poochiemama

Obviously this is a very fraught issue... these sort of situations are becoming more and more frequent in dog parks. I can't enjoy going to them anymore because I'm so anxious something will happen. I'm actually thinking of walking them more and not taking them to the park - looking for alternatives to the dog park. I guess one option is doing the walks, and then taking them to doggie day care for their socialisation a couple of times a month. It's expensive but my thinking is that the dogs there are temperament tested at least and you'd think they'd be well socialised and not reactive otherwise their owners wouldn't take them there. There are no guarantees of course, but it's a very supervised environment (you'd hope). Just a thought aussielover.

I think this thread has turned into 'rude / boisterous dogs rushing a reactive dog '... But aussielover's post was actually something different - her dog was not rushing the reactive dog... she was minding her own business and walking in the park when this guy made the comment. I can understand how some people are anxious about over-friendly dogs rushing their reactive dogs...i totally get it, i would be anxious too. But equally, people have a right to get anxious if an aggressive dog is running around off-lead in close proximity to their dogs. I just don't think it's safe, for any of the parties involved. I am talking about offleash dog parks, not walking on a sideway or on the street, in which case, dogs must be on leash and then these incidents shouldn't happen ( I also hate it when people come up to me in the street saying 'my dog just wants to say hi' because a lot of the times, their dogs ARE reactive and I prefer to just walk in peace, I've actually started saying 'sorry, it's better not to as she's just had a bad experience with a dog'). The thing is, many people with reactive dogs have commented 'Well , I have a right to be there and people with no effective control don't have a right to be in the dog park' - I think part of the problem is 'effective control' is quite hard to define...a dog's recall might be 99% (I don't think there is such a thing as 100% recall) - but what about that 1% chance that the dog will run over? Even in a perfect world, with all dog owners who take their dogs to the park having perfect control over their dogs, there will be incidents where the dogs will mess up (they're dogs after all, they're not perfect, and neither are we humans). So the best thing is for all parties to be as safe and responsible as possible. Yes, this includes dog owners trying to ensure as good a recall as possible; but it also includes dog owners keeping others safe from their reactive dogs. I know that legally a dog that hasn't been declared dangerous (YET) doesn't have to be muzzled, but wouldn't it be safer for everyone involved if a dog who can potentially 'rip' another dog's head off is muzzled? Just in the interest of public safety? AND definitely on a leash... Also 'effective control' applies also to owners with reactive/DA dogs. If an aggressive dog attacks mine, can that dog owner say their dog is under control??

Aussielover, I think it's ridiculous and horrific that people have to say things like 'My dog will rip your dog's head off' just for the purpose of having that part of the park to themselves. It's completely selfish. I don't like the attitude that people feel it's within their right to make this sort of comment or to 'exaggerate' just to get over-friendly dogs away from them. If your dog is that aggressive/reactive, it has no place in an offleash park where the likelihood of a dog running up to them is so high. It DOES happen whether you like it or not, it happens EVERY DAY, and dogs get bitten EVERY DAY as a result of this. Aggressive dogs must be muzzled, on leash, and away from these public places - especially a dog who is likely to 'rip' another dog's head off; exaggeration or not, I can see why this comment bothered you. It's a public dog park. and you have an absolute right to use it without fearing for your dog's life or being 'threatened' in this way. I don't think you can report this guy as nothing happened... but pls be very careful with your beautiful dog in the park as unfortunately these sort of people are everywhere. It's sad - I used to think that 'dog people' were a special breed - kinder, more accepting etc but I guess they are humans just like everyone else, with the same mix of rudeness and selfishness as everyone else

Voted too.. I love it!

Cosmolo, I just checked out your website...i had looked at it previously as an option for boarding our dogs when we went on holiday but didn't get organised in time I'd love some more information if you think you guys can help with these issues... i'm particularly interested in the 'training walks' - do you train loose-leash walking on these walks? Or is it better to do obedience classes? I am confused as there are so many options when it comes to dog training - what is my best option for the behaviours I want to train? If you are able to help, pls PM me details of what you can offer including costs. We have a labrador and a golden retriever, both just turned approx 1 year old. Thank you in advance.

Thank you so much for the replies...will definitely check out that recall method. I'm in South Eastern suburbs of Melbourne.

