Abigail

Abigail I fail to understand how you can say you don't support BSL, yet your statements (above) DO support BSL. Do you not understand what BSL means (I explained it for you earlier) or is your cognitive literacy extremely low? I get sick of saying this, but ANY BREED OF DOG CAN KILL - most dog breeds have been involved in attacks on dogs and humans. Any dog or breed, similarly treated and contained, could have perpetrated this attack. And that brings us back to the breed of the dogs. I do not think they were staffies. Per se, this forum does not support BSL. It may be that you would be more comfortable on one which does support it? And cavaliers and westies are quite capable of killing - given the right situation. I would most certainly not be comfortable in a forum that supports BSL ! You are right in saying that even westies and cavaliers are quite capable of killing, I suppose at the end of the day all breeds of dogs are capable of doing so. Just one little observation, Ernie, what do you mean that "any dog similarly treated and contained, could have perpetrated this attack" ? I wasn't under the impression that those staffy crosses were maltreated in any way therefore I would not blame their deed on that; obviously if they were contained and unable to get out the chihuahuas would still be alive and that is what I am supporting - a situation that ensures that dogs are unable to get out of their own property and find themselves on a killing spree.

??? What stats and educated information is your obviously strong and undoubting opinion based on? I'd be interested to know. Obviously I am unable to come up with a list of numbers but I have owned a staffy 10 yrs ago and have known a fair number of people who did and not all were tossers, I can assure you of that. As I have said in the last post, is it not so that staffies were bred to fight dogs in the pit along with pitbulls? I'll just add my 2 cents worth to this debate - in my time as a Dog Obedience Instructor I NEVER saw a Staffy/Staffy Cross which wasn't DA - it is something of which most Obedience people are aware and allow for in classes (ie not letting Staffies getting too close to other dogs in "socialisation" exercises etc) ETA - almost all the Staffies I saw were great with people - just not with other dogs Thank you! :D

The breed of dogs that kill is of consequence and should not be discarded. Yes, these dogs did manage to get out due to an irresponsible owner and set out on a killing spree, it was the dogs' decision to kill! How they managed to get into the other property, I have no idea but they obviously heard the barking of those poor chihuahuas and thought all their birthdays had come at once. How many cavaliers or westies out there set out on a rampage and killed other people's pets????? This prick now owns 4 of those animals, pfft pathetic country we live in. Ok, you win lets restrict all breeds that have had one of their own kill something, I'll start off by suggesting Dachshunds because one up the road killed a cat, a min foxie and 3 chooks, and the dally I used to live next door to that killed a silky T . What is a "dally" ? How can you compare a chook to a dog? I don't doubt that many a westie or cavalier would probably love to chase and/or kill a chook; I don't think killing chooks is breed specific. What concerns me is that certain breeds of dogs, no matter how much socialisation they've had with other dogs, always seem to retain a certain sense of killer instinct. Having said that, there always will be the exception to the rule and I bet that there are many a pitbull that wouldn't hurt a fly.

What do you think this is Abigail??? If this is not BSL what on earth do you think it is??? Thats enforcing BSL!!! Take this, if I was a believer of BSL I would say so, in no uncertain term. If you want to play games with words, go right ahead. I am not going to apologise in saying what I have said. I still maintain that these dogs are not for everyone and not just anyone should be allowed to own them. A secure fence, an enclosure to ensure they cannot dig their way out or climb their way out and an owner that does not have a bleak past with these dogs! BSL means that these dogs should not be owned by just anyone and that is not what I am advocating here!

The breed of dogs that kill is of consequence and should not be discarded. Yes, these dogs did manage to get out due to an irresponsible owner and set out on a killing spree, it was the dogs' decision to kill! How they managed to get into the other property, I have no idea but they obviously heard the barking of those poor chihuahuas and thought all their birthdays had come at once. How many cavaliers or westies out there set out on a rampage and killed other people's pets????? This prick now owns 4 of those animals, pfft pathetic country we live in.

You have suggested breed specific legislation in this thread. What are you trying to say, Lo Pan ??? I am only bringing up the subject due to Crisovar's comment. I just wanted to make it loud and clear that I personally do not agree with BSL under any circumstance.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BERTIE, he is one very lucky pooch. Photos are tooo cute.

MissyPriss, you are not alone, you are in our thoughts. Unfortunately what you are having to do goes hand in hand with pet ownership, it is sad that we really only have them on borrowed time. Console yourself with the fact that you gave your boy all the love needed and now you are giving him the ultimate gift of love by not letting him suffer any longer. It is never an easy decision to make but a necessary one. Allow yourself the time to mourn him, it is only natural. Time will heal the pain.

Embarrassing? Rest assured that I am well aware that not all dogs of any particular breed are open to aggression, as I have said earlier, there is always the exception to the rule and I am sure that there are quite a few staffies out there that would not hurt a fly. I am also aware that all breeds of dogs can be DA including the fluffy white dogs but if, say, a german shepherd was to fight against a staffy I bet I know which will be more severely affected.

