Black Bronson

Why is it a lesser possibilty that would happen? does anyone read other people posts and take it on board? Firstly having a dog running around the street probably means it's not been well trained or looked after, which leads to all the other factors, unsocialised, not desexed, the development of DA etc... that's what makes a dog rush and dominate other dogs. What I am saying is that Bull breeds are not the only breeds allowed to run around by irresponsible owners and are not looked after properly, but do we see the same amount of attacks by other breeds in the same position??? No as they're not publicised as much. Bull breeds covers so many breeds, then there's all the cross breeds etc.. so it's way to broad to generalise, but as for percentages i don't believe they're any more likely to be aggressive than any other, i live in an area full of dogs that are always off lead and outside their property and get rushed nearly every walk and not one of them is a bull breed of any sort, in fact the most common occurence in my experience is with cattle dogs and their crosses. Though a beautiful rednose pit did jump off his ute and come running up for cuddles. Yes, I have experienced quite a few loose cattle dogs rushing at us with borderline aggressive behaviour. I have never encounted aggression personally with any Bull breeds or APBT's either.

We know it's owners fault not the dog or breed, but irresponsible ownership is not reserved for only Bull breed owners. There are stacks of irresponsible owners of other breeds that shoot out the gate and run around the street but don't appear to attack and bite as often as Bull breeds seem to Had the dog who attacked the Cav been a Golden Retriever for instance, the likelyhood of a GR mounting an attack I am sure would be a lesser possibility perhaps???. Rubbish, if the breed that had come out the gate and attacked the Cav hadn't been a Bull Breed the lynch mob wouldn't have saddled up and made an issue about the incident. Statistics are not worth the paper they are written on as they are always biassed one way or the other. A poster previously in this thread doubted the validity of a study/statistic by saying it was "Pro-Pitbull therefor inaccurate". I think a lot of attacks(not the one on this thread) are blamed on Bull Breeds due to mis identification by the general public, they have been forcefed images of violent Bull Breeds by the media and immediatly jump to the conclusion. As for Golden Retievers, I was chased down the road by a GR once as I walked my Whippet, it was quite frightening as he was hell bent on getting us to throw his tennis ball, all very cute and harmless but he was still a dog wandering off his property Big difference with a menacing dog annoying you in a friendly manner, than a DA dog that wants to attack and bite???

Why is it a lesser possibilty that would happen? does anyone read other people posts and take it on board? Firstly having a dog running around the street probably means it's not been well trained or looked after, which leads to all the other factors, unsocialised, not desexed, the development of DA etc... that's what makes a dog rush and dominate other dogs. What I am saying is that Bull breeds are not the only breeds allowed to run around by irresponsible owners and are not looked after properly, but do we see the same amount of attacks by other breeds in the same position???

Perhaps working dogs have a more natural handler responsiveness than others, but I totally agree with Nekhbet's advice. Training my 11 week old puppy at the moment, we have a great sit, drop a nice little focused heel and recall as far as 11 week old's go motivated with a command, release word and play as the reward, no food and me as the toy. It's about creating a bond with the puppy I believe is the greatest motivator. We are a huge toy for a puppy, we have a voice of varing pitches and dynamics, hands, feet and body language to raise a puppy's excitement level to work for you. We will use some food at some stage I am sure, and will definitely use toys, (bite sleeve one day), but you can definitely motivate a puppy very successfully with praise, affection, funny body language and voice. The pic is a sit awaiting a release word to play at 8 weeks old

We know it's owners fault not the dog or breed, but irresponsible ownership is not reserved for only Bull breed owners. There are stacks of irresponsible owners of other breeds that shoot out the gate and run around the street but don't appear to attack and bite as often as Bull breeds seem to Had the dog who attacked the Cav been a Golden Retriever for instance, the likelyhood of a GR mounting an attack I am sure would be a lesser possibility perhaps???.

Wouldn't it be fair to pay more for a show quality puppy on main register than a pet on limited???

Using the German Shepherd as a working dog example, two lines exist within the breed, show and working lines. Show lines are bred with conformation as the priority and working lines are bred for working ability. Although working line GSD's comply with the breed standards more closely than show lines as a whole. Few working lines have the conformation correctness to win shows and few show lines have the ability to work as successfully as a working line.

Bettering the breed, depending on the breed isn't always about winning conformation. It can also be about dogs that perform really well at what they are meant to do. Is a border collie who has who would rather kill sheep than herd them a good example of his breed even if his conformation is good? I have a dog that would never win at conformation, mainly on his colour and markings, his coat and his prick ears (I didn't tape them ) but his colour etc are still within standard just not fashionable. I recieve a enquiries about him because he will put the working ability back. Correct

That depends on the breed, but the above procedure doesn't work particularly well for working breeds.

