Black Bronson

That's good news Serket, she sounds like she is coming good. The marrow bone effecting the pancreas is a condition we had years ago that took 3 different vets to diagnose. He would get sick with similar symptoms as your girl, come good then he'd get another marrow bone and get sick again An older experienced vet diagnosed his condition immediately we mentioned marrow bones, the other 2 vets didn't have a clue. Obviously your girl hasn't had marrow bones, but gastric illness and droopiness is very worrying, I know how you must have been feeling Hope your boy was ok in the end with no lasting effects, I'd be beside myself if this was a regular occurrence - I was on the phone to OH every 2 minutes saying "don't forget to tell the vets this and that" because you never know what pieces of the puzzle they'll put together that you might not have connected (well, ideally, anyway). Lucky you finally found a vet who made the connection. Breakfast hasn't made an appearance out either end, so good and bad, but she's still bright(er) and happy, playing and wagging her tail, very much improved from yesterday, but I'm not sure about giving her dinner until I see results from Breakfast He was about 10/11 months old and a Golden Retriever who lived to nearly 16 years old, he was fine after we stopped marrow bones and never had a pancreas attack after that. It probably helped his life as we kept the fat content down in his meals and he never became overweight although being a food driven pig as many Golden's can be The vet who diagnosed it, gave him a shot of Pethedine for the pain, put him on a drip overnight with an anti-vomiting medication then did the chicken and rice routine for a few days. He had 4 or 5 attacks over a couple of months and the last time he was really droopy and hiding behind the lounge, he wasn't well. We went to a another vet open Sunday afternoon and thankfully were met by a vet with some grey hair that knew his stuff and the effect of marrow bones in some dogs. The other 2 vets had him on an antacid like Mylanta to squirt into his mouth which wasn't helping. Surprisingly when telling our vets what the problem was, they had never heard of marrow bones causing pancreatic problems???. Hope your girl is on the mend

That's good news Serket, she sounds like she is coming good. The marrow bone effecting the pancreas is a condition we had years ago that took 3 different vets to diagnose. He would get sick with similar symptoms as your girl, come good then he'd get another marrow bone and get sick again An older experienced vet diagnosed his condition immediately we mentioned marrow bones, the other 2 vets didn't have a clue. Obviously your girl hasn't had marrow bones, but gastric illness and droopiness is very worrying, I know how you must have been feeling

I was thinking the same thing on the GSD thread the other day Erny. 4 pages of the same pics to read the next reply

Would you have let Archie "bound" up to a bigger dog that was growling back at him? There are a million and one threads here about people going to off-leash parks and other dogs running up into their dogs faces while the owner says "Oh but he's friendly". Those threads never end well, regardless of the dog's intentions. Unfortunately he does do this sometimes, he almost aways runs away / backs off when he gets growled at (including littlies). The small one was in his mum's arms by the time archie actually reached him. Although Archie is friendly and means no harm, that behaviour with the wrong dog could easily cause him some nasty injuries. I saw a Belgian Malinios nail a Staffy once like this at the beach, the Mal was on leash and the Staffy off leash, but things happen fast and the Staffy ended up with some deep neck wounds that required stitching up at the vets. Not all dogs will see a bounding playful dog approaching as fun and some can attack in those situations. To be honest, I wouldn't let Archie do that for his own safety with strange dogs, as you never know how someone else's dog may react.

I have done Melbourne to Adelaide several times with no problems at all. Every couple of hours I stop and let them out of the crate for a leg stretch and wee. I don't feed mine and only give a little to drink as some get car sick and throw up on a full stomach over that distance. Mine usually sleep and wake up when the car stops

She sounds a bit droopy for my liking and could be in pain as they hide it well. If she is no better in the morning, I would take her back to the vets and specifically ask what other more positive options you have to diagnose her condition instead of the "see how she goes" routine. Pancreasitis has similar symptoms often caused by the fat content in marrow bones???. Hope she is feeling better soon

What purpose would you suggest a male with a vasectomy be desexed at 12 months

I am also in WA and could do with some assistance in training an extremely headstrong 9mth GSD - have already trained with 2 independent trainers but am no further ahead so could you please let me know who you went through? With GSD's, I think you are always better off with trainers who know the breed well, especially K9 experienced with working dogs, police or security dog backgrounds more so than the general purely positive trainers.

