~Anne~

Wow, you must have done it at a bad time. The last time I converted AUD - USD it was almost equal. ie $65 American would have equated to around $70 Australian. We are still currently sitting at around the 91c to the American dollar. It can take up to 3 months before any improvement is noticed when an allergen is removed (ie food soruce or whatever). The last girl we had on an elim diet took about 2 month beofre we noticed a big improvement. I would say we saw small noticeable changes within about 3 weeks (edited - meant to weeks, not months) Working out allergies takes patience and persistance.

You're weird I know. But having a tanty every now and then makes you feel good. So, if you report yourself, do you get a warning? Yes, if I it warrants it.

They were surrendered, not seized. Perhpas seized intially, but it appears the puppy farmers decided not to fight it.

Seems recommended then by many. I might have to go and wander Dymocks to see if they have it in.

You're weird I know. ;) But having a tanty every now and then makes you feel good.

I've used it and I have had it used against me many times. I have also reported myself.... usually with a "but if they didn't...." which is then kind of pointless.

Yes, and that is how they foster the kittens as well. They are sent out to carers and are brought back in for desexing. Sometimes they are then sent back out with carers, usually different ones, as the original ones will have taken on board new infants.

How sad. I'd be seriously determinign the genes on this one. While it is naturally occuring in a brachy breed, the likelihood of it occurring is obviously dramatically increased if one or both parents suffer from this or if it features strongly in the lines. What was the actual deformity? Was it extensively narrow or weak??? Many can have surgery to correct but I guessthese guys must have been too badly affected. To be diagnosed at such a young age with such severity of the condition is quite alarming to be honest.

I have never found the staff to be lacking in compassion. Sometimes they are helpless with it, but that also happens in Vet nursing and any other industry where you see animals suffer all the time. You simply have to overlook it at times to remain sane.

The bottom line is - don't post anything that you know will arouse responses. Most learn to keep their rubbish in their own backyards....sadly. In rescue it is noticed more as it means that unsafe practices, unethical practices and sheer stupidity is swept under the carpet.

Me too, and I do it on the advice from my Vet. The only danger is that if you then are late several times in a row, your dog has a much higher risk of getting heartworm than a dog on a 4 week cycle.

Who cares what he is. He's a cross bred and knwoing what went into his cross will not make you any the wiser about him in all reality. Just love him as he is. A brindle coloured, cross bred, young male dog.

Just wait till you hear a Pug x described as a mini mastiff x.................................

In the paper today there is a story that Blacktown Councillors have now also voted down using free range eggs for their catering. Shame Blacktown Council, shame. You are one of the RARE Western Sydney Councils who still use caged hen eggs, and all to save a few dollars. Your record for animal welfare is appalling! At the same time, the Mayor has the hide to whinge about not getting more state money to encourage more people to build business in the area. Maybe you start working at ground level and look at what your community wants first.

I've just finsihed reading the rest of the posts. Mantis - if you are including me in your statement about 'Pug owners stating their should be controls on owning large breed dogs', you also have taken my comments completely out of context. I am always amazed at the ability of some to take bits and pieces of posts and put them together to come up with a complete different thing. All I can say is, learn to look at the bigger picture. Most people make several posts putting their thoughts across, why is it that some are determined to only focus on a statement here or a statement there instead of looking at all of the statements made in context? To help those who have done this, I have collated a heap of my statements made in this thread so that you can see many together and perhaps not just focus on one that you choose deliberately or accidently to take out of context; *I do not agree that we should exstinguish any breed, nor do I believe that dogs who have never displayed aggression in any form should be seized, caged, removed from loving homes or euthanased. *There should be restrictions placed on the ownership of some breeds. This not only should apply to large and powerful breeds but working breeds kept in suburbia and others who likewise are owned and handled by people in conditions that the breed is not suitable for. *To be honest, I think the greater majority of people in this thread are on the same side. We just view the debate from different angles. I doubt there are many here that feel the APBT or other bull breeds should be banned and treated with the fear they currently do. The idea that innocent family and much loved pets are dragged from their homes, caged and then killed horrifies me as I am sure it does many, many, many others. DOL and the debates I have been involved in and watched on the sidelines, has taught me that legislation IS NOT the answer. Blanket bans are useless, cruel and stupid. Education and control in my views are the key. *Controls on ownership, socialisation, training and knowledge. By the way, I beleive there is a difference in controls and 'restrictions'. *Controls could mean anything from reinforcing some of the existing legislation such as microchipping and registered animals to control on what breeding means and implies. While the focus of much of my disucssion has been on large or powerful breeds, this is simply because of the subject of this thread and the subsequent discussions.

