Abigail

I can see why you were guarded in disclosing the breed. Good for you for disclosing it ! Not surprised at the outcome. Poor Cavalier! I would have loved to have had a stick in tow and hit that mongrel between the eyes! How many more dogs have to be victimised at the jaws of these animals before certain low lifes learn to take responsibility; I guess there will always be tossers out there who have their heads buried in the sand; shame for the owners that do have common sense. It seems like a never ending spiral because of a few arseholes.

There are plenty of DA little dogs out there, yapping their little heads off and seriously wanting to kill other dogs, but it is rare that these little dogs cause more than an annoyance. Their behaviour is unacceptable to me, yet society does generally accept their DA behaviour. Contrast that with a large dog (of any breed) that has the same attitude. There you have a dog that should be muzzled when out in public, and should be kept in a very secure enclosure when unattended. It is a dog that will kill other people's dogs, because it has the physical capacity and the instinct do do it. Pitbull people need to address this instead of attempting to invalidate people's fears. What are responsible owners of these dogs prepared to concede if they really are committed to keeping their breed going in this country? I have never seen a pitbull as out of control as i have a SWF, even DA dogs don't exhibit aggression to all dogs. Of course we're going to try to invalidate peoples fears especially if they've been formed by mass hysteria. And what is it that we're supposed to concede? we all know they can be DA, anyone who owns any bull breed and doesn't admit so is a fool, big deal, that is why it's more about education and responsible ownership. The are plenty of DA dogs of different breeds and I have thought on many occassions if my GSD's behaved like some of the SWF's I would be battling to physically restrain them But not all DA dogs go for the win at all costs as some bull breed, Pit cross or whatever they are, do to cause horrific injuries as often which is what the general public hears about and taints the breed. People involved with the APBT breed are generally saying that they shouldn't be DA and make too many excuses and what others are saying, is that these sensationalised attacks are not by Labradors or Golden Retrievers, they are 9 times out of 10 a Bull breed of some description. So true, unfortunately BB. Certain people have to face the fact that their beloved choice of breed (namely of the bully variety) is capable of inflicting serious injuries and that they do require more careful restraints.

There are plenty of DA little dogs out there, yapping their little heads off and seriously wanting to kill other dogs, but it is rare that these little dogs cause more than an annoyance. Their behaviour is unacceptable to me, yet society does generally accept their DA behaviour. Contrast that with a large dog (of any breed) that has the same attitude. There you have a dog that should be muzzled when out in public, and should be kept in a very secure enclosure when unattended. It is a dog that will kill other people's dogs, because it has the physical capacity and the instinct do do it. Pitbull people need to address this instead of attempting to invalidate people's fears. What are responsible owners of these dogs prepared to concede if they really are committed to keeping their breed going in this country? Very very well said Greytmate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess it isn't just a case of the dogs being well behaved but also of the children involved Good for you for instilling good manners on those cute kids

You must be pulling our leg , do you think an SWF attack and Rotty attack would result in the potential for an equal level of injury???. I understand where you are coming from, a dog is a dog and all that, but in reality, breed, size and power having and equal level of aggression is the difference between a torn pair of pants and a scratch on the ankle to loosing half your arm or worse. I can't really see the police K9 units swapping from GSD's to SWF's as in your perception provide equal fear/deterrent factor...........lets be realistic good point, I can just imagine a security chihuahua, a pekingnese schutzhund . I wonder why we never see it if the breed doesn't matter. I am constantly amazed as to how defensive certain people are about the disclosure of the breed involved in an attack. I guess it is a case of wanting the breed to remain hidden and then to accuse the media of sensationalism.

You must be pulling our leg , do you think an SWF attack and Rotty attack would result in the potential for an equal level of injury???. I understand where you are coming from, a dog is a dog and all that, but in reality, breed, size and power having and equal level of aggression is the difference between a torn pair of pants and a scratch on the ankle to loosing half your arm or worse. I can't really see the police K9 units swapping from GSD's to SWF's as in your perception provide equal fear/deterrent factor...........lets be realistic Well said Black Bronson! I cannot believe how some people can be so stubborn and refuse the face the facts. F'ck, I was bitten by a shih tzu once, and yes it was a painful bite to the ankle but I know I would rather have suffered that than to be faced with a bigger dog namely a ======. Now, I am trying to visualise the K9 police with a maltese in tow, lol, that would frighten the beegeesas out of any crim! I can just picture that..........the K9 squad rolls up, opens the back of the van and out pops a Maltese on a retractor leash............"STOP or I will deploy the dog" say's the K9 officer..........that's hillarious . The crim would probably be caught falling over and wetting his pants with laughter :cheer: THese are the times when I am thankful I have a strong bladder otherwise I'd be sitting on a puddle right now.

