~Anne~

What we can glean from her opinion, is that people prefer cross bred dogs over purebred dogs because of perceived faults and problems in purebred dogs. We need to market the unique qualities of the purebred dog. We need to (dare I say it yet again) look at it from a business perspective.

What can you say. Good grief.

Yes, exactly. Boxerheart, just a comment - to be a business you do not have to make profit, but that is the usual aim for a business though. Many businesses do not make profit. For example, Charities are run like businesses but they are not about making profit. Business isn't a dirty word, nor is profit for that matter either. I think thats the problem - that most beeders don't see or want to see themselves as a business, some beeders here are agreeing with some of what Steve said.eg Their right to set a non-refundable deposit. So it looks like some feel the need to act like a business only when they have to find homes for their dogs. I think some breeders want it both ways because of the demands in their unique hobby. And maybe that is what it is. Beats me. I find it amazing how defensive people can become when you use the word business and profit. It confuses and amuses me all in one hit. It happens not only in breeding, but also in rescue.

Yes, exactly. Boxerheart, just a comment - to be a business you do not have to make profit, but that is the usual aim for a business though. Many businesses do not make profit. For example, Charities are run like businesses but they are not about making profit. Business isn't a dirty word, nor is profit for that matter either. That is the point...we are neither a CHARITY nor a business and we are classified by the tax office as a HOBBY. Sure some that do breed in guantities with the purpose of making a profit, or a rescue organisation will be viewed differently but there is a DEFINITIVE DIFFERENCE. What the hell are you on about? Of course there is a difference, but who in the hell said you have to breed for profit??? You, along with a few others, need to relax about the word business and profit. Everytime you see it, you start foaming at the mouth almost. No-one is saying you have to make profit. No-one is saying you have to breed for profit. I have no idea how to write it more clearly. Perhaps you need to read what Steve has said. She and I are BOTH saying the same thing but in a different way.

Yes, exactly. Boxerheart, just a comment - to be a business you do not have to make profit, but that is the usual aim for a business though. Many businesses do not make profit. For example, Charities are run like businesses but they are not about making profit. Business isn't a dirty word, nor is profit for that matter either.

So now you agree it should be run like a business

Animal right progpaganda be buggered. Try peer group. The only people I have ever heard make statements in this regard are breeders. Animal rights groups are more likely to say you shouldn't be breeding at all. Well said.

She's very cute!

Sorry, I just thought I would highlight this too.... kinf of funny don't you think?

I wasn't giving a 'business lesson', I was offering my opinion as you offered yours. I don't have the time nor the inclination to give business lessons over the internet on a discussion forum. I will repeat this though; You can tie yourself in knots all you like about the words trade or business or any other word, but when it comes down to it, you are actually selling a product that the market wants to buy. If we want to show that purebred dogs are superior, than we may need to look at different approaches. The same ol' same ol' just 'aint working anymore. Hobby, business or whatever, you sell a product (puppies) that consumers (the public) buy. To me, that is trading. The law, to my knowledge, also considers what you do, when it comes to consumer rights, a trade. I understand that it seems to upset people when their hobby, that they do for the good feelings of course, is considerd in any commerical way. Money exchanges hands though. Don't dare mention profit either. P r o f i t is a despicable word in the dog world. You're meant to run your breeding program from the smell of an oily rag and run at a loss otherwise you can not wear your badge of honour about how dedicated you are to the cause. An over dramatisation? Of course it is. Sometimes a dramatic view on things are needed though. Jump on me all you like, I'll always be here and I will always state what I think.

There is a difference between treating animals as products and running a breeding program as though it was or is a business. I treated my rescue as a business but that didn't mean that I looked at the dogs coming through as commodities or 'livestock'. They were real life little Pugs who had their own particular needs and I cared for them and re-homed them in that way. Talk about get hung up on a the word "trade" and "business". By and large, purebred breeders are a dying breed. I think this is partly because of the out of date views and a refusal to see life in any other way. Breeding isn't ever going to be easy. Not only do you have to understand the science behind what you are creating and developing, but you also have to understand the basic business principles of pricing, marketing and sale. You can tie yourself in knots all you like about the words trade or business or any other word, but when it comes down to it, you are actually selling a product that the market wants to buy. If we want to show that purebred dogs are superior, than we may need to look at different approaches. The same ol' same ol' just 'aint working anymore.

The sooner breeders realise it needs to be treated like a business the better.

Yep I would agree with that but I can see why a deposit may be non refundable if the breeder is providing something other than the pup at the time of deposit which would be saleable - such as their puppy pack or if the breeder is passing up sales because they think that one is taken. If someone pulls out at th elast minute then they have to pay extra for advertising etc to find a replacement sale. When I was breeding Ragdoll kittens I took non refundable deposits on my pet kittens. That was because if a kitten was going home as a pet it was desexed 2 weeks before it went home.That obviously meant that I couldnt then sell it as a breeding cat if the buyer changed their mind. A pet kitten back then was around $650 and a breeding kitten up to $2000. Sure, I can understand that the breeder may be left with an animal, however, that comes with the trade in my opinion. I would certainly ask for a deposit, without question, but I would not make it non-refundable. I can't even imagine it is legal to not refund the money if the sale goes through?? (sorry if this has been mentioned somehwere here already).

I wouldn't pay a non-refundable deposit an anything, much less a dog. Non-refundable has 'come in sucker' written all over it, particularly if the deposit is substantial.

Mine too. It is disgusting and they also spread the litter everywhere when they do. Thankfully, my puss tends to have a good routine so I usually know when to expect her to have done one and I clean it long beofre the dogs can realise it is there.

Yes, sorry d22. I've just read TMs post and she is right. I'll stop discussing him.

Maybe he's in Melbourne but his 'friend' is in Sydney? Which friend, Tony or.. what was the other one called... umm.. Tony? Actually I am not sure if he made it into the deleted thread... I only know how to look at a single cached page and so i can't read the next 2 pages to see why it was delted. :0 Yes Anne - pretty sure he had a mention in that thread. He was mentioned, but did he actually take part in it? The thread was started a couple of weeks ago by someone asking if he was for real or if it was a scammer or similar.

Maybe he's in Melbourne but his 'friend' is in Sydney? Which friend, Tony or.. what was the other one called... umm.. Tony? Actually I am not sure if he made it into the deleted thread... I only know how to look at a single cached page and so i can't read the next 2 pages to see why it was delted. :0

Tony, why do you advertise on Gumtree that you are in Victoria, but your avatar info on DOL says you are based in Manly in Sydney? Oh, and why was your last attempt at joining in on DOL discussions, by advertsing your 'services' deleted?

Bahhahaha. Ok dogwhisperer/tony/doglover... whatever.

From the 'Aussie Dog Whisperer's' site; I'd love to know where he studied for his 'masters degree' in Energy and Emotional Communication and Healing. I sincerely hopes he corrects the spelling and grammar on the site too... what is it with the fascination with capital letters too?

Poke a strange dog that is behaving aggressively?!! Are you serious! If I had a large stick I might 'poke' it, though to be honest, I'd be more inclined to belt it acorss the rump, but I would NEVER poke a strange dog that is acting aggressively with my hand.

Oooh, looks nice!

And then you even quoted it again!

Or dog as the case maybe.