I have been hesitant to enter this discussion...but now I have an ally , I will. I agree that I could never offer my dogs something more exciting than what they are after. I guess I use negative reinforcement as well (although have used positives too). I start the first time they ever ignore my call. I just simply go & get them grab their collar & pull them a little toward me, then let go & let them choose to follow, if they don't I repeat the process, and again & again, until they believe they have no choice. They learn early that they never have the option of not coming as I will go get them. Shine probably has the best recall I have ever had in a dog (so far it is 100% but I could not possibly test it against everything). She was taught to recall off sheep before she ever worked & she has never not responded to my "that'll do" command. She has recalled off dogs, people, flying ducks, cattle & just last week 3 very speedy kangaroos. I whistle & generally my dogs will about-turn in full stride on hearing the whistle. I very rarely reward them for coming back, but may give verbal praise sometimes. I have always felt that having a recall based purely on reward makes it optional for the dog. Flame me too . I totally agree, in fact, one of mine has an excellent recall in drive when working, but during a casual off leash stroll, his recall was slow, "when I have finished sniffing" attitude. After weeks of trying to condition the dog with positive reinforcement, we tried an E collar and did that get him moving That was a couple of years ago and since an afternoon with the E collar, his distance recall is great. The dog IMO needs to learn that there are negatives to misbehaviour.

I have been hesitant to enter this discussion...but now I have an ally , I will. I agree that I could never offer my dogs something more exciting than what they are after. I guess I use negative reinforcement as well (although have used positives too). I start the first time they ever ignore my call. I just simply go & get them grab their collar & pull them a little toward me, then let go & let them choose to follow, if they don't I repeat the process, and again & again, until they believe they have no choice. They learn early that they never have the option of not coming as I will go get them. Shine probably has the best recall I have ever had in a dog (so far it is 100% but I could not possibly test it against everything). She was taught to recall off sheep before she ever worked & she has never not responded to my "that'll do" command. She has recalled off dogs, people, flying ducks, cattle & just last week 3 very speedy kangaroos. I whistle & generally my dogs will about-turn in full stride on hearing the whistle. I very rarely reward them for coming back, but may give verbal praise sometimes. I have always felt that having a recall based purely on reward makes it optional for the dog. Flame me too . I totally agree, in fact, one of mine has an excellent recall in drive when working, but during a casual off leash stroll, his recall was slow, "when I have finished sniffing" attitude. After weeks of trying to condition the dog with positive reinforcement, we tried an E collar and did that get him moving That was a couple of years ago and since an afternoon with the E collar, his distance recall is great. The dog IMO needs to learn that there are negatives to misbehaviour.

Kwint is a good dog, but it depends upon the traits that Kwint brings to the table and the traits of the bitch concerned. The breeding error is to assume that Kwint will produce great progeny with any bitch which is not necessarily the case. There are some other good dogs like Jimmy, Fellow, Ray, Karlos, Vimo, Scooby Doo etc that could produce better progeny than Kwint depending on the bitch, bearing in mind the bitch line has 50% input into the result. My point is the mentality that Kwint must be the best dog for my bitch because he won the show happens too often and very obviously in the past. They bashed Cayos, Gigolo etc in the same fashion and not always for the right reasons. As an example, Fellow for instance can produce very stable temperaments which could be the best sire for a bitch having a slight fearful trait, where the wrong sire could amplify a fearful trait and produce fear biters which are plentiful in showline progeny. Other aspects in relation to the breed standard need to be taken into account other than conformation to maintain breed quality. Conformation IMO shouldn't be taken above all else in breeding programs to the extent that it happens. Conformation only doesn't provide a good example of the breed unless the other required traits are present also.

Excellent job Jettyjet People who haven't handled aggressive dogs don't realise what a huge achievement is felt when overcoming the situation, great to hear

name='Serket' date='7th May 2010 - 12:24 AM' post='4514283'] If all males were desexed, females wouldn't need to be, I don't understand your argument. Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO. I agree with you about the temperament changes and season, it's a tough time I think the post is about desexing to reduce unwanted pups though and males are equally responsible for this This really depends on the dog - and why is always females who are considered to be the problem? Not to go anthropomorphising but seriously, I barely noticed when my GR came into season, and we have cream carpet throughout the house and she has free access inside/outside. She's not desexed yet because she's not finishing growing, and her breeder is completely supportive of waiting to desex. I want to do agility with her, and even if I didn't, from what I've read I believe it is better for her to finish growing in any case, and I'm responsible and educated enough to keep her safe when she's in season. I can also cope with the dreaded "mess", even if she wasn't as clean as she is. Perhaps it does depend on the individual dog, but the possibility of issues with entire females in season is high. Unless intending to breed, I personally would prefer to desex and eliminate seasonal cycles and not have to worry about it with a pet. Having said that, I prefer a male anyway then I don't need to worry about any of that

Head collars are more a suppression tool for poor leash behaviour.............they are not a training tool as such. Dogs pull and misbehave on leash from a lack of training process applied by the handler. I prefer a proper training technique employed to teach a dog leash behaviour, not a gadget that works only when worn which is generally the case with head collars and harnesses. A cronic leash puller is generally strong enough to handle a few good corrections on a choker with a loose leash walk achieved in less than 30 minutes in most cases.