This is the sort of tripe that enables BSL and allows it to continue. I suggest you go and educate yourself before you make such broad statements in the future. I am definitely not an advocate of BSL and abhor the idea of it. Broad statements? I say not. IT is indeed true that all breeds are capable of escaping and causing harm but is it a coincidence that, most of the time, whenever a tragedy occurs and the dogs responsible are shown they do tend to look very much staffy/pitty? I know that prying a staffy's mouth open when it is biting another animal is almost impossible, they latch on for dear life and with that, I am not saying that I believe in the lock jaw theory, but I do believe in the tenacity of this breed.

mmm, yea....and hopefully no more victims along the way.

Thank you for that grumpette, I have been on here and didn't hear about the outcome! I am totally disgusted with such a verdict. What kind of excuse is that to say that it could not be proven which of the three dogs actually killed the chihuahuas? That is just pathetic!!!! And to think that the owner of these dogs now owns 4 of them, what a fuc&&ing world, no sense of justice. I can just imagine what the owner of those poor chihuahuas must have to endure now!

That's not what you said (above) and I'm still interested to know where the basis of your opinion stems from in that respect. But in regards to the above, why are you so breed specific about adequate fencing and people needing to be responsible owners? IMO that should apply no matter what breed of dog you have. Actually that is exactly what I meant when I stipulated that shires should ensure that no Tom, Dick or Harry should be allowed to own certain breeds of dogs. Okay, the reason I choose to be breed specific is because Staffies tend to be more prone to displaying aggression towards other dogs than other breeds, they clamp their jaws and do not let go for dear life, literally. Yes, adequate fencing should apply to all dogs but even more so to people owning more than one staffy as that is an accident waiting to happen.

??? What stats and educated information is your obviously strong and undoubting opinion based on? I'd be interested to know. Obviously I am unable to come up with a list of numbers but I have owned a staffy 10 yrs ago and have known a fair number of people who did and not all were tossers, I can assure you of that. As I have said in the last post, is it not so that staffies were bred to fight dogs in the pit along with pitbulls?

I am not defending the behaviour of the owner, nor anything else, for that matter. But here it is again .... signs of WHAT aggression? How do you KNOW it was aggression, LouiseBrooks. No-one should be putting labels on these dogs nor of their behaviour if you don't know what behaviour it really was. Whether you like the behaviour or not, it is not something that should be subject to these assumptions. Think before you shed your opinion and express your opinion on what you KNOW, not on what you think something MIGHT be. This particular circumstance aside, I see a lot of people who jump to conclusions. Isn't that what we tend to get critical of the media doing in various newsworthy items they report on? At the end of the day, Erny, staffies and staffy crosses, pitbull and pibull x are dog aggressive. NO two ways about this; the only way to resolve this is for shires to implement strict regulations and not allow just any tom, dick or f&&&&ng harry to be able to get hold of such breeds. I love these dogs but they do need a fort knockes (spelling ?) to make sure that noone has to lose their beloved pets at the jaws of such dogs. What ? Speaking in regards to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the breed standard calls for the animal to be totally reliable and a gentleman unless set upon. There are some that are dog aggressive, as there are in most breeds, however there are many Staffords that do not go actively looking for a battle. We have standard suburban fencing, not " fort knockes " as you put it. We make sure that our dogs remain in our yard and when they are out of it, it's on leash unless permitted other wise. Well SBT123, some posters have stipulated that such dogs are escape artists and that they are able to scale high fences. All I meant to say was that shires should ensure that anyone wanting to adopt or purchase such breeds should have adequate fencing and prove to be responsible owners. I don't doubt that you are one of those responsible pet owners but unfortunately alot of others are not as in the case of this tosser! I also believe that not all staffies go actively looking for WW3 but aren't the ones that do not the exception rather than the rule? Staffies and the likes were bred to kill other dogs in the pit, is that not so? Gosh, owning a pack of staffies is an accident waiting to happen and only owners that can ensure that these dogs are not able to jump, dig, escape their way out should be allowed to own them....when at work they should have runs with a concrete floor where they should be able to place their staffies to ensure that nobody has to lose their much loved pets in such a tragic manner.

I am not defending the behaviour of the owner, nor anything else, for that matter. But here it is again .... signs of WHAT aggression? How do you KNOW it was aggression, LouiseBrooks. No-one should be putting labels on these dogs nor of their behaviour if you don't know what behaviour it really was. Whether you like the behaviour or not, it is not something that should be subject to these assumptions. Think before you shed your opinion and express your opinion on what you KNOW, not on what you think something MIGHT be. This particular circumstance aside, I see a lot of people who jump to conclusions. Isn't that what we tend to get critical of the media doing in various newsworthy items they report on? At the end of the day, Erny, staffies and staffy crosses, pitbull and pibull x are dog aggressive. NO two ways about this; the only way to resolve this is for shires to implement strict regulations and not allow just any tom, dick or f&&&&ng harry to be able to get hold of such breeds. I love these dogs but this is one breed of dog that requires a fort knox situation to make sure that noone has to lose their beloved pets at the jaws of such dogs.

