~Anne~

I hope for your dogs sake that they never develop a full blown case.

Law? I wasn't aware that it was 'illegal' to not vaccinate your dog ............... I believe it is a policy of boarding kennel establishments to request current vaccination certificates and not a legal requirement? Or perhaps it is a legal requirement that they only accept vaccinated dogs? Can someone clarify.

We still do kc annually. It is too virulent not to in my opinion.

Great to hear that Harvey is still going ok. A word of advice - expect it to take many, many months to settle and many, many months for the drugs to settle. Be patient. CaseyKay, I always give Monte's meds with his food. He is obviously fed twice daily. Epi meds can make them fell queasy if not given with food. Also, I am sure Staffy-lover said that for the first time she has her dogs epilepsy under control and one thing she had changed in her routine was feeding him with his meds after receiving this advice from the neuro. SL will be able to confirm this though. Obviously with your Vets advice to keep him quiet he feels the seizures are brought on by activity???? I have never been told to restrict Monte's activity and I do not know of anyone else who is told this either. We have just come back from the Vet after having Monte's trough levels checked on both the pheno and bromide. Hopefull it is all perfect as he certainly seems much improved lately and so I am hesitant to alter anything.

I'd be curious to see if anyone is following this in Oz? We have dropped to the Sydney Vet Hospital protocol and vaccinate adult dogs every 3rd year only.

Pill splitters are available everywhere staffy-lover. I have two and one is far better than the other. With all the ADHD kids out there they have become a popular accessory! *lol* Casey - yes, that is Monte in my avatar.... he is cute isn't he!

I'm with staffy-lover on the big increase in his meds. It may be too high. Having said this though, Monte is around 8.5 kilos on any given day and he is on 90mgs per day split at 2 x 45mg doses but he will still cluster even at this dose. He is also on 350mg per day of Kbr split in two equal doses. I have a pill cutter and it makes life so much easier and the Kbr is a liquid in a pump bottle that dispenses 175mg per pump. Monte does the zoomies bit every night and chases Boof around the house like a maniac! He usually always gets a little agressive with Boof which is so out of the norm for him. After his zoomies session he crashes and you could put a bomb under him and he still wouldn't wake up!

A thought or two..... Monte clusters. He doesn't have just one seizure (he did tho' for the first time ever about 1 month ago.) If he has any other seizure-like activity it will be a focal only if it isn't a cluster of grand mals. The point I want to make is that there is apparently no correlation between dosing Pb and the timing of seizures. The neurologist that both staffy-lover and myself have been to with our dogs said this to me because I did exactly as you have been advised by your vet. I split Monte's dose so that the dose in the evening of Pb was higher then the dose in the a.m. because Monte always (90% of the time anyway) has his seizures in the middle of the night or early hours of the morning. She told me that this was not the best thing to do and would not be affective anyway. She did explain a little why but the info went beyond me at the time. She put his dose back to an even split but upped the Pb. Monte is also on Kbr. There is another drug that may be of assistance (and it has escaped my brain for a while....... sorry I am in holiday mode) I am unable to put Monte on it as it has to be given every 8 hours and as we all work long office hours we are not always able to dose during the day. Perhaps though this would be suitable for you tho'? Ooops... as I was typing I remembered the name - it is called Keppra and apparently is quite good and has less problems associated with it then Kbr.

Yes it might be worth a go. Georgina changed us from oral valium to rectal and also suggested giving more pheno if needed but we haven't tried the additional pheno, just the rectal valium.

Yes, we already do this but we administer rectal valium instead of his usual meds. The valium can be given twice to try and control it. If we didn't give him this I would assume he would have more then 5 or 6.

Yes, I know what you mean. It does seem like forever. When Monte clusters though is does go on for ever and ever. He has a seizure, runs manic, has a seizure, runs manic and this will go on for 5 or 6 seizures in a row. The time in between each seizure is getting shorter too which is a huge worry. It used to take between 60 - 80 minutes for him to have a cluster of 6.... now he does it within 40 - 60 minutes which means he is closer to going into status.

Monte drops his tail a lot but that is becuase of his medication for his epilepsy which results in him suffering from weakness in the hind legs (ataxia). He is not in any pain though and is quite happy. Could she perhaps have some nerve damage or similar??? This could be causing her tail to droop. I know you have been through a lot recently and it has been very costly but would a second opinion help? I am not sure where you are but I could recommend some great Vets who you could possible negotiate with when it comes to finances. Another thing that comes to mind is her age. At 10 years of age it would not be against thinking to keep her on the cortisone or a similar drug if this keeps her more comfortable. As an aged Pug that has had a rough life she may only have up to 4 more years at best (sorry if this sounds harsh) and so being on cortisone for this time will not be a problem as she is already coming to the end of her time. If you make the decision to give her her wings don't feel bad. You have loved her and given her your utmost by all appearances and that is all any little Pug wants. I wish you both well.

From what has been described to me (by both human epileptics, other people with epi dogs and Vets) the blood sugar levels are sapped during the seizure and sugar is an instant fix. I give Monte the jam to help his energy levels during his recovery. During his post ictal phase I usually hold him and stroke him to stop him crashing into things. He also runs around frantic as if blind and he does this in between each seizure during a cluster as well. It usually lasts anywhere from 2 -3 minutes to around 10 minutes. Usually he will allow me to hold him. Sometimes I will put him back down for a short time and then pick him back up again. Being a small dog this is easy for me but it would be much harder with a larger breed. He also goes to the toilet in between the seizures in a cluster but not during the seizure.