I am thinking of taking our lab and goldie back to obedience classes or to a private dog trainer... We have been to dog obedience clubs in the past and stopped going due to a couple of very bad experiences, the worst of which was an obedience club which was very 'military' in their approach, constantly yelling at us to pull harder at the choke chain, and when we didn't have the heart to, coming and doing a 'demonstration' with the dog nearly hanging on the choke chain, and other students were being encouraged to yell into their dogs faces. All the dogs looked terrified and we walked out of the class halfway. Our other bad experience was with a 'dog psychologist/ behaviourist' who came to our house when our lab was a puppy...we were novice dog owners; she charged an obscene amount of money (I think around $400) for an hour of her time, and basically made a 'checklist' of behaviours we wanted to improve on, and then advised us to ignore all bad behaviour (which we had already told her we'd tried with no effect eg ignoring mouthing/biting behaviour)... it really wasn't very helpful and I got more ideas by looking on these forums. I learnt clicker training, taught them heaps of tricks to keep their minds busy, upped their exercise, and the basics: sit, stay, come etc as well as some basic politeness like not jumping on people, not disturbing when we are eating, not nipping or mouthing etc They are very well-socialised, beautiful dogs but I wanted to train them loose-leash walking (currently using no-pull harness but I don't think thats a long term solution) and also improve their recall (these are our two priorities)... They are hitting adolescence now, so they are testing limits a little, eg trying to jump on to furniture when we are sitting there or jumping on the bed , which they never used to do. Our other priority would be teaching them downstay if we go to a cafe or if guests come over; they love guests, but as they've come into adolescence, they are trying to jump on the couch when the guests are there, and not all our guests are 'dog people'. So I would love for recommendations for great, positive dog trainers in melbourne, either in a group training situation or to come home. Any ideas? We are looking for exceptional dog trainers; don't want to waste any more money or time. Very grateful for any suggestions.

So lovely to hear how much you have done for your beautiful lab ... they are the most loving and beautiful creatures on earth. Just a little thought about the barking...our chocolate lab used to bark nonstop when we first got him...and nothing worked (we had a 'behaviouralist' over who charged an obscene amount of money and just told us to 'ignore him' if he barked, but that never worked and only served to tick off the neighbours). But we were trying to keep him as an outside dog and then, after reading these forums, decided to bring him inside and make him an inside dog; this made a WORLD of difference and he never, ever barks anymore (unless there is someone at the door). It's just a thought, but you may already have him inside... As for someone's suggestion to get a 2nd dog ;), we actually did get a second dog, a golden retriever, and this made our lab much happier, but there are two sides to that argument, because they do teach each other bad habits; many people say it's best to get a 2nd dog when the first one is fully trained.

I soooo want a cat!!! But I'm always scared that the cat wouldn't get along with our two dogs...these pictures give me renewed hope!

I fell into dog ownership in quite a naive way and got a chocolate labrador because it was 'cute', and I am ashamed to say, did not have much more of an idea than what the average person has about labradors...those cute puppies in ads, the guide dogs etc. MANY people fall into dog ownership this way and have these sort of ideas about dogs, and I don't think that should be criminalised it's what you do about it when you do have a dog that counts. For the first two months we had charlie as a puppy, i was completely and utterly overwhelmed; he was CONSTANTLy on the move, full of energy, chewing everything, digging. The worst thing was awful nipping and biting at our clothes. I got to the point where i was quite frightened he was going to bite me. And then I committed to learning everything I could about labradors and worked so hard on training him. It was such a steep learning curve and I'm still learning. We worked on him on stopping the nipping and biting, stopped his jumping, toilet trained him and channelled his energy into doing other things. So now he knows heaps of tricks, he's so much calmer and he's the happiest dog around. The best, best thing we did was soon after we got him, after trying to keep him as an 'outside' dog, where he was unhappy and barking all the time, we brought him IN and his bond with us and behaviour completely changed and we were so much happier too (although the house is messier). I just completely adore him now and he's my best buddy. But they were really trying days, those first two months (and it could have been longer if we hadn't started educating ourselves). He's now just hit adolescence and I know it will be another trying time but we are more aware now of what we should be doing. My point is, I think if i had young children, the time commitment to train a dog fully and exercise it adequately, i don't know if i could have done that. Many people can, but in our case, I think it would have been too much. And also, there would be a constant fear that my kids would be the victim of the nipping or biting problems. I think as people have suggested, an older labrador or dog from rescue may be a better option than a puppy. Charlie is now the most even tempered, well-mannered and beautiful dog. Nothing fazes him and kids at the park love him and play with him and he is very gentle with them. BUT if this was the same time last year, he would have been too full-on for them. Haven't heard from the OP on all the comments, would be nice to get her opinions now on this.