Freundhund, that may be the case what you have told us, but the breed quality is suffering on the basis of policy and politics which is wrong and something we need to rise above. Unless we are working and testing dogs genetic working ability, the working traits of the GSD will disappear and result in destruction of the breed whilst everything is based on conformation results only as it is now. How many stud bookings has Kwint got since his Nationals win???. Kwint may not be the best sire for every bitch, but they will use him as they all did with Cayos. It's not about working lines versus showlines, it's about the GSD as a whole, and I really don't see too much genetic fore thought going into many showline breedings other than who won the last show. That's understandable in a system where working ability isn't part of the criteria because without working experienced breeders, they wouldn't know what they are looking for to maintain overall breed integrity. Until champion dogs are rated upon overall correctness and not soley upon conformation, things can can only go backwards from here with only limited breed improvements if any. For the record, the show folk don't like my black dog either , the division between the lines I agree isn't helpful.

If all males were desexed, females wouldn't need to be, I don't understand your argument. Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO.

I think it's of benefit to desex female pets, eliminates seasons and pregnancies, but I don't think desexing a male provides much benefit. Personally I would go for a vasectomy if I had to sterilise a male.

I like the German SV system Pockets and believe it should be implemented in Australia to preserve the breed's overall integrity. Conformation is only one part of the breed standard which makes up well bred GSD, but in our Australian system, conformation is the "be all and end all" which shouldn't be the case given that the GSD is a "working dog". To make matters worse, too many GSD's are bred on the basis of conformation show potential with little regard to the other aspects of the breed standard which are equally important, probably more so if working a GSD is the desire. The problem with rating a GSD's correctness by conformation only, results in a misconseption of what a champion dog really is. One would expect that aquiring a puppy from a champion parentage litter should provide a dog capable of a working role which is not often the case. Too often the champions based primarily on conformation have major temperament faults and genetic weaknesses that under SV rule would never qualify to be shown or bred, where dogs of this nature in our system slip through the net and are reproduced. With our system, there is no way of controlling the overall correctness of the GSD and maintaining the breeds integrity which is my point. Any dogs regarded as champions, should first and foremost have the genetics to pass a workablity test, and if not, should not be titled as a champion dog. A working dog lacking the genetics to work regardless of conformation excellence, is a poor example of the breed that should never be reproduced IMO.

Not operating under German rule is nothing to be proud of, as the detriment of doing so produces poor quality dogs. The Australian system provides no quality control of maintaining the working genetics of a working dog and therefore provides the foundation not to improve the breed but to make it worse.

...and again, in YOUR opinion No, it's not my opinion, it's the opinion of the German SV which I agree. The SV which evolved from the breed's creators have a whole lot more experience in the requirements of breeding to the standards than we do in Australia.

A champion dog should meet the full criteria and more importantly given that the breed is a working dog, great conformation in a dog lacking the genetics to work is no champion GSD and should never be rated as such.

My point is, the integrity of the breed in Australia is not in good hands after all

A GSD show according to the German SV regulations is a conformation display of working dogs. In order to qualify into a show, the dog has to gain a working title to confirm it's compliance with the breed standard's working quality. Untitled dogs regardless of conformation excellence cannot be shown or bred. Obviously a GSD that possess limited working ability cannot be regarded as good example of the breed, and the reproduction of inferior traits will naturally reduce the future quality of the breed. An example in Open Dog is the 25th place of Enzor vom Tamaraspitze SchH2 who has passed the required workability testing with the appropriate titles to qualify for showing and breeding. This dog should never be beaten by untitled dogs that may have no confirmed working ability whatsoever or possibly unsound in temperament. Although working titles are not a show or breeding requirement in Australia, it is the rules of the breed for maintaining breed quality which IMO should be taken into account first and foremost. Too many poor quality GSD's are bred on the basis of show results from parents incapable of gaining working titles which ultimately should never have been used for reproduction.

I can't see how the breed is in good hands when working titled dogs are beaten by non titled dogs in a working dog class

Well done Pockets