Some vets are money grabbing ars*%$es that don't provide a proper service in the first place. Some of the larger one's have about 12 vets but can't manage to roster one on after hours It's not always possible for an animal to organise illness or injury during office hours???. Some of the vet attitudes are extemely poor and in the OP's emergency the procedure was a disgrace. Sorry to hear about your daughters loss

So I guess you like GSD's then? Oh yes, I would love one of each variation

I like that Miss B very nice We had a VY SS ute back in '04 and my wife wanted a sedan and traded it in for a VZ SS sedan. With 2 GSD's the rear door trims are completely destroyed She said only yesterday now having 3 GSD's, one's a puppy, if we still had the ute, we could have put a canopy on the back like yours and it would have been perfect now

My father's training tool of choice was the rolled up newspaper. He used to teach the "shut up and p*ss off" command with it, and when the rolled up newspaper came out, there would be dogs skidding all over the lino to take cover I wonder if that contributed to our old dog wanting to bite the paper boy???. He hated the paper boy more than the postman I remember

Lets see, 1. German Shepherd (black) 2. German Shepherd (black & tan) 3. German Shepherd (bi -colour) 4. German Shepherd (sable) 5. German Shepherd (long coat) 6. German Shepherd (white) 7. Belgian Malinios 8. Dutch Shepherd 9. Rottweiler 10. Doberman

Jed, there are Bull breeds hanging out of the trees, massive amounts of Staffy breeders along with the BYB's cross breeds etc etc, but I haven't really ever noticed DA in good Staffy a well bred Stafford with thought out genetics or an APBT from an experienced breeder. The DA Staffies I know of thinking about it, are all BYB, petshop type deals or crosses???. Is an influx of crap dogs perhaps contributing to the Bull breed aggression???.

A lack of socialisation can contribute to a dog being DA along with an illness and a bad experience, but many cases that breeders usually deny is genetic. Specialised training can help improve a genetically DA dog, but you can't trust them. My nanna had a nice Labrador years ago that had never been on a leash or seen another dog since it's mother and litter mates and was 2 years old at the time it was walked and trained. She wasn't the slightest bit DA, loved people and other dogs, but DA is not a common Labrador trait. Perhaps another breed, things may have been different.

Poor little Cav. A couple of times over the years we have set up a charging DA dog with a security patrol dog and funnily enough on both occassions the charging dog put the brakes on and didn't attack Did it not attack knowing that it was going to get a flogging if it tried, could perhaps it sense that the patrol dog was good for a fight and wouldn't surrender to bullying tactics or the patrol dog was too big and meaningful and the charging dog re-evaluted it's decision???. These dog's generally attacked smaller defenceless dogs but seemed to know they had met their match???. I am thinking perhaps does dog aggression apply when the DA dog is confident that the other dog is unlikely to defend it's self???

You must be pulling our leg , do you think an SWF attack and Rotty attack would result in the potential for an equal level of injury???. I understand where you are coming from, a dog is a dog and all that, but in reality, breed, size and power having and equal level of aggression is the difference between a torn pair of pants and a scratch on the ankle to loosing half your arm or worse. I can't really see the police K9 units swapping from GSD's to SWF's as in your perception provide equal fear/deterrent factor...........lets be realistic good point, I can just imagine a security chihuahua, a pekingnese schutzhund . I wonder why we never see it if the breed doesn't matter. I am constantly amazed as to how defensive certain people are about the disclosure of the breed involved in an attack. I guess it is a case of wanting the breed to remain hidden and then to accuse the media of sensationalism. If we don't embrace the problems with certain breedings, they cannot be effectively improved. My breed are GSD's, and there some very poorly bred aggressive GSD's around that needs to be uncovered where these breedings come from I think. A good GSD isn't aggressive, it should be calm, stable and fearless and react only to threat and provocation, not be in a state of sharpness wanting to get everyone before they get it acting out fear aggression. Dogs like this are no good, poor examples of the breed which applies likewise with many other breeds in the same fashion.