Thanks guys, pls keep the recommendations coming!

Thank you very much thommomac, and i'm glad you got to read part of the thread it did get very full on. I'm very happy that your dog was ok after his traumatic incident. It makes me so sad that these things happen, but they do. By the way i don't think there is any such thing as a 'dog guru', i think most of them claim to know much more than they actually do. I'm happy to take advice from responsible and caring dog owners over a 'dog guru' any day! It's lovely to have received your words of support and Hannah is doing beautifully. Today we went to a dog park (nervously) and she had an absolutely blast, but we stayed for a short while and left while the going was good we were also there at a time when there were only a few dogs. We also took her to the vet this morning and he was happy that everything was fine. Did you have a thread about your frenchie recently? I remember reading something about a frenchie being attacked, and my heart absolutely went out to him. It sounds like he is fine now though...frenchies are tough little dogs ;)

We are going away in a couple of weeks and wanting to board our dogs at someone's house; would like to know if anyone can recommend someone in melbourne who does this?

Simple question - does anyone have any dog websites they love visiting or dog blogs? ? Obviously this forum but what else? Sometimes I go to www.phetched.com and it has great reviews of cool dog products.

Thanks poodlefan - I haven't taken her to the vet yet as the wound looks clean and it's on her face so i wasn't too worried about internal injury but i am thinking i should take her, maybe for some antibiotics. It's also quite close to her eye so i should get it checked out. Will take her tomorrow. We are members of a dog obedience club; it's a great idea, i didn't think of that. We went for a long walk on lead today and they were quite happy with that. There has been so much finger pointing and hair pulling on this thread, and someone mentioned 'the good, the bad and the ugly'...it did get pretty ugly. It's funny, i go and check out this other forum called dogsey.com (I think it's british) sometimes and i went on there yesterday - a very similar incident had happened to someone else, and there was so much support for her and 'wish you well, hope your dog is ok' kind of messages. So I got some 'second-hand' support from there. There have been some really helpful comments on this thread though, so thank you everyone for the suggestions.

I think most people here would be aware of this The same applies for dog parks and leash free areas and of course you are in the bloody wrong if your dog goes up to any onleash dog and an incident occurs. I think this is black-and-white thinking , but have already addressed these sort of comments in earlier posts.

From my understanding and reading of it, Eagle Pack Holistic used to be a great food but then their company changed hands and things haven't been so great. It's disappointing because i had high hopes for it but his coat was very coarse on it and dandruff was bad. It could be the seasonal shed though because he was shedding a lot but his coat is lovely and soft with Artemis. Also his weight is better on it too. Our goldie is doing great on it, but i would like her to gain some weight.

Bub, I think your relationship with Bitty is beautiful. I know there is a whole move away from anthropomorphism and the trend now is to assume that dogs just respond to discipline, structure and order...There is some truth to that; but one is not mutually exclusive of the other: dogs DO respond to structure, discipline etc but I do believe they can sense love or resentment from people. We are animals just as they are, and I think it's human arrogance that leads us to believe that only we can sense these things. They might not be able to intellectualise it eg 'My owner is angry with me today; it could be she had a bad day at work or maybe she is angry i dug up her garden today, maybe if i'm very good, she'll be happy again'.... I don't know if they can think through things that way, but I do believe they can FEEL those emotions. I know when we got our lab puppy he was so destructive and I felt neutral towards him but I grew to love him, with all his naughtiness and his incredible exuberance and zest for life. It inspires me every day and I just sometimes look at him and just ADORE him. I think he knows it too because he is so much more comfortable and at ease at home and follows me everywhere. One way of looking at it is that he is more used to us now and feels safer, but i give them a bit more credit than that. Mind you , if you have a treat on you, he doesn't care if you're looking at him with hate or love That's when he stops thinking or feeling and it's just complete obsession !