That doesn't make the principal point any different to what it is. A cat took one of the birds who frequented my parents' property. We were fond of that bird. Going by the consensus of opinion on how to deal with these issues of an animal encroaching on another's property and killing something that someone is fond of/attached to, that cat should die. It seems. I'm not saying that the dog-owner in this situation should not be heavily penalised. Although I guess it goes to follow then that cat-owners whose cats offend other people likewise should also be heavily penalised (and fair enough, if it makes them keep their cat and the other of my preferred animals safe). I'm not even saying that these dogs should be returned to their owner if the owner is moronic enough to not be responsible and do the right thing. And I agree ..... the dogs wouldn't stand much chance of rehoming so their outcome would likely be a sad one even if they were given that chance. But I am saying that the views that are being expressed here have such general blanket statements behind them and in that respect I very strongly disagree and sometimes think they are no better than the sensationalism that is often created by the newspaper reports that so many criticise them for (myself included). Not to mention the assumption that is also being generalised to support those general blanket statements being that the dogs were DA. They might not have been - it might have been prey drive no different to that of cats. Motor vehicle injury and fatalities exceeds that which is caused by dogs. I don't understand or see your point or relevancy on this, Jed. Probably wasn't one, Erny!! I have a thing about people blithely driving over native animals on the road, when simply slowing down would have avoided a death, and people driving into birds, when the same action would have meant they flew away. How hard is it? I was reminded when the local koala group published stats on injured koalas - more injuries and deaths by cars than anything else. *sigh* Sorry about your wild bird, it's enver nice. I could not agree with you more, Ernie. How true....so many animals dying on the road need not have if not for a little more compassion from the driver. Some people simply do not give a flying sh&t!

So so sorry varicool for what you have had to endure. SO sorry for the loss of your chihuahua, how horribly heartwrenching.

I understand your peception of this SK but at the end of the day such dogs are "dog aggressive" and given that they have more than proven this goes to say that there will be more victims. I thought I would watch the story on ACA online and the pain that is so etched on the face of the owner of the victims tells me that such dogs simply have to go. I know that such pain, no matter how much time passes, never goes away. You feel so helpless, what is one to do? leave one's dog's in the house just in case? man, I am still trying to come to terms with the past.

As would I. But, devils advocate ............. why are people not so horrified when cats roam and kill our birds and other of our wildlife - animals that may well have been encouraged to other people's gardens through the (eg) bird specific friendly trees, flowers and shrubs and so on that we might plant? I do not condone dogs killing swf's, cats and so forth, so please do not think that is what I am about. But I am puzzled that it never hits the news nor even here on DOL do I not here the voices of alarm and horror when it is about a cat's doing. To the contrary, I'm inclined to hear more the "it's what cat's do", yet when it is a dog to (say) a swf or cat (or other animal that might be seen as prey) it is exclamations of . Why is it seen as so much worse/dramatic/shocking? Why aren't people calling for those offending cats to be pts? Well said Erny, it is obvious "birds" and wildlife don't yet have a VOICE.

I have heard on the news the story about three english staffies x pitbull who got out from their property and wandered a fair way from their place (over 500 metres) into the backyard of another pet owner and killed his 4 prized chihuahuas along with his maltese cross pet dog. I was horrified; imagine the anguish that this poor man has had to endure after arriving home and discovering the horror that had taken place. I heard the story in passing therefore am not sure of all the details. Basically, the dogs responsible for the killings are now at the Lost Dogs Home on a ""stay of execution". The owner of these dogs is fighting against having his beloved dogs put down. Footage was shown of the dogs and they look so affectionate and friendly that I hate the notion that they may end up being destroyed but then when I think of what they have done I feel that they brought it on themselves and that they are too big a risk to be given another chance. What do you think? should they or should they not be put down? It's THUMBS DOWN FOR ME.

ADORABLE

SO sorry for what you have had to go through with your dog putting up a fight with the euthanasia, poor little girl. AND as for the vet and nurse trying to keep her mouth shut - gosh I hope their end is not a peaceful one! I already know that this world is made up of alot of uncaring individuals but it still never ceases to disgust me when I read such things.

That isn't correct either. You can have a delayed reaction. My cousin got a dog and her husdand and child were fine for a few months. They then both reacted severly (at different times) and had to go to emergency. Both were fine after the dog was responsibly rehomed. Okay, I do apologise for entering into a discussion that I thought I knew but instead knew nothing about. SORRY.

The least they could do is to pick up after themselves if they couldn't bake it any longer! Gosh, we are expected to pick up after our dogs so why shouldn't such disgusting people pick up after themselves?! Having said that, not all dog owners pick up after their dog anyway, such a repulsive world. Sorry westielover but you cannot be blamed for turning into a "fould mouthed gutter wench"......What better day to start a diet than after reading this thread