Apart from 2 focals, we have been virtually 'seizure free' for the last 4 months!! Monte also has varying post-ictal behaviour but more often then not he is manic in between each grand mal and very restless but tired after them all. Monte drinks some water and I always give him a little jam on bread after seizure activity to help with his energy. Another epi list I am on advises to give them some ice cream................. I am lucky with Monte as he drools but it is not over the top excessive. He doesn't urinate or defecate either which many dogs do during a seizure. Staffy-lover, it must be a huge relief for you to finally have the seizures under some kind of control now after all this time.

I am also a little surprised the Vet hasn't recommended splitting the dose. How is he Varicool? I hope all is well. If he is still on only one dose I would suggest the evening to administer. I would, at a guess, say that most epis experience seizure activity in the wee hours of the morn or late at night. That's not to say they won't have them at other times but most seem to be in the pm.

He should be fine if it is only a low dose. Higher doses of pheno will affect him though.

Glad to see it is nothing more serious. Epilepsy is a condition they can live with at least. Has the Vet prescribed the Pheno over 2 daily doses? It is really, really important it is given 12 hours apart and at the same time every day. I medicate Monte at 5.30am and 5.30pm. There is a leeway of around 30 minutes or so and I must admit to having been late on the evening dose on the odd occassion by up to an hour and a half which is not good. It is very, very difficult though to live your life to the exact same time every day of the year for years on end. On weekends I medicate him and then go back to bed for a while. During the week I stay up once he has been done. The reality is that my alarm is set for 5.30am 365 days a year. No sleep-ins ever. I can't just take off overnight either without having someone staying at my home who is prepared to get up at 5.30am. I have chosen this time as it suits my workday.... and I can't just suddenly change it at every whim *grimace* It is also important that you asses his meals. He is best being given the medication with food. He may also experience some nausea from it, increased thirst (which also means increase in urine output... this is something that needs looking at if he sleeps inside at night), some weakness in the hind legs (usually on higher doses...aka ataxia), lethargy, increased appetite and a slight change in personality. Most of this will settle after a few months. Be patient. It takes a long time to sort the medication out and a long time for it to settle in their system.

It certainly looks like seizure activity to me. Although his paddling is not obvious it certainly is there as well so I would say he is having a tonic/clonic or gand mal seizure. I couldn't tell if he was vocalising as my daughter has stolen my speakers for her ipod *rolls eyes*. Blood tests would rule out any problems with certain conditions that cause seizures but if it is epilepsy the tests will come back clear and you will still be wondering. Unfortuneately the condition is still very much a mystery. Monte actually becomes very restless after his seizures and will pace the floor for an hour or more after the seizures have subsided. Perhpas the Vet will start you on Phenobarbitone now? I may not see your response if you post after tonight as I am travelling up north for a week and will not have internet access during this time. Good luck - *hugs* to you both.

Wow, thanks Rappie! I thought it had all but been eliminated. Could I ask a favour of you to supply some details on what we should look out for. As I said, it has been many, many years since I have seen it and I never saw it during my time nursing. I hate to pick up a rescue that may have it.

Thanks. I wasn't sure. When I was in Vet Nursing I never, ever saw a case of distemper and I haven't heard of any dog having it for at least 25 years.

Is distemper still on the horizon in Australia? I've seen several die of it when I was younger and the symptoms are very similar to what you described. Many people would never have seen a dog with distemper I guess, particularly if they are under about 35 years of age.

Hi Paul, I have used use Epibrom in the past but am currently using Bromapex liquid. My vets don't keep this sort of drug in stock usually either and I usually always pre-warn them. It only takes a few days and they have it in.

Always best to discuss with your Vet but as a general rule dogs are not usually put onto medication if the seizures are infrequent and or only focal. It is something that needs to be weighed up once you have all of the appropriate advice as the drugs used to control seizures have their drawbacks. In my dog's case, we have no choice but to medicate as his seizures are severe and he has a good chance of dying from them. He probably still will anyway as they are only partially controlled with his medication. He is now closer to 5 years then 4 and is still going strong so I am hopeful he will live to a ripe old age.

Monte can sometimes have the strangest of seizures. Some of them are what are referred to as focal seizures. A focal is when only a portion of the brain is affected by the seizure. The results can range from anything from staring into space for a few seconds or minutes to snapping at mysterious flys. The ones I have witnessed make Monte appear to be gagging or choking. He will sometimes fall down and roll over but more often will just stagger like he is drunk. These always happen when he is eating. Literally within seconds he is eating again as if nothing happend and I sit there and think "Did I just see that?" They can be really scary though. I hope you are able to film it and get the episode assesed.

I think you are far too sensitive to what is written in these threads. You have jumped on one or two bits from my post and then decided they were aimed at you. And then this could make me think you are now being paranoid. I mean this in a nice way. Not every comment that everyone makes after you post a comment is referring to you or anything that you have written. Some threads may end up with a dozen or more sideline conversations. Most people tend to pick up only on certain points in a thread... which is what I did. Raz used snake bites as an example as that is what came to mind for her because she has experienced this scenario personally. I happen to have experienced exposure to dogs that have seizures due to being given drugs. Simple. No devious intentions. The idea of drugs being given to dogs and causing epilepsy shocked me senseless when I first became aware of it so it is something that sticks in mind. I can't imagine why you even think I was referring to anyone here giving their dogs drugs. Secondly, I was trying to give a wide variety of possible causes for epilepsy and so I used as many examples that came to my head to show how varied the causes for the condition are. Hopefully this can be put to bed now as it is causing the thread to go off topic. I am sorry that you feel my comments somehow maligned you but I also believe that you are creating a debate over nothing. The written word is not always easy to interpret. I suggest that before you jump next time you ask for clarification on the comments made.