Black Bronson

We have taken our dogs to work with us for years and have a run behind our workshop. Our puppy and 3 year old come to work. Our 8 year old after my elderly mum moving in with us stayed home and made mum feel safe with him on duty and mum on her own, but strangely our older boy isn't interested in coming to work anymore............because he gets pats, cuddles and treats all day off mum, staying home for him was the better deal

I just did the same Jaxx I remember there were some GSD lines a few years ago that were producing an odd genetic undescending testicle that had to be desexed without question for health benefits which makes sense.

You are correct Wazzat. What are your thoughts on testicular cancer in dog's, have you experienced it???.

To add to that bedazzled, once a male is sporting trained, well controlled and obedient by 18 months to 2 years old and entire, apart from an accidental mating, desexing IMO is no longer a behavioural factor of benefit at all once sporting obedience is established. BB what do you think of the school of thought that it reduces/eliminates the risk of testicular cancer I have never had any of mine suffer from testicular cancer over 7 entire males or personally know anyone who's dog has suffered, but it does occur and desexing will eliminate that risk. I would ultimately like to know how often testicular cancer does occur to assess the risk properly. I have a feeling that testicular cancer is more rare than common, but it would be better to know the facts.

Small/medium dogs are believed to mature earlier than large dogs and apparantly doesn't impact as dramatically desexing at 6 months. Desexing does eliminate the risk of testiclular cancer in the male dog, but I don't know how risky testicular cancer is likely to occur. I guess a mastectomy would reduce the risk of breast cancer......but where is the line

To add to that bedazzled, once a male is sporting trained, well controlled and obedient by 18 months to 2 years old and entire, apart from an accidental mating, desexing IMO is no longer a behavioural factor of benefit at all once sporting obedience is established.

This is how I feel.. But then why does a vet say 6 months. its confusing!!!! Because they don't look outside the square and most would never research anything in that nature beyond what they were taught at vet school. Ask for a vasectomy and see how cleaver your vet is BB did you mean cleaver! I have coffee everywhere YOU made my night very clever! lol a vasectomy with a cleaver! lol Its like the scrotum and the sternum always muddled them up too! I guess you could use a cleaver

Correct Freunhund, I agree I really wonder about vets sometimes with their desexing advise amongst other things . I take my GSD puppy to the vets after collecting him from the breeders for a check up. Firstly, "what's he crossed with, Kelpie" asks the vet. No he's a pedigree papered GSD. "He's crossed with something says the vet because he is pure black". No he's a working line GSD, explained about working lines and their different colourings etc etc, and that we had waited along time for this litter to train as a sporting dog and mentioned that he wasn't cheap either In the next breath, the vet says, "so you will be desexing him at 6 months???" Seriously, who in their right mind would desex a sporting/working puppy specifically bred for working potential and purchased for dog sport at 6 months???

Personally, I don't desex male dogs, never have and never will as I believe it's a pointless exercise and is more detrimental to the dog's health than a benefit. Humping, marking, aggression and jumping 6 foot fences to find bitches in season etc, and all the terrible behavioural issues supposedly associated with entire males is absolute bulldust. Perhaps in the days gone by when dogs were allowed to roam the streets at will without ever being trained may have contributed to these supposed entire traits surfacing, but for an obedience trained family pet that is looked after responsibly, entire or desexed doesn't make any difference. I much prefer the idea of a vastectomy for the comfort factor of not contributing to the possibility of random accidental litters.

This is how I feel.. But then why does a vet say 6 months. its confusing!!!! Because they don't look outside the square and most would never research anything in that nature beyond what they were taught at vet school. Ask for a vasectomy and see how cleaver your vet is

What are your plans for the dog Ant???, are you looking to trial or just working on general obedience???

They would have to change the QLD legislation officially to include the Amstaff on BSL. It doesn't matter what a court said, there has to be a legislation breach to impound anyones dog. At the moment, they can place restrictions upon breeds listed under the Customs Act and the Amstaff isn't Customs listed. They would either have to ammend the definition referring to the Customs Act or add the Amstaff to the Customs Act to restrict importation of the breed.

Ultimately, a court decision is based on the evidence provided on the day and a ruling that an APBT & Amstaff are the same breed determined from that evidence provided doesn't make it fact and needs to be challenged.

It's like the choker, some owners don't like them............ok, if the dog in the opinion of the trainer is best trained with the use of the choker (check chain), the trainers job is to educate and convince the owner why the choker should be used for their dog, and re-educate them as to why. I wouldn't respect a trainer that just said, "we won't use a choker then", because at the end of the day when the re-training fails with use of inadequate tools, the owner will slag the trainer off anyway when the dog's behaviour isn't corrected. As a trainer, if you have to compromise the dog's rehabilitation to suit the owner's desires of what methods and tools should be used..............is the job really worth doing in that case???.