My hubby and I have owned both a dobe and a german shepherd at the same time. We acquired them both as pups, the dobe came 3 years after the german shepherd and developed an incredible closeness to the german shepherd. Both were loving and loyal dogs, the GS had a far superior guarding instinct, the dobe would sooner hide than confront people, the GS would certainly confront and bark at strangers. I found the gs more obedient, the dobe was definitely stubborn with a mind of his own most of the time. My choice would be a GS. Dobes are very affectionate but because I found the gs more obedient then that would make it my preference.

You must be pulling our leg , do you think an SWF attack and Rotty attack would result in the potential for an equal level of injury???. I understand where you are coming from, a dog is a dog and all that, but in reality, breed, size and power having and equal level of aggression is the difference between a torn pair of pants and a scratch on the ankle to loosing half your arm or worse. I can't really see the police K9 units swapping from GSD's to SWF's as in your perception provide equal fear/deterrent factor...........lets be realistic Well said Black Bronson! I cannot believe how some people can be so stubborn and refuse the face the facts. F'ck, I was bitten by a shih tzu once, and yes it was a painful bite to the ankle but I know I would rather have suffered that than to be faced with a bigger dog namely a ======. Now, I am trying to visualise the K9 police with a maltese in tow, lol, that would frighten the beegeesas out of any crim!

This thread is about irresponsible owners and lack of containment of dogs, not about breed bashing. I was asking about the breed of dog as mere curiosity. I guess, given that some people are in the habit of saying that the media only ever potrays stories that consist of bully breeds, I am trying to find out if it is a case of media sensationalism or perhaps if there is truth that some breeds are more DA than others. Just in quest for the truth, not breed bashing. My hubby and I have owned german shepherds, dobes, staffies, american bullies and have looked after friend's rotties so I have nothing against bully breeds although, as I have said before I would never again own a staffy due to their 'high prey drive.' Every other breed has been an absolute pleasure to have.

It is so very frustrating when this sort of thing happens time and time again! People just will never learn! I guess it is a false belief system with some people that their beloved dog would not hurt a fly, yea right! What breed of dog is the attacking dog?

Human error? please spare me, how many errors does any one person have to commit? and it takes another week to realise that the dog is missing yet again? human error, pfft!

Cordelia, yes it is entirely possible that perhaps the owner may be in hospital or had the dog in someone else's care, etc etc but this is a case of it happening again and quite obviously the owner was not in hospital the 1st time around; if she is travelling has she not heard of boarding kennels in order to ensure that her dog doesn't run away yet again; sounds like a nonchalant attitude to me. You would think that if the dog had escaped that this wonderful lady (not) would have attempted to contact the shelter in order to get her dog back by now.

The only reason people are still replying is in the hope of providing some education, and maybe countering the very pro BSL sentiments expressed here, for the sake of those reading who do not post - and for the sake of the dogs, of course. Jed I understand completely that many are fighting for the breed and rightly so, but to reply to some of those comments is giving those ridiculous comments substance and that poster clearly has no substance, knowledge or understanding. I have no substance, hey? well, I and those who know me know differently. Jed has been very patient and educational and for that I am thankful and, in fact, I have absorbed quite a bit of what has been said here. Just because my opinion differed to yours does not make me unsubstantial, lack understanding, etc etc. The way I look at it - well, it is a free world and you are more than entitled to your opinion, no skin off my nose.

Such a disposable society we live in. Heartless individuals that treat a dog like toilet paper.

Abigail your use of this language suggests that you may be anthropomorphising these dogs, they are dogs acting on instinct they aren't making a concious decision to murder much loved pets, it's important to recognise the difference because protracted consequences mean nothing to dogs they don't think the same way humans do. I agree WnH, total anthropomorphising going on here! My dog has killed possums and bats that have come into our yard over the years, some of the possums are probably bigger than a little chi, it does not make him a "murderer" or mean that he has consciously decided to murder another creature and should "pay the consequences". It's prey drive, simple instinct, it does not make him a bad dog. You really should not be taking me literally. I am not stipulating that dogs actually plan a rampage; of course they act on instinct but to have the innate instinct to want to kill does indeed make them a bad dog and when that entails someone else's beloved pet - well that's a no no. And I understand that they are fueled by their prey drive and that is what presents a problem in the very 1st place.

I do believe in trialling staffords. Does that imply individuals doing this in a park or when a group of staffy owners get together and carrying out trials?

