border collie, they're active and bigger than I thought I'd get. But maybe this Emma would be different she seemed different. Everytime I ever researched dogs it was always border collies. Anyway, I went and visited my parents for the rest of the day. I heard a week or so later that all I did was spend my whole day talking about this beautiful border collie I had seen. Sunday 26 November. For some reason I went to the stockfeed store and bought a dog bed. I wasn't getting a dog just yet, but had decided that I would in the near future and it's good to be prepared. Visited a friend. After me telling them for 2 hours about this beautiful border collie I had seen the previous day they persuaded me to go back out to the RSPCA (45 min drive!)at 3pm to go and meet her properly. We spent 45 minutes together. Spoke at length with the adoption officer about her age and what that may bring. I didn't care, she was perfect. She was to be mine. I had to go on school camp the next day, so we agreed they would hold her there for me for the week and I would call to confirm the next morning that I still wanted her. I don't think they were expecting a 7am phone call to say of course I wanted her!!! I think the whole year level I was on camp with knew that I couldn't wait for us all to get back to Melbourne and for them to get picked up. I believe the most frequent statement out of my mouth that camp was "I'm getting a dog on Saturday and she's beautiful!". The kids were sick of hearing it by the end of the week!! Saturday 1 December 2007, one of the best days of my life. Around 10am I was out there ready to pick up my beautiful girl. From the moment we walked out of the place she belonged to me and I belonged to her. We visited Mum and Dad so they could meet their new "grandchild" (as close as they were getting to having one anyway!!). Where ever I went Emma followed. I learnt that day that when you have a very special border collie you never even go to the toilet alone!!! Pretty Miss Emma on her very first day of her life with me!! 2008 was our first year of milestones. Emma became an RSPCA education dog (I was volunteering on school holidays and she would come along to interact with the children). That's when we figured out that everyone who met this dog would fall in love with her. She had something to give to everyone who she met. Seeing as though she had just been adopted from the RSPCA I applied for her to be considered for the 2009 RSPCA dog calendar. Of course she made the cut!! My little Miss April 2009! 2008 was also the year I joined my local dog club (Keilor Obedience Dog Training Centre). Everyone thought I was stupid. I had such a well behaved dog who would do anything I asked of her and she was 9 years old, why did she need obedience school. My answer to this, she's a border collie it doesn't matter how old she is she needs mental stimulation and she'll find it fun. So I coerced some friends to join also (I'm the only one still going!!). Everyone at KODTC fell in love with her straight away, even the non-BC people!! She zoomed through the classes and was in the top class by the end of the year. In June of 2008 Emma also was tested and approved to become a Delta Therapy Dog. We started visiting a nursing home and she was just a delight to those that lived there. There were a few people who she was really special for. One lady suffered extremely severe depression, she often wouldn't let anyone come into her room; but as soon as she saw Emma's freckled nose poke through the door we were welcomed with open arms. Another lady had very bad memory issues; we had the same conversation every time I was there (that's a lovely dog, what breed is she, what does she get for dinner, how old is she), I remeber so clearly the day we walked in and she announced "Emma the border collie is here, she's 9 years old. I think she's going to have sardines for dinner tonight" - it just about made me cry that my beautiful girl could have such a massive impact on someone who she saw for 15 minutes once a week. 2009 we continued doing what we were doing. Pet therapy once a week, obedience school on a Sunday (by this point I was so hooked on training that I had started doing the internal volunteer training course we offer!!), school holiday programs at the RSPCA (which was when she met Leo - an Ellagant dog!) and then the agility bug bit! Some friends did some agility training and I though Em would love that. But she was 10 years old now, could you do that with a 10 year old? I figured we'd just do fun stuff and stick to ground work. Let her do what she could and just enjoy. So late 2009 we started doing NADAC trials. Everyone loved watching Emma run, with her tiny little legs (she was only 16.5" and all the missing height came from her legs!!) and being an oldie running the courses. She always got claps!! She often managed to come first or second in her division and usually managed pull a qualie at most trials. This year I was awarded best female hander at KODTC!! When I asked why, I just do what I do with my dog, I was told that was exactly why because of the way we work together and all the things that we do. That made me quite proud! 2009 was also a big year in Emma's lifetime. It was the year I decided that I was in love with border collies and one wasn't enough. Making that decision helped a lot of things fall in to place. I got in contact with breeders, narrowed down my search, found someone who was going to have a pup for me when the timing was perfect. In the weeks leading up to this I visited the Dog Day Out at KCC. Of course BC's gravitate to BC's!! We visited the BCCV group. While I was there I was asked where Emma was from, answer - RSPCA! That's when I was told no, this is a dog that has breeding behind her (I always thought she was beautiful and perfect, but didn't expect others to say that she might be this good!!). So I sent the person all the details I had about Em from when adopted her and a bit of extra stuff I had managed to find out. I had a phone call within the day telling me that the knew exactly who this dog was and that she was an Ellagant dog (felt a bit weird seeing as though I'd just been meeting Ellagant aussies!!)