~Anne~

Well done monsterpup. We know who to go to for advice soon I'd love to do some of these courses including this one but the rescues keep me a pauper. It is just not in my scope for a long while.

I'm beginning to also suspect a difference in the absorbiton of liquid bromide vs tablets. For those with epi's on bromide, who gives a liquid form and who gives tablets? Have you ever noticed a difference in seizure control or absorbtion if you have switched between the two?

Good news! Monte is very much improved I am so relieved that my gorgeous teddy bear is back on the road to recovery. We have confirmation that is was bromide toxicity (aka as an overdose of bromide). The levels had built up in his system over the past 8 months. His last levels were done in January and all was well (he was on the lower end of the sale for both Pb and Kbr) so something between then and now caused it to change. Georgina, his neurologist, has suggested a new drug regime and we will be trialling this.

Hi staffy-lover, I am calling Dr Childs today to discuss his meds and what is happening. We have taken him off the bromide as it appears it could possibly be bromide toxicity. I am still researching the new kibble to see if it could be this. I have ruled out almost everything else. It could be that the new food is lower in salt then the previous kibble and this means that the bromide is absorbed more by this system but as kibble is not his main food I am unsure of just how much this would affect him. The scope showed that while his ospehagus was dilated it was only a little and not enough to be magaesophagus. He is back home but still not well.

While in my search for answers to Monte's problems I have come across a canine epilepsy forum that others may wish to join. This is not to be confused with the epi list. One is canine-epilepsy.com and one is canine-epilepsy.net Canine Epilepsy Forum

Could the aggression be put down to dementia??? Edited: Sorry, I just realised that dogsbesotted already said this above.

Thanks. Monte is still in hosptial. His blood work (not for his levels but the normal bloodwork) showed his electrolytes are out and his potassium levels ( I think it was postassium)[EDITED: It was his chloride levels] is at a dangerously high level. Xrays have shown that there appears to be a problem in his esophagus. They are thinking there are two issues. One being the esophagus and th eother (I am praying it isn't) is a neurological disorder. His ataxia and uncorodinated movemnets come and go throughout the day it appears and this is what is concerning them. His blood work is also a mystery and we can find no reason for the high levels. If they can't reduce them he could ultimately go into a coma and die. Having said that though he is apparently all bright and chirpy this morning. They are knocking him out to scope him and will do some more bloodwork today. His liver enzymes were slightly elevated but nothing out of the ordinary for a dog on Pb. His blood work for his Pb and Kbr levels will not come back for another day or so. Yes, Monte is on both Pb and Kbr. His ataxia is really bad at the moment (as above) but we are not sure why or if it is drug related. My Vets do not think it is as he has been on the same doseage since he saw Georgina late last year and after the intial settling in period he was fine. The ataxia is sad in a Pug as their little tail doesn't curl properly either and a Pug whose tail hangs is a very, very sad Pug usually. Obviously this is not the case with Monte but it is still sad to see.

They are doing his levels today. I haven't changed his food at all so I am not sure what this is all about. The only thing that is different is the addition of fish oil caps in the last few months. Yes. Expensive though but comforting to know they are there 24 hours a day.

Not sure of this is epilepsy related but it may have some link to Monte's meds os I thought I would post here. We had to dash with him to the emergency care Vet yesterday. He had fluid coming out through his nostrils and this was making it difficult for him to breathe. There doesn't appear to be anything on his lungs so they have ruled out any thing like pneumonia. Over the last few weeks he has been showing progressive signs on an increase in ataxia and clumsiness. This morning, when we picked him up to tranfer him to his normal Vet he looked like he had been overdosed. The emergency Vet says they gave the correct dose so it could be all linked. He was very uncoordinated and very sleepy. They are running tests on him now. I am a worrier and I can't stop worrying about my Monte Bear.

Cool, near me then?! If you don't mind pm me where... I'll undertsand if you don't want to.

You may not have said that vaccinations cause epilepsy here in those exact words but you have said it before. In fact EVERY thread where someone mentions epilpesy you talk about vaccinations and ceasing them. What you actually said and which I STRONGLY object to is; Don't let him have any more vaccinations - not good for epilepsy sufferers or any dog with neurological or auto-immune problems. Yes, I saw that. Interesting. Thanks. I'll look into it. I'd like to discuss this with my Vet as it sounds like it could be something that makes sense. I don't medicate with heartworm preventatives monthly during Winter. I drop it to every 2nd month. Although this is not on advice form anyone... just my own thoughts on it all.

I read it and took your advice months ago. I just put the capsule in his dinner. Being a pig he just scoffs it all. I don't even know if he realises it is there. My ex give his Viszlas fish oil caps as well but he just hands it to them and they eat them. One chews them up and the other seems to just swallow them.

Congratulations on your new position Rappie. Still Sydney metro? Goodnews on the vaccinations. Can you advise what the new protocol will be?

I have no idea if it coincidence or not. I think I already posted saying that I do believe that we are overdosing our dogs on vaccinations and I also stated that I have ceased the yearly h/w vaccine as I do think there is a risk but, again, this is different to saying not to vaccinate at all or not togive heartworm preventatives at all. *shrugs* I don't think a newbie should be given the advice to stop vaccinating their dog.

Sadly no. He is going through a quiet stage with them however but this stage started in January and the fish oil only started 3 or 4 months ago. His cycles regularly change and thi sis not the first time we have gone through a relatively calm period.

