~Anne~

Phew! A bit late coming back into this thread to check in how Feather is doing and I am relived to read she is doing well. Great news. How lucky is she to have such a loving, caring and dedicated owner like you, Kirislin.

Wow, I'm horrified about the Basie of such a drug. thanks for the link sandgrubber. Great pic of Zig Staffyluv. LMWS - thanks. He's doing remarkably well after his surgery.

We administered Valium rectally to Monte. It's hard to give a dog having a seizure a tablet and the Valium was absorbed much quicker this way. It was given to help stop a cluster.

My Boofy bear. He was 11 last November.

After dealing with Boof's ongoing mast cells, I'd rather epilepsy any day, even if it was as severe as Monte. Dogs can live quote well with epilepsy. Boof's spleen tumour looks like it might also have been an MCT. It was grapefruit in size. We will know for sure next week when the path results come back. Best of luck with Zig. Hopefully a light dose of Pb will do the trick.

Sending lots of good health vibes. Keep the faith and keep fighting for him.

I dont miss the attacks that used to occur, it's alot milder now. I agree. We are more aware of forum rules and less inclined to breach them. I for one rarely get warnings now. I don't agree that DOL is not as good as it was. It is still filled with knowledgeable people, nice people, helpful people and the rest. The real nastiness is what is missing and that is good. We've gained some great people and lost great people as well. Overall the balance is still pretty good, there is just less of the scammers and the crap that the forums were once filled with. I can still recall Troy being so frustrated with the battles and behaviours that he forcibly shut the forum down. We are all jumping on to other forums saying 'oh no! What will we do without DOL!' :laugh: That's how bad it used to be.

Staffyluv, the behaviour after the seizures is called the post ictal phase. Monte would become manic between seizures and then, after the last one, he was manic for a while and then slowed to restlessness until he was finally exhausted (he and I both!) and went back to sleep. He would crash into walls and be very disoriented. I've heard of other dogs becoming aggressive post ictal and others having the post ictal phase last literally for days. Every dog who suffers seizures is very different. It's like pregnancy and birth, no two are the same.

Thanks everyone. He's woken up quite bright which is surprising and very pleasing. I'm about to give him some breakfast and another painkiller. All is looking good so far. Bindo, I'm not sure they'll be looking for clear margins. They removed the entire spleen. I can't recall if I have said this already, apologies if I have, but they think it might be a MCT which is a slightly better option to a hermangiosarcoma at this point.

Controlled substance? I've never heard of drug addicts wanting phenobarbital. I don't doubt you just that I've never heard of it. Are you in Australia sandgrubber? Your profile leads one to believe you're in the us but then mine also says 'overseas'. We never discovered nay pattern or triggers for Monte over the years either. I recorded every single seizure. He had in excess of 350 seizures before he died. He had clusters of around 4 on average. He sometimes had more, sometimes less. He only ever once had a single seizure, they always came in clusters. He once went for just over 12 months without a seizure. He had tonic clonic and focal seizures and many presented in different ways. The greater majority occurred in the early hour so f the morning or very late at night when he was asleep.

Liver damage only occurs in dogs on high long term doses normally, Staffyluv. Monte, who was on high doses for more than 9 years was lucky. He had 12 monthly blood tests checking for serum levels and his liver. Never had a problem. Many dogs show no real side effects when on Pb. It depends on the dose and the dog. Monte's tail never curled well and he wasn't able to jump up much due to the ataxia. He was also restless. He drank a lot of water and he urinated a lot. Monte was also on bromide and this may also have amplified some of the side effects as both drugs had side effects.

Thank you everyone for your well wishes. He's home now. He's in a little bit of pain and finding it hard to get comfy. I'll give him some more painkillers in a little while to see if that helps him. The mass was much larger than expected apparently and was described as the size of a grapefruit. They think it is most likely another MCT. His X-rays were good except for an enlarged heart which they had already seen on a previous X-ray last year. As he shows no symptoms related to the heart they are not overly concerned but it isn't normal. They showed me the images and it is quite large.

I have oodles of experience with phenobarbital (Pb) and a couple of other anti epileptic meds. Depending on the dose age, you may see anything increased restlessness and weakness of the hind area to nothing at all. Usually light symptoms will disspear as his body gets used to the drug. Other symptoms are increased thirst and urination. Long term use can destroy the liver. The level of Pb drops very quickly in the dogs system after 12 hours and so timing is everything with ensuring optimal control of seizures. The dose will need to be adjusted to get it to optimal levels. He should be on it for at least 3 months and then a blood test should be done at trough levels (immediately prior to his next dose) to check the serum level.

Happy 10th DOLday. Mine is coming up this year also.

Thanks xyz. I'm not new to dogs or even veterinary nursing though. I can competently manage fluids and keep him quiet. He's a sloth normally so I expect he'll be even more sloth like after his surgery to be honest. :laugh: Aside from 24hr clinics, I've never left any of my dogs after surgery, only prior. I'm sure I can convince Pete he's arguing with the wrong woman. :) The only real positive is my time off work with him. I still remember bringing this little munchkin home in the car from Singleton. It was a stinking hot day, the freeway was blocked up as it was the Australai Day weekend and our air con blew up in the car on the drive up! His breeders gave me a bag of ice for him to lay on and keep cool. He was such a cute little fella. He still is.