Thanks corvus and dancingbcs. i just hope i'm never in that situation again but if it does happen, i wanted to have a strategy and people have given me many useful suggestions. I once also heard of a spray which you can spray into a dog fight to break it up (at the risk of the dog turning around and biting you) - anyone have any experience with that? She is well socialised and has just turned one; i hope that she does learn to discriminate. Our lab is a little older than her and has a great sense of which dogs he should approach and not approach, which is great. I never taught him that, he just has a sixth sense for that.

This. I found that after several months of taking my dog to dog parks almost daily, he started acting out when faced with dogs that were either dominant or not so dominant but bouncy and lacking in manners. I have had a behaviourist assess Justice and the verdict was that he is naturally a highly submissive dog and was proven to be able to be successfully introduced to a huge range of breeds and sizes without issue, provided the other dog was calm and didn't behave in a manner that would be considered by other dogs to be rude. Note - that does not mean that because people see a dogs' behaviour as friendly that it's not rude to another dog. Justice loves playing with other dogs and I love watching him tearing around off leash having a blast but there are ways to do this that don't involve the risks of dog parks, which we no longer go to. I have specifically sourced dogs that are suitable for Justice to play with through other DOLers and started setting up play dates with only one or two other dogs at a time. We choose parks that are ordinarily completely empty and whose entrances are highly visible and allow us to put our dogs back on leash in the event that someone else does come along, before they enter the park. He also plays with my Mum's dog and two dogs that he has a proven history with at a local dual purpose park - a park that has only one entrance and is small enough that no matter where you are in the park you can see someone approaching with another dog before they enter. There is no reason why you couldn't do something similar with your dog if you still want play time with other dogs. It just takes a bit of planning and organisation, which is well worth it when it means your dog is no longer at risk of being attacked or being involved in a fight for telling off another rude dog. Thank you that's very helpful. Sometimes we go to the local park in the evening after work around 8 and it's very quiet, there's no one there and we feel so safe. They have an absolute ball and when we get home they are knackered. But then, there are no other dogs there and i would like them to play with a couple of well-socialised dogs. It's a bit tricky in our neighbourhood as there are no parks similar to the ones you describe above, most are over-run with dogs unless you go at odd times. But I do have a friend who has a couple of lovely dogs and i think i'm going to organise some playdates with her dogs as you guys have suggested. By the way , I think someone mentioned that I only have one dog but I actually have two. Do people think that two 'sibling' dogs playing together all the time is fine or do dogs need to do play with a host of different dogs to be satisfied?

Hehe Tim's mum, your post made me laugh, very well-put. I'm just beginning to realise how many anal dog owners there are out there. It is not practical to watch your dog every nano-second and sometimes your dog is too far before you can do anything about it. That is absolutely a reality in dog parks. And there is a risk. That's why i'm rethinking going to dog parks at all but it breaks my heart because they love it so much.

I think most people here would be aware of this

Yeah malsrock, I am rethinking it. I am loathe to stop the dog park experience altogether, maybe i'll take them at quieter times. Although at the moment, i can't do it as i'd be too nervous. Bub, thank you for your support - it's nice to know i'm not the only one who feels this way. by the way your dogs are adorable! wow, i cant' believe how much debate this thread generated . it's a heated issue I guess.

malrock, i'm with you on that one, i don't think blaming is the answer here, i have reiterated this in my posts again and again. And I AM seriously rethinking the dog park issue. But I have had to respond to people like sheridan who insist on passing the blame and making this a finger-pointing issue. It's unhelpful. But frankly sheridan i have address the sort of comment you just made multiple times so i'm not going there again, you havent seem to have gotten the point and i'm banging my head against a brick wall.

Nutro Large Breed might be a good one for you to look into. It has high levels of Essential Fatty Acids, as well as VitE and Zinc. It's 100% natural, australian made, and a little cheaper than both EP and RC. I second this! I had my Chessie pup on EP for a good 2 months, 1 month gradual changeover and 1 months straight EP, I don't think he did one solid poo that whole time and his coat was a bit matt. Switched to Nutro and the gloss came back, the wight came on and I only had to feed half of what I did for EP to keep the weight on, oh and the poos were pretty good. Another Nutro feeder and both my dogs are doing well! Shiny coats on both and nice poops. I've changed foods a fair amount but very happy to now stay on Nutro My puppy has been on Large Breed Puppy Nutro for four months and I'm having no trouble keeping a perfect weight on him as Pointers can he really hard to keep in good condition while pups. Also a really good price. Your dogs look wonderful!