!!! Talk about suprised, I never expected to know anything more than I already did. It turned out that Emma was not only a dog with good breeding, but she had been a champion show puppy - then her legs stopped growing!! When she didn't make height she was placed in a pet home at the age of around 10 months or so, which is where she had spent the last 8 years of her life before she and I met. When I contacted the breeder they were mortified one of their dogs had ended up in a shelter, but so glad that she had ended up with me. So December 2009 Kenzie came on the scene, the adorable munchkin who was to make Em's life miserable for about a week and then all of a sudden she figured that it was actually ok to have someone to hang out with. 2010. Everything went along the same as it had been until April. Em wasn't quite right. She was diagnosed with diabeted. For about 3 days I was convinced the world was over, of course she just got on with life and looked at me as if to say "come on let's go for a walk". A diabetic dog is really not very different to any other dog, I know that now. There was a routine we had to follow, and we had to be a bit more strict with treats. But other than that the world kept turning. She had to stop her pet therapy as it was difficult to fit in with her insulin regime. But she kept attending obedience and agility classes, she kept running at NADAC trials. And she kept loving everyone and making everyone fall in love with her. October brought us some new challenges and stresses. Em ran a 2 day trial in early October, she had a fall on one of the days (and not a good one). She did follow that run with a qualie run - so typical of her to do something like that!! But I knew her vision was not what it should be. At my Mum and Dad's she had been running into wallks and not finding the door. So a couple of weeks later I took her to see a vet opthalmologist. She had cataracts and was totally blind, she only had light perception. Again, my world was over. She wasn't coping so well with this vision thing. Going totally blind in 2 weeks must be a pretty scary thing, and I could tell that she was struggling. So after lots of testing and weighing up the options she had cataract surgery. Everything went great for the first 10 days and then we hit trouble. She developed glaucoma. So the month of December was spent driving to the eye clinic almost every day. Of course what did this do? Cause a whole heap of new people to fall in love with her!!! They didn't like that she was coming in as it meant something was wrong, but they adored having her there. She was the perfect patient. She sometimes had to have the fluid in her eye drained (with a needle) to reduce the pressure, she would just sit there and let them do it. Had she been a different dog they would have given up on her, but even just last week she still had an appointment to try and deal with these issues!! This year... I was off to Africa for 7 weeks. I so didn't want to leave either of my girls but I was really scared leaving Emma. What if something went wrong? She had lovely people looking after her while I was gone, and I was able to have my holiday. She did what she always did - looked after everyone else!!! While I was away she had no problems, she made everyone's life easy. And yet again caused a few more people to fall in love with her!! After I got home the eye problems started again, this time retina detatching in April; she was pretty much blind again due to all the problems also. Treatment of this ended up with her in emergency with pneumonia (it had been lurking), then a few days later with hyperglycaemia. A very stressful time for everyone and I though I was going to lose my beautiful girl. But she pulled through and also made a few people in emergency fall in love with her! A few weeks after she came out of hospital I had a pet photographer here to take photos of the girls for a book the RSPCA is releasing. She also fell in love with her! Her diabetes had still not stabilised following her hospitalisation so we were at the vet each week looking at her BGL and adjusting her insulin. Then a few weeks ago, coinciding with an insulin dose increase she decided she didn't want to eat properly anymore. Everything else was normal. She still loved her treats, loved going for walks, would give Kenzie kisses each morning and night, loved sitting in the garden and listening to the birds and in the last week I had her loved coming to see the kids at school holidays program and getting as many pats as she could from them. Then we hit the time of what will be will be. She didn't want to eat, we did test and found out what was going on and while I was coming to grips over the last few weeks that she probably wouldn't be around as long as I wanted her to be I didn't think that she wasn't coming home form the vet last week. So on that day they calld me to come in immediately. I took Kenzie. They called my Mum and asked her to come over. Kenzie and I spent about an hour sitting with her. Kenzie kept lying beside her (she doesn't normally do this), kept laying her head on Em's legs (never does this!) and often would sniff her face and give her gentle kisses. Just before I had Emma put to sleep she licked Kenzie so gently all over her face and Kenzie just sat there and let her do it and then gave her a quick kiss back. Now it's been just over a week since my beautiful girl has been gone. My front door looks empty without an old black and white girl sitting there. And I miss taking my blind girl for a walk and having her so happy just to be out and about. I miss having my blind dog look at me and still be actually looking at my face even though I know she can't see me. I miss hearing Kenzie talk to her (this weird grumbly whingy thing!!). Today I got her ashes back and that makes it a tiny bit better. There have been many tears shed by very very many people in the last week about my beautiful girl - I'm so happy that she was able to touch so many people. While I miss her so much and want her back so badly I'm so glad that I was able to do what I did for her, both in the last 3.5 years of her life and also in the last hours of it. I hope everyone gets to meet the perfect dog just like I did. It was too short a time, but as I said to my Dad when he questioned me about getting an old "I'd rather have a great dog for a short time than never have her at all". And everyone who met her said - she was just a great dog, one you never forget. Pretty Miss Emma in January of this year.