You must be pulling our leg , do you think an SWF attack and Rotty attack would result in the potential for an equal level of injury???. I understand where you are coming from, a dog is a dog and all that, but in reality, breed, size and power having and equal level of aggression is the difference between a torn pair of pants and a scratch on the ankle to loosing half your arm or worse. I can't really see the police K9 units swapping from GSD's to SWF's as in your perception provide equal fear/deterrent factor...........lets be realistic good point, I can just imagine a security chihuahua, a pekingnese schutzhund . I wonder why we never see it if the breed doesn't matter. Correct Let's gather some perspective Off leash aggressive dogs, we have all encountered them, we all dislike being bailed up and threatened by them and we all have an obligation to our own dogs to protect them from attack. No one in their right mind when sizing up the potential for an aggressive dog to inflict an injury upon our own dog, will have the same level of fear from an SWF charging at you compared with a Rotty, GSD, Pitbull etc etc of a large powerful breed. An 8 year old child can boot off an SWF, but can an 8 year old child defend themselves against a charging 40 kilo dog in full flight of aggression???...........think about it

I agree. I'm more scared of the SWF as most want to murder [you can sense if through their body language] my Belgian girl when we walk the neighbourhoods and they are all going nuts at their secure gates. There is a large [breed withheld] canine on our regular route and she's a real sweety to me through the fence but warning barks at Ivy as it's HER turf. Breed makes no difference, it's the way they are raised and looked after. Why don't the police K9 units take any breeds for patrol work if the only difference is how a dog is raised and looked after???. Are we likely to see the K9 Maltese evolve in the near future

You must be pulling our leg , do you think an SWF attack and Rotty attack would result in the potential for an equal level of injury???. I understand where you are coming from, a dog is a dog and all that, but in reality, breed, size and power having and equal level of aggression is the difference between a torn pair of pants and a scratch on the ankle to loosing half your arm or worse. I can't really see the police K9 units swapping from GSD's to SWF's as in your perception provide equal fear/deterrent factor...........lets be realistic Well said Black Bronson! I cannot believe how some people can be so stubborn and refuse the face the facts. F'ck, I was bitten by a shih tzu once, and yes it was a painful bite to the ankle but I know I would rather have suffered that than to be faced with a bigger dog namely a ======. Now, I am trying to visualise the K9 police with a maltese in tow, lol, that would frighten the beegeesas out of any crim! I can just picture that..........the K9 squad rolls up, opens the back of the van and out pops a Maltese on a retractor leash............"STOP or I will deploy the dog" say's the K9 officer..........that's hillarious . The crim would probably be caught falling over and wetting his pants with laughter

Some prefer the whole story, not half of it???. The breed does matter in terms of fear factor for example, I was walking through an industrial area Saturday afternoon and a Rotty guard dog was going off at the fence of these premises. I am thinking, I hope that dog can't get out somewhere If it was an SWF going off at the fence line in an aggressive rage, I couldn't care less, so yes, breed does have an impact on most people. Some also get sick of breed bashing as well which does tend to happen in these threads I really don't get the fear factor statement you made Should people be fearful of certain breeds I don't think so they should be fearful of the actual dog who will bite and not the breed, biting does not really relate to breed. I have an two examples 1. While waiting for a plane to arrive we pulled up alongside the freeway and parked fairly close to the fence where there was a German Shepherd guard dog, he went nuts when we got out of the car so I walked over to the fence to look at him as he was a gorgeous longcoat sable (a passion of mine ) he was the sweetest dog and didn't mind being petted in the least. 2. Walking my two dogs through an industrial site a Rottweiler guard dog went off as he saw us approach we just kept walking and then my GSD boy gave a reply back and he scuttled off whining like he was scared, my boy only gave a warning bark. Obviously the moral to these stories is while some dogs sound scary in fact they aren't don't judge breeds judge dogs on actual facts of what happens It's not uncommon for people to use pets as guard dogs for a deterrent factor, but you wouldn't pet a trained guard dog through the fence, neither would it run away if challenged, but seriously, all dogs having a potential to cause equal injury level belief is not true. Football size dogs fly off the boot as easily as a football does, big one's don't.....that's a fact

You must be pulling our leg , do you think an SWF attack and Rotty attack would result in the potential for an equal level of injury???. I understand where you are coming from, a dog is a dog and all that, but in reality, breed, size and power having and equal level of aggression is the difference between a torn pair of pants and a scratch on the ankle to loosing half your arm or worse. I can't really see the police K9 units swapping from GSD's to SWF's as in your perception provide equal fear/deterrent factor...........lets be realistic

Some prefer the whole story, not half of it???. The breed does matter in terms of fear factor for example, I was walking through an industrial area Saturday afternoon and a Rotty guard dog was going off at the fence of these premises. I am thinking, I hope that dog can't get out somewhere If it was an SWF going off at the fence line in an aggressive rage, I couldn't care less, so yes, breed does have an impact on most people.

Mandatory desexing would be an issue for me having an 11 week old working line GSD puppy that is planned to be trained for a working title. If he turns out well, he will be used at stud possibly in 3 years time, but I am not a breeder or have any inclination to breed, training takes up enough time There are many working dog people in the same position I am and males of certain breeds need to be preserved for the future of particular working lines presenting a problem with such legislation. There are ways around it, but there shouldn't be a forced necessity to bend the rules in these circumstances.