I'll preface by saying - my use of the word 'certain breeds' has been taken in the wrong way. When I say 'certain breeds' I am not distingusihing between powerful , large, small or hairy. You have automatically taken it that I am referring to only large and powerful breeds. There is nothing wrong with Maremmas lilli. However, my lifestyle and living conditions are not adequate for them, nor do I have any real knowledge of them or their requirements apart from my discussions with Julie. A dog, that is designed to keep watch over herds and largely live in open fields should never be kept within closed walls in a 6m x 6m backyard by an owner who does not know anything about the needs of the breed. The dog in this instance, living with me in a townhouse in western sydney with my lifestyle, would suffer. That suffering leads to problems with behaviour and leads to ill health. My use of the words 'certain' was incorrect in this context and I can see how you have mistaken what I was meaning as I said above. I was also thinking of Pugs. Pugs require a certain type of care, they are not the dog for everyone. If a person understands the care they need, and the environment they need to live in, things go well. When a Pug is not cared for, due to ignorance and a lack of what is needed, the dog suffers. In this case, the suffering can end in death. I mean seriously. Instead of flying off half cocked, why not look at all of my posts and put them into context, instead of focussing on one. I accept your narkiness only for the fact that I can see I should have worded my post a little better . Yes, there are breeds that are so much easier to look after than a Pug. I don't believe just any dick or harry should be entitled to own a Pug or any dog. As I said lilli - controls and education. We have some controls in place, but they are not effective, not enforced and not enough. As it stands, ANYONE can own ANY DOG, and keep it in ANY SITUATION regardless. Not just big dogs - any dog. For the record, I have no predjudice against any breed any more than any other dog lover. I actually have owned Wemieraners, Labs and GSDs as well as Pugs. I like certain breeds, I dislike others. That's normal.

Everyone who chooses to own an animal. Controls could mean anything from reinforcing some of the existing legislation such as microchipping and registered animals to control on what breeding means and implies. I also believe that there should be controls on the ownership of certain breeds. For example, I live in a townhouse and have scant knowledge of, let's say, Maremmas. I should not be able to purchase and own one unless I can meet it's needs and demonstarte an understanding and knowledge of that breed. Controls in their own will not suffice though. My statement was; controls AND education.

Control - how so? Controls on ownership, socialisation, training and knowledge. By the way, I beleive there is a difference in controls and 'restrictions'.

The employees working at the Pound should look at it from a positive point of view, albeit I understand that is hard to do. They must keep uppermost in their mind that no-one is blaming them. They are paid a pittance for a very hard job, and the resources and conditions they are forced to work under are a disgrace. Blacktown Council need to step up to the plate and pour more resources into the pound and assess current practices and policies. Perhaps if the pound workers also added their voices it would have more impact though? Everyone needs to stand up and be counted so that we resolve the issues. No-one should be blaming the actual pound or it's employees, they are merely underpaid public servants doing what they can with the resources they have.

Just had to address this bit, I don't recall anyone saying that mistreatment or lack of socialisation and training won't affect the dog, it's just that it's reaction will not necessarily be agressive, it might react submissively or with anxiety in certain situations but it wont necessarily become agression. This is what genetics and selective breeding is about, it's not just about deciding whether a dog will react to a certain situation it's about determining (and predicting) how the dog will react to a certain situation. A dog bred to herd sheep upon seeing sheep for the first time can find itself acting out herding behaviours, it may not know what it is doing or where it is herding them but it is reacting to the sheep in a way which it has been genetically predisposed to react. That your dog's ancestors never displayed the fear agression that yours does may simply be due to the lack of the appropriate triggers, which is where environment comes in. However if your dog had a different genetic makeup it's possible his reaction to those same triggers may have been entirely different, perhaps instead of agression you might see him showing excessive obesiance to other dogs, perhaps he might run from other dogs, or he might display a combination of behaviours, all of these are reactions the nature of which is determined by the genetic predisposition of the animal. Great post. Thanks. I think you're missing the point of what people are saying a little. No one would argue that behaviour problems are not created by poor training/socialisation etc etc. Of course they can be. What they are saying, is that the path the dog takes in relation to the 'mistake' the Owner makes, is mostly decided by genetics. So Dog A that is poorly socialised might still end up absolutely fine and bomb proof. Dog B might end up a basket case. It was the same mistake and the same environment, but the response from the dog is primarily genetic. Yes, exactly. To be honest, I think the greater majority of people in this thread are on the same side. We just view the debate from different angles. I doubt there are many here that feel the APBT or other bull breeds should be banned and treated with the fear they currently do. The idea that innocent family and much loved pets are dragged from their homes, caged and then killed horrifies me as I am sure it does many, many, many others. DOL and the debates I have been involved in and watched on the sidelines, has taught me that legislation IS NOT the answer. Blanket bans are useless, cruel and stupid. Education and control in my views are the key.

Why would you need the tets re-done?? Is it the same clinic? Regardless of which clinic, the Vet MUST have records of the consults and what the results of the test were. Tell your Vet you insist they wirte the referral. It is illogical that they want to see the dog yet again before writing the referrla when they have already seen him.