That's how the people think who PTS when there perceived humane training systems fail. You wouldn't find too many police K9's that haven't had a choke out or two just for the record

Cosmolo, that's where I disagree...........it's about the dog first and foremost not the whole picture as the priority and is the reason I prefer "old school" trainers who have the experience and ability to make dog owners do as they are told. I know some owners have certain things they like and dislike, but a good trainer when someone prefers not to use a check chain for example is to educate the owner and convince them that the check chain is the best tool for the application and NOT recommend a Halti as a consolation to suit the owners misunderstandings which happens too often. Training is more about teaching owners how to train their dog with the most appropriate tools and methods for the application as you are no doubt well aware. A dog owner hires a trainer because they don't have the expertise to train the dog themselves, and the trainers job is to provide the education required that is best suitable to reshape the dog's behaviour. It's not about formulating a compromised system to suit an owner who are unwilling to apply the required techniques, if they know how it should be done, why hire a trainer in the first place

It's obviously appropriate enough to assume what the trainer has done to date isn't working otherwise the OP would have no reason to post about it.............would she???. It's obvious the trainer is a friend of yours Huski..........how about separating friendship and training ability and you may just see a different perspective of the situation Oh please, it's behaviour that has only just started showing itself again, the OP had yet to contact the trainer for advice when she posted this thread and wasn't asking for advice on the behaviour specifically but wondering how desexing would assist with it. She's said more than once that she's happy with the trainer. This isn't about friendship, but the fact that apart from the OP I am the only other person in this thread who has the first idea about the competency of the trainer. How you could possibly have vaguest idea on the knowledge or expertise of the trainer from tiny information the OP has given us is beyond me. You've made many incorrect assumptions in this thread already BB, give up before you continue to make yourself look like even more of a condescending idiot Huski, behaviours that resurface do so because the appropriate behaviour isn't conditioned properly, or the unwanted behaviour hasn't been dealt with appropriately and the dog is confused where the boundaries are. It's either innapropriate training or the owner/handler failing to carry out the trainers instructions correctly. Bottom line is, it's not the fault of the dog. You may believe that the training process of this dog is correct............I believe it's incorrect and could be handled more effectively using alternative methods. If the next step towards correcting the behaviour is desexing prior to corrections, E collars and aversives being administered which I believe is the better approach for this behaviour, I seriously question the trainer's competence I am sorry to say. If the OP is happy with her trainer and the way things are progressing with the dog's rehabilitation as I mentioned previously, she wouldn't be posting about it. Maybe I am an idiot thinking that only unhappy dog owners post about behavioural issues they havn't fixed

This is probably not helpful, but I must share it As a kid, we had a Cocker Spaniel who came in the lounge room one night and cocked his leg on mum's chair. My father saw him just as he lifted his leg, jumped of his chair and booted the Cocker up the bum and yelled, "you don't pee in here you dirty bugger" I must say, that was the first and last time it happened

A squeeky toy is good value.............the puppy can entertain it's self at 3am with it Squeeky toys out of the crate at bedtime

If the older dog doesn't live with you, I personally wouldn't worry about teaching them to interact and just keep the puppy away from the older one. It's too hard to condition someone else's dog that isn't living with you, especially if what you teach isn't being upheld consistantly by the dog's owner

Phew!!!, that's good news

It's obviously appropriate enough to assume what the trainer has done to date isn't working otherwise the OP would have no reason to post about it.............would she???. It's obvious the trainer is a friend of yours Huski..........how about separating friendship and training ability and you may just see a different perspective of the situation I think that's maybe a bit of an over assumption. Again, I get where you're coming from because you would think if they're getting help, there'd be no need to ask a question. But I think you're forgetting that the original question was based around desexing, whether that aspect could be the cause of the behaviour, not that they were requesting help for the behaviour. So to give my opinion to the OP's original post, I agree with what the majority have said in that desexing will not magically stop the behaviour, BUT, removing testosterone from the equation may make him an easier dog to train, with more focus going on you. I find that once entire dogs are desexed, their general behaviour, whilst still may remain the same, has just been stepped down a notch - ie its not so full on, which can help you to get control and work with them easier than you would if you were dealing with the raging hormones as well. Some do however, get a bit carried away with the magical improvement perspective of desexing. I recall a trainer a few years ago who would "demand" a male be desexed before she would even look at any behavioural aspect which I thought was a bit left of centre There were a couple of fear aggressive GSD's I have come across in the past that were desexed to improve their behaviour which effectively made them worse. They were predictably stranger aggressive, hated everyone and after desexing became unpredictable. They would accept some strangers giving the impression they were calmer and more relaxed, then out of the blue the dog's would fire up suddenly at someone who had been in their company for the last hour. I think the testosterone in these dogs provided more stability in their fear response, than the post desexing behaviour

I can so define with what you are saying BB. I do so hope that that poor dog is still alive and ends up in the hands of responsible and loving people. Yes, he looks like a lovely boy

It's obviously appropriate enough to assume what the trainer has done to date isn't working otherwise the OP would have no reason to post about it.............would she???. It's obvious the trainer is a friend of yours Huski..........how about separating friendship and training ability and you may just see a different perspective of the situation

To be honest Stef, I would be more concerned about the Amstaff that you turned into the pound..........you didn't know the possible consequences of anything Pit Bully when the rangers get hold of them