I do positive reinforcement training, and if you don't know how to do clicker training it is probably easier to start +ve reinforcement and then move to clicker when you know what you're doing (they're very similar, but I find using the clicker takes a lot more coordination for people who haven't done it before). Can't help you with a puppy school due to being 000's of kms away, but a good puppy school will take you through the basics of training technique, just make sure you're happy with their training philosophy before you pay for classes!! Never heard of the "kill parvo" vacc, and when I googled it just then absolutely nothing came up. Maybe someone here knows about it and can give you an informed opinion. I wouldn't trust it at all. If it exists and really works that well, then why isn't every pup being sold getting it? I'd be playing it safe and keeping pup off the ground in areas that dogs frequent until such time as it has immunity - speak to your vet when you take him to the vet in the next couple of days for his post-purchase check as they may be able to help you with that one (plus I'm sure the info will be on his vacc card that the breeder will send with him and he vet will be able to decipher that). But I would certainly be carrying him around everywhere to meet as many people as possible for socialisation (Kenzie was carried in a bag with me for as long as I could carry her until I was happy she would be safe, and she's a BC). Teach him to toilet on command and I would think that you would be able to transfer surfaces relatively easily. Does it have to be artificial grass all the time for the next few weeks? Is that an indoor puppy loo for when you are not home? I'm just thinking that if you can take him out on the lawn when you are home and he only has to use the other surface when you aren't home that may make for an easier transition. These are all sort of just ideas, there are many people here who know mountains and will probably be able to give you much more succinct (?sp?!!) advice and have a great breadth of experience so will be able to provide you with information to help you weigh your options. Enjoy your pup!

Sorry for your loss.

I'm a sucker for a black and white dog!!!! Even when I look at dogs outside my breed I always love the black and white ones!! I'd love a tri, that's what I'd really like to have one day. But I want wonderful dogs and black and white tends to be where I always head!

He is gorgeous!!

I found one on Emma about 12 months after I got her. It never changed and never impacted her life at all. So hopefully it will just be as it is and not cause any stress to you or her. I think that they will sometimes remove them more if it becomes annoying to the dog (ie grows to a point where it somehow gets in the way), but otherwise they don't seem to cause problems. Good luck with the check up when you go back. (It will all be fine!!!)

If he hasn't had a full blood screen in a couple of years then I would be demanding it. Emma had one done in October last year that showed everything was fully functioning, she was PTS last week due to kidney failure which only showed up through the blood screen and her levels were off the chart. In old dogs things can change quickly and if my vet was recommending against routine blood tests in an old dog I would immediately change vets. It takes about 3 minutes for them to get a sample, they just hold the dog put in a needle and fill a vial then it gets sent off for testing. I know here it costs about $150+, so it can be pricey but it can tell you a lot. In terms of outings, if he isn't going to potter about keep him on leash, at least then he's out and about and you can control where and how fast he can go.