There is a difference though WSM saying that they can 'possibly' cause them to saying "they DO cause them so don't vaccinate your dog anymore' which is what Morgan originally said. If vaccinations cause epilepsy, why is the average age of onset of convulsions 2 years? A dog commences vaccinations at 6 weeks.

staffy-lover put me onto fish oil after the Nuero suggested it to her. I can't say it has stopped Monte's seizures though. He has been on them for about 4 months now give or take. Edited to add: Varicool, Monte weighs about 9kg and I give him one capsule a day... I don't know off-hand what the strength is though. They are 'Nature's Own' brand that you can purchase almost any where.

Kind of funny that I live and breathe epilpesy as do a couple of others like staffy-lover, I read about, research it, live with it, continually talk to people around the world about it, talk to my vets, other vets and a specialist veterinarian who has even published studies and findings on canine epilepsy and yet no-one apart from you has ever said that vaccinating dogs causes epilpesy and that vaccinations should be ceased.

Hi, I also give Monte fish oil tabs after staffy-lover suggested it to me. My guy is small (he's a Pug and weighs about 9 kilos) so I hold him as much as I can during each seizure as he runs manic too when he clusters. He bumps into things and I worry about his heart and heat so I tend to try and hold him when he finishes each seizure... this is not always easy to do though as he really wants ot pace around like a crazy dog. I feed Monte the following (not all at once obviously though); sardines (in water) beef mince chicken mince eggs pet milk (mixed with water) veges (just about everything but I limit potatoes) yoghurt (low fat) Royal Canin kibble (smal handful once a day) Nature's Gift canned food sometimes I can't feed him raw bones as he chokes on them. He will eat anything though and his whole life revolves around food. The meds make him even hungrier. Staffy-lover and I have the same Neuro for our dogs. It is a shame you are not in Sydney as she is great. I agree with the comment on it being heartbreaking. I love my guy to death and I hate watching him go through this time and time again. Vaccinations; There is some evidence that Pro-heart 6 caused seizures in a small number of dogs. I have decided, after many months of research, to cease the annual injection. I now give the preventative orally every month and I ease up during Winter. I also now only vaccinate every three years. It has now been 2 years since their last vaccs and I will titre test I think before they are due for th enext vaccination in 12 months or so. While I do NOT beleive that vaccinating dogs causes epilepsy, I do believe that evidence is clear that we over vaccinate and the the Pro-heart 6 and 12 causes some adverse reactions that I don't want to risk when there is a perfectly good alternative in the monthly preventative. Why have 12 months worth in their system when you can have only 1 month worth... particularly if something goes wrong. Doseage - I think if it needs to be upped then do it. Sadly, it is not easy watching them go through the adjustment and Monte does suffer side affect but all in all he is happy. Without the meds at the levels they are he would die. When and if it ever gets to the point where he is not happy then I will re-asses.

CRAP! Ignore Morgan, she has a 'thing' about vaccinations in humans and dogs.

Maybe put the question to the epi list?? With Monte's condition being as chronic as it is I would never consider experimenting and prefer the traditonal methods but that is no to say that other methods wouldn't be suitable for you though.

Hi, Sorry to hear avout the tine you are having with your little one. As frufru said, I too have a dog that clusters. His max has been 10 and he averages around 5 - 6 per cluster over a 45 - 60 minute period. We also give valium but we give it rectally as it can be difficult to give an injection to a dog convulsing. Monte is on pheno and bromide. At the moment we are just over 30 days seizure free and this year has been a good one for us. This has happend before though so we are very timid about rejoicing just yet. A few questions and suggestions. *What state/suburb are you in? *Has your vet taken bloods to check his trough levels? What were they? *Has your vet ruled out all other possibilites for the seizures? Seizures can be a sign of another illness or disease. *The valium dose can be repeated if he doesn't stop. It is important you stop the cluster as he could easily go into status. Valium is relatively harmless and it is not easy to overdose. *It is vitally important you keep him cool during the cluster. His temp will rise dramatically during the convulsions. Use ice packs or put on the air con (no matter how cold you are). After the cluster, give him a little something to eat as his sugar levels will be low and he will be exhausted. It is like running 10 marathons at once. I give a little bit of bread with jam usually. *Be patient. The meds take months to sort out and to get the correct levels. The trough levels will tell you if you can 'up' the meds more. *Reduce or eliminate sodium from his diet as this will effect the absorbtion of the drugs. *Reduce or eliminate grains, preservatives and carbs from his diet. *Feed raw or natural where possible. *Give his meds with food to help prevent nausea and to assist with absorbtion. *His meds MUST be given EVERY 12 HOURS PRECISELY. There is no swaying on this. If they are not given ever 12 hours precisely you will risk the levels dropping in his system of the PB and he will start having seizures. *A third drug can be added if you are able to stick to an 8 hourly regimine but it is not overly common in Aust. I have also heard of a new drug that has recently been introduced in the US and will be made available here in given time too. *Accept that the best you can do is manage the condition. Some dogs, no matter what you do will still have seizures but you can slow and reduce them. The drugs given are not a cure but are used to manage the seizures only. Most assume the drugs will stop them and, if they do, great but in many cases it only slows the frequency, number and severity of the seizures.

Aural = of the ear Heama = blood ................ not sure what 'toma' means. Damage to blood vessels that causes blood to collect in the pinna or layers of the outer ear flap.

The bile is only because the stomach is empty. If the dog is not showing any other symptoms and is not still vomitting it might make it hard for the Vet to diagnose anything. It might be best having it checked regardless though even just for your piece of mind.

Why were his meds reduced? Usually they will not recommend reducing meds unless the dog has been seizure free for a minimum of 12 months. Monte has been only having single seizures lately which is great. The bad thing is that I am now worried about Pb toxicity. His ataxia is really bad at times. So much so that just recently I purposely reduced his meds for 2 days to drop the levels in his system. His seizure control is better on the high med regime as the single seizures prove but I am torn between control and the side effects he has to endure.