~Anne~

The subject of the thread is about scammers though where the dog doesn't exist. If the person sees a pup, hands over money, and takes the pup in hand they can't be scammed in such a way. Nope, just in other ways. :laugh: I don't care HOW you buy, its about doing your homework. And if the deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. Responsible, reputable breeders sell interstate all the time. However if all anyone wants is your $$$, its a good sign that the deal is suss. Oh you bet they can be (scammed in other ways). You've only got to look at how many people buy some crossbreed pup and theyre told its a chihuahua cross and it grows to be the size of a kelpie. It is all buyer beware as everyone knows. The problem is that most pet owners are not that savvy when it comes to buying dogs. The risk for them is greatly increased when buying a dog unseen.

I had photos sent to me from two scammers. All were stolen from other websites/blogs, and where they stupidly sent multiple photos, they clearly were not the same dogs! They usually claim to be AKC registered, and it sounds all very official to the average person on the street who doesn't know anything about Australian purebreds dogs. I also know of one case where they emailed a copy of the 'pedigree'. It turned out that the pedigree was that of a dog of someone we knew. They had obviously stolen it from somewhere and then used it to make their scam seem more credible.

I don't know either. :laugh: Everything these days seems to be twisted due to the sensitive over reacting to everything.

The inference being that nobody should purchase a dog from interstate or overseas because they are more likely to be scammed...... Umm, no. Just the usual reading and not understanding what is being said by people who then try to put two and two together and somehow stupidly come up with 3. I never said that you are more likely to get scammed buying a dog interstate. I said that people should not buy a dog unseen and have it shipped to them and that I can't understand why anyone would do it. If I am going to pay a substantial amount for a dog I would not hand my money over willy nilly to some stranger on the Internet.

Yes, I purchased one from the USA sight unseen and she is a great little dog.I couldn't be happier. I have purchased from breeders many pups sight unseen. Have you ever thought that your warning may be doing the sellers in other states a great dis-service ?. Not only that, the the puppy buyers may be missing out on getting a great puppy. Not all of us are unethical and I take great umbridge at your insinuation. It is always easily overcome by any puppy purchasers who may be a bit wary, just ask them to ring the Controlling Body of your state and and ask if they have ever had any problems or complaints about the breeder you are dealing with. Also ask if they have friend that may be will to see the puppy on their behalf. I do this and have never had a problem. Not that I breed very of thess days. The word ethical and reputable does apply to many of us that breed and sell to other states. Yes, I will agree that there are some that are unethical and some that are scammers where the pup does not even exhist but if the purchasers did their research into the breed and the breeder they should have little or no problems. A disservice? No, not at all. You qualify my statements further on in your post when you say "Also ask if they have friend that may be will to see the puppy on their behalf." You are therefore suggesting it is a good idea to veiw the pup first. There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. Personally, I'd prefer to be the eyes however, as I have done in rescue, I have used other people to act on my behalf and be my eyes. Asking a friend to look at the pup first is the same thing. Take umbridge all you like. To think that I am saying that people who sell dogs interstate are unethical takes a HUGE stretch of imagination. :laugh: Seriously. NO I DON'T qualify any statement. I find I do it to give a service because we have people telling prospective buyers not to buy interstate always go and visit the breeder.!!! Then again we have some great purchasers that do their research and home work and end up purchasing just what they wanted from interstate from ethical reliable breeders. Stop huffing. It won't change anything.

The subject of the thread is about scammers though where the dog doesn't exist. If the person sees a pup, hands over money, and takes the pup in hand they can't be scammed in such a way. I'm happy to continue to advise puppy buyers to go and meet the breeder. In my breed particularly I think the effort is worth it. Naturally others can think and or advise as they choose. I really don't care either way, afterall it's not my money being taken.

Yes, I purchased one from the USA sight unseen and she is a great little dog.I couldn't be happier. I have purchased from breeders many pups sight unseen. Have you ever thought that your warning may be doing the sellers in other states a great dis-service ?. Not only that, the the puppy buyers may be missing out on getting a great puppy. Not all of us are unethical and I take great umbridge at your insinuation. It is always easily overcome by any puppy purchasers who may be a bit wary, just ask them to ring the Controlling Body of your state and and ask if they have ever had any problems or complaints about the breeder you are dealing with. Also ask if they have friend that may be will to see the puppy on their behalf. I do this and have never had a problem. Not that I breed very of thess days. The word ethical and reputable does apply to many of us that breed and sell to other states. Yes, I will agree that there are some that are unethical and some that are scammers where the pup does not even exhist but if the purchasers did their research into the breed and the breeder they should have little or no problems. A disservice? No, not at all. You qualify my statements further on in your post when you say "Also ask if they have friend that may be will to see the puppy on their behalf." You are therefore suggesting it is a good idea to veiw the pup first. There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. Personally, I'd prefer to be the eyes however, as I have done in rescue, I have used other people to act on my behalf and be my eyes. Asking a friend to look at the pup first is the same thing. Take umbridge all you like. To think that I am saying that people who sell dogs interstate are unethical takes a HUGE stretch of imagination. :laugh: Seriously.

Bye. :)

Just remember e-mail isn't always reliable, e-mails can get lost in cyber space, servers go down. If you don't hear back, call :) Agree. I have had several people state they have emailed me in the last 18 months or more. The problem is they emailed my old email. Some people get a response saying the email address doesn't exist and others don't. I am sure there are a few who think I haven't responded but I can't respond to what I don't see. Emails are not foolproof.