Because if you didn't put importance on those things you would be seen as a negligent dog owner. It is also an argument used by some people against breed specific legislation, so there is an ulterior motive. But those of us who have closely observed and documented the behaviour of dozens of dogs, can see that the genetic factors are the really important thing. Huski, you constantly use your own dogs as examples. Your husky acts like a husky and your beagle acts like a beagle. They are a product of their genetics, they are very influenced by your own mood and body language and possible experience has taught them that it is beneficial to react in a certain way to certain threats and challenges, because it has worked before. You are to be applauded for the effort you put into training them, but if you had chosen a whippet or a pug instead of a husky, you would not have to do the same socialisation and training, and you would not see the same sort of aggression. That may not be fair that some dog owners don't have to put as much effort in as others to have their dog behaving in a way that is acceptable, but it is true. Those who are seeking to overturn legislation on the false basis that environment plays a bigger part than genetics are doomed to fail. Great post. Umm, what issue where? I think you have gone off on your own little tangent and assume things that are not true or real to be honest. Wow, again I'll applaud you on a very ridiculous post. It is so filled with assumptions and stupidity I can do no more than laugh. I am sitting trying to figure out what exactly you are actually saying. I'll start, and finish, with the fact that you have wrongly assumed my knowledge level, my stand on BSL and other animal welfare issues including purebred dog breeding, my past and present support of the EDBA, the MDBA and my beliefs regarding current, future and past legislation. I think you need to pull your head in and find another tree to bark up 'cause you've got the wrong one here. I don't think it is hypocritical to place an importance on raising, socialising and training our dogs so they do not develop any behaviourial problems (not just aggression). I have lost count of the number of dogs I have met whose owners bought them because 'x' breed is a great family dog yet the dog has xyz behaviourial problems - not because of it's breed or genetics but simply because the owners have failed to raise and train it appropriately. It is vital to choose a breed that is suitable for your lifestyle, and to go to a good breeder to ensure you are getting the best chance you can to have a healthy dog with a good stable temperament but very few dogs will automatically grow into a perfect, well adjusted adult if we don't raise and train them accordingly. Whilst I am a huge advocate for the purebred dog, we do not want owners to become complacent about properly raising and training their dog because it's 'x' breed and should just automatically be a well behaved dog. Totally agree with your post except you are either deliberately misreading what I am saying regarding hypocrisy or I am not explaining myself well. Greymate and others seem to understand what I am saying though without any problems. To me it is simple. Don't play the illogical or weak argument and whilst no-one should be emphasising negatives, to completely disregard facts in the debate will see the debate lost for ever.

And it is that attitude, whether you mean it humorously or semi-seriously or not, that will sink everyone. I have Pugs so I don't care if they ban all those "big powerful nasty dogs that are born vicious" Oh no, now the law makers have decided my "hideously deformed Pugs" need to be banned too. What's that old saying about hanging together or we'll surely hang separately? THAT IS UTTER DAMN CRAP! We each CHOOSE the breed that suits us and our lifestyles. Some of us are small dog lovers, some love the samrt ones, some love the long haired and some love the short haired. I love the Pug becuase of its friendly and gorgeous nature. PERIOD! For you to even insinuate that people who prefer docile, small or less powerful dogs are causing BSL to grow is pathetic. Your post has to be the most stupid and ill thought out post I have read in a long time on here. You talk of someone who prefers a Pug as causing a divide in the dog world when your post is what causes divide.

Yes. The veterinary dermatologist that lectured us at vet school reckoned that allergies occur in dogs, in descending order from very common to rare, were: Flea saliva allergy Atopy (allergy to inhaled or absorbed allergens) Food allergy Contact allergy From what I've seen in practice so far, that definitely seems about right to me. He also noted that dogs with one type of allergy were far more likely than your average dog to develop a second type as well. Yes, I agree. Hence why I hate the commercial food vs raw/barf. The itchy skin and allergies is commonly used as a reason for people not to feed commercial when it simply isn;t true. This debate then seemed to extend to mainly kibble and the number of times I have read people stating that the grains in kibble cause itchy skin is too many in number to even think about.

Every dog, cat and human even is BORN with certain behaviour traits. The experiences they have will help shape how those behaviour traits manifest as well. However, they are born with them. We argue this when we advise people to buy purebred dogs. Buy a Cavvie, they're family friendly. Buy a Pug, they're non aggressive. Buy a Maremma, they're fabulous guard dogs. Buy a Border Collie, they're great at herding. We state "Buy a purebred and you know what you are getting!" We tell people that we can determine the temperament, the look, the longevity and the diseases, purely by the breed. And yet we argue on the other hand that there are any breeds that have character traits that can lead to aggression. Come on. Lets not be hypocritical. We can't say this when we want someone to buy a purebred but then ignore it when it comes to thses issues. A pug, who is abused, may develop behaviour traits that need to be managed but there is less liklihood that the behaviour that unfolds will be aggression related. In all of the Pugs that come though my home, some who came from abusive backgrounds, I only ever had ONE that showed DA and I have never, ever, ever, ever had one that showed any HA. I am not saying that the Pug is perfect, but it is at the total opposite end of the spectrum of many large powerful breeds. Aggression is NOT a trait of the Pug. It does happen, but it is rare. There are many breeds where aggression is more common. It is a breed trait. I don't care which way you want to argue it.