Thanks everyone. I've booked the next two days off work so I can be there for his recovery. I'm hoping I don't have to argue with my vet to bring him home tomorrow after the surgery. He had previously advised they keep them overnight, but as I explained to him, given there isn't anyone at the clinic after hours he is better off with me.

Tomorrow is 'd' day. Boof is booked in for his splenectomy.

Okay, thank you. Maybe I should get my Pug's temperament assessed by a behaviourist first? I think we're similar in personality, but I find it hard to assess him because I'm so close to him. I wouldn't go that far. Is he dominant or submissive or in between? When he mixes with other dogs, watch his behaviour. Simply put (and there is more to it but this is the simple view of it) If he likes to play buddy, is happy to give in, and not possessive of you or his toys he'll be fine with most others. If he shows dominant and or possessive behaviours you'll need to find a pug that is more submissive. My bitch, Olivia, is dominant. Boof will give in to her although he isn't totally submissive. This is good. It means she dominates situations and he doesn't battle her over it unless it is really important to him. For example, he will give up a toy, his bed or attention from me rather than battle her. He will not give up his food though... It's rare really that a pug will. If you have a dog that would not give up a toy, or attention from an owner in the same scenario with Olivia, all hell would break lose. Pugs may not cause any damage due of their muzzle and face structure but they will fight to death in some respects.

I know I shouldn't say this but apocalypsepwnie - that first statement is a cracker and I love it! :laugh:

Make sure you look at matching temperaments. Pugs, even though they are laid back, can still be mismatched and the fights can be stressful for everyone. I'd opt to only buy from someone who allows a trial period with a full refund.

In my experience people have a pair of dogs like this for one reason and that's intimidation factor which usually comes with allowing the flexing of some muscle being signs in the dog they appreciate, then one day sadly this happens. It's not a breed bash I am speaking, it's a genetic configuration in dogs like this that people throw together to create a tough factor not unlike they did years ago with GSD's and Doberman and the breeders of these type of dogs are responsible for the tightening and targeting of Bull breeds within the BSL structure as too many are purposely bred for aggression where the aggression is in the wrong place in the dog's character for usability and stability necessary in a family pet. Are you serious with this comment! Surely not. :laugh: I'm trying very hard to look at it seriously but it's impossible. Do you honestly believe that people who own multiple dogs, which might be considered strong or large, only own the dogs to intimidate? Who or what are they intimidating and what kinds of dogs do you think they might have to accomplish this intimidation? Unfortunately, not everyone has the same vision of dogs and their uses as the people who participate in pet dog forum discussions, sad but true. In fact it reached a point in the GSD breed where breeders would actually advertise unsuitability as guard dogs to deter the clowns calling up wanting tough dogs for the wrong reasons and if you have ever bred and sold powerful breeds, GSD's Rotties, Dobes particularly, as most breeders of these would confirm that the amount of clowns seeking dogs for guarding, protection and intimidation are most definitely out there. We can be thankful that the majority of breeders of the more iconic working/protection breeds are careful in breeding A:Sound temperament and character B: Refusing to sell their dogs to clowns who intend to use them for the wrong reasons so what happens is the clowns move on to breed and supply from other breeds of strength which the American Bulldog is part of that group along with Bull breeds, Mastiff's and the like bred on unstable characters and temperament in a BYB fashion to supply the type of dog the clowns admire. The fact is that good stable dogs regardless of breed don't bite kids full stop unless they are severely tormented or abused by the kid in question. Sadly people owning dogs who have bitten kids tend to make excuses for why the dog reacted and dogs who bite randomly without torment generally do so out of fear, good stable dogs don't bite because they don't fear and don't care. Like it or not and sugar coat reactivity into something normal in a dog caused by anything other than unstable temperament and character and you have a dog likely to bite kids or anyone for that matter. Your ability to generalise and drop the populace all into one basket is quite remarkable. Sure, there are people who own large strong breeds who shouldn't. That is far different from your blanket statement of: In my experience people have a pair of dogs like this for one reason and that's intimidation factor which usually comes with allowing the flexing of some muscle being signs in the dog they appreciate, then one day sadly this happens.

I've owned 7 pugs over my life, and shared my home with many, many more temporarily. Out of the 7 I have owned, 3 were from a very young age and the others mature aged when they came to me. They all have that lovely pug temperament, look and they've all been fawn. To the outsider they might all be the same dog, but they're very, very different each and every one to me.

Monte always watched tv. He loved it. People, animals, cars, he didn't care. I have so many videos of him sitting in front of the tv watching it. He didn't rush up to it or jump at it, he just sat a reasonable distance away and watched it like a human would. He usually always barked and made snuffling sounds at it. My other pugs Boof and Olivia, completely ignore it and I can't recall a single time they ever took notice of it.

If the dog doesn't lick, don't put it on. I'd only use the collar if it is needed. I've desexed dozens of dogs and none of them licked their stitches.