Nope- not breeders terms. One particular case is here in AU, the "guardian families" do however get to keep 'their' dog after it turns four, and is retired from breeding. (I guess that's something) Want to say that not all in this developing *ahem* breed are like this. Most actually do keep their dogs as family pets and have few litters every now and then. I'm pretty tired of this thread- so this is the last I'll say. Because I don't know much about it nor have I heard of it before I am reluctant to pass judgement on it. Sorry. Do you perhaps have any links abou tit?

The word 'reputable' is very subjective. It has to be the most overused and misused word in the dog world. I can think of 4 Pug breeders off the top of my head in Sydney metro and surrounds who regularly breed black Pugs. It seems you are just unlucky minimax. You were unlucky when trying to buy a rescue and unlucky when trying to buy a purebred too. Some people just don't have much luck I guess. I am sure there are many people who have purchased a dog unseen without issue. I agree that the scams aren't happening with breeders in general, there usually isn't even a dog let alone it being a legitimate breeder selling a dog. Personally, I can can pick them a mile away. Personally, I practice what I preach and I preach consistently to puppy buyers - meet the breeder, develop a relationship, meet the dam and the sire (where possible), meet the puppy and the rest of the litter and then purchase if you are happy with what you see. When I ran my rescue, I wouldn't re-home a dog to home site unseen as the potential owner could be telling me anything over the phone and in emails. I trust my eyes more than I trust the written or spoken word.

Actually I think there should be a balance about the potential new owners 'wants' and the dog's 'needs'.

Im just flabbergastered that they think they can get away with it !! The problem is they DO get away with it! There will always be gullible consumers and it is these types they prey on. I have never understood why anyone would buy a puppy unseen and have it shipped to them when, for most breeds, there are breeders within a reasonable distance. The common thing I guess is price.... but then there is the age old saying of "if it's too good to be true, then it probably isn't."

I'm not sure I understand the concept sorry. Why would some need a guardian family exactly?

:laugh: I can recall getting a call at 6.50am on a Sunday from a woman up the coast. At the time, I was on an overnight reprieve from the rescue (well Monte actually) and I had a rare chance to sleep past 5am. The conversation started very blearily and ended a short time later with her sobbing and telling me how her much loved dog had died the year before. It seems she was still in heavy mourning and just wanted someone to talk to. I don't mind that part but I certainly wasn't excited about being woken so early on a rare day off! :laugh:

Interestingly, if they really only wanted to puppy farm or breed indiscriminately they wouldn't have joined a group and signed up under a code of ethics anyway. Do people really think it would help sales if this is what they thought they would achieve? Puppy farmers don't seem to have any problems flogging their puppies do why pay to join a group and play to the rules and ethics if this was the case? Seriously, it doesn't take a lot of logic to see that the breed development idea is a serious attempt to do the right thing.

This is what my Monte does but I think Monte's licking is related to his condition. I once read an article though about an ulcer or something along those lines causing the licking.

Many Animal Liberation groups are very closely aligned to PETA philosophies. So much so that I will no longer support them.

I can't help as it is outside me area of expertise but I am sure there will be many others who can offer advice and support. It sounds like she needs to be moved to someone who can accurately assess and monitor her.

Hopefully I wasn't one that 'ignored' you. I made it a point to contact people although I did receive several text messages over the years with messages such as 'I would like to adopt a pug, do you have any?' or 'I am looking for a rescue pug can you call me'. Neither would likely get a response if it was by text.

It seems very well written and very objective. It explained a few things for me and put the debate firmly in its place. I think sometimes we all lose sight of the points of discussion because of the emotions involved. I feel sad that this Vet is bearing the brunt of all this. Thanks for posting!

They arn't going for ANKC recognition? That quote from their website is complete rubbish, the real reason they aren't going for ANKC recognition is because they have no hope of getting it. Yep, neither does the Mini Foxie. Absurd isn't it.

Many breeds don't have ANKC recognition. The MDBA is a legitimate registry, just like the many other registries that exist in Australia. I wonder how many of you fit the Mini Foxie in your logic. What of the Australian Koolie? White Sheps? From my knowledge none of these are ANKC recognised either but they don't seem to come under the same ridicule. Perhaps it is because they aren't as new in their development? Maybe its because the word 'poodle' was never featured in their development? I must confess that I am not a fan of the name either. It does have a particular comical ring to it but it is a name that I will in time get used to I think, just like I have with others. I can see the humour in the video but I agree with Megan's initial statements.

Gee gosh, I haven't seen my old name used for some time. :laugh: Now, when you want to mention my name and claim things I have said, please be careful to actually state fact and not a deviated version to satisfy a poor memory or worse. I have evidence, facts and proof of the issues I have seen in the purebred Pug. There are also many Pug breeders who acknowledge those same issues. The difference is I am not hog tied by my peers for stating what the problems are. The most I risk is being abused by the clueless, ignorant or judgemental or those who simply disagree with my views, on dog forums. I am free to say as I please and I wish those breeders could as well. Sadly though, the purebred world isn't open to discussion, and certainly not to any real change at the best of times and those who speak up are labelled unkindly and unfairly. The best feature, and the single most redeeming feature of the Pug breed is its character. The essence of the Pug is its character. This is one of the rare characteristic that has remained true it seems for hundreds of years. Ive come to a point where I think the Pug will change. The change will be forced. I'd rather see a proactive approach instead being taken so that the change is controlled by knowledge but I feel this will not be the way it rolls.

. Well said. I'm still awaiting widespread evidence of breed clubs in Australia taking initiative to correct the issues seen in specific breeds. Enough of the softly softly too. This needs substantive action in some breeds.