Never going to happen. Labs don't have a genetic predisposition for fighting with or killing other dogs. Fact is (and one of the reasons BSL debates are often unrealistic) is the often blatant refusal by the ABPT's staunch supporters to accept or acknowledge what they were bred for and what they still have a predisposition to do if not raised very carefully. For the most part.. the amount of socialising a Lab needs to remain dog friendly is vastly different to the work needed to establish and maintain a dog friendly ABPT (and yes, I know there are dog friendly ABPT out there... but it isn't the 'norm' for them to be accepting of most other dogs off the bat). Labs are bred for their amiable nature... and always have been. (yep, there are some not very nice ones out there.. but it is quite uncommon to find one inherently dog aggressive). WELL SAID

No, Aussie3, I don't consider myself a dog god, just a mere mortal. Just wondering how your staffy would react if it approached a swf dog that growled at him and does not want to be bothered? this is a genuine question as I tend to fear the worst in these situations and this does not apply only to staffies but to certain other breeds too.

Stick to goldfish? Ignoramus? whatever. I have had dogs all my life and will continue to do so.

Ditto. So sad!

i dont agree. once the legislators get their hands on anything we have little chance of it making sense or staying true to the original intent. I agree! Things can get out of hand. Ideally it sounds great, it would eradicate the number of poor animals that are put down due to overbreeding but I wouldn't want australia to resemble Russia more and more every day. It wouldn't eradicate the numbers put down because of over breeding because if you stop more accidental litters then large scale puppy farmers breed more to fill the demand. No one has a hard time getting puppies sold and some rescue even specialize in taking pregnant dogs because they know they can find homes for the pups. Pups are rarely dumped and if they are they find homes dogs are dumped. Introduce mandatory desexing and all that will happen is that more desexed dogs will be dumped not that less dogs over all will be dumped bacause the demand is still the same. If the demand is the same then why are so many pups and kittens destroyed? Puppy farming should become extinct as they breed large scale and keep them in shocking conditions. I dont agree in mandatory desexing though.

Total, unmitigated crap. You have no idea. Rather than coming here and sprouting rubbish like this, which most of us know is totally wrong, please go away and do some serious research. The damage which any dog of any size is comparable. You need to go and research this. Are you aware that St. Bernards have killed more people in the USA than Dobermanns? No, you aren't. If you want to continue to take part in discussions like this, please bring some facts with you. toy dog I agree with you on "which dog did the killing." They obviously acted as a pack. They may not even have been dog aggressive, it may have been pack behaviour. And I do think all three should have been euthanased. Dogs which will jump/crawl through/break a fence to attack other dogs need to have something done about them. Responsible people have fences which contain their dogs. It's sad that the dogs suffer for the acts of humans, but at least one of these dogs has proven he WILL kill another dog. He should not be allowed to do it again. Tough on the dogs but a hell of a lot tougher on the poor little chihuahuas which were minding their own business, on their own property, harming no one, and were killed in the most horrible and terrifying way possible. Something they certainly didn't deserve. Nor did the poor owners, who will probably grieve for years. Dog agression doesn't equate to human agression. On the other hand, dogs which form a pack and attack may well decide to attack a child, or a human. Who knows? It has happened though. Jed, the dogs should be made to pay the consequences and I dont feel sorry for them; they took it upon themselves to kill irrespective of the owner which happens to be a tosser and a loser. To say that I am appalled and disgusted that this pr'ck of a human being has been allowed to obtain another dog and then have those killers returned, what f%ckw't allowed for this deserves a taste of the pudding!

Abigail QUOTE Yes, it is true that any breed of dog can be DA but lets be realistic here - the damage inflicted by a golden retriever versus a staffy or pitbull, well the way a staffy or pitbull latch on no golden retriever ever could, the damage inflicted by a staffy or pitbull is way more severe, I know as I have been in such situations. And to those who insist that it is all to do with the way the dog is raised = cobwash! Total, unmitigated crap. You have no idea. Rather than coming here and sprouting rubbish like this, which most of us know is totally wrong, please go away and do some serious research. The damage which any dog of any size is comparable. You need to go and research this. Jed. I have every idea, Jed. I owned a couple of staffies over the years and will never own another. I do agree, as I have said ample times that there is not one breed of dog that would not attack another dog but via personal experience and via working with a vet, I know first hand the damage inflicted by staffies. I am talking about one on one, not a pack. If one staffy set out to attack another dog in comparison, say, a golden retriever set out to attack another dog, well the dog that was attacked by the staffy would suffer greater damage. The tenacity of the breed is incomparable. I am not putting other breeds on a pedestal here.

i dont agree. once the legislators get their hands on anything we have little chance of it making sense or staying true to the original intent. I agree! Things can get out of hand. Ideally it sounds great, it would eradicate the number of poor animals that are put down due to overbreeding but I wouldn't want australia to resemble Russia more and more every day.