~Anne~

Sounds like she may have done a little damage to the throat or still has some of the shoe bits caught there somewhere. I'd be inclined to take her to the Vet to have it checked out.

Good dog, get over it people. Who cares who sneaks dogs into hotel rooms. I mean seriously. :rolleyes: LukeW - where the hell is that horse pic of yours when you need it. :D

Wild animals, or any animals for that matter, do not belong in circuses and should not be taught to perform stupid and meaningless tricks by handlers for the amusement of the masses. Let animals be animals.

Angela, I am still thinking of how hard this must be for you. Crystal was very much loved and this is so very obvious in your tribute. *hugs* to you.

Kate was the daughter of the Freedom family. Peter was the father. He was killed in an accident a few years ago. 2? 3? Her DOL name was Kate - something or other. It may have been before your time (although I woudn't have thought so) but she was a member here for some time Ask an older member, or ask Troy. I couldn't be bothered posting lies. The point was that although Kate was on this forum, and posted, I know little about Freedom - but I know quite a lot about some other puppy farms, and they are what I based my comments on. Edit Just remembered her DOL name - Staceycate I think. Probably been banned as every time she posted she got abused! To be honest, I don't take as much notice as I should so I don't recall her. Settle Jed, no-one is saying you post lies normally, or are in this instance. People question because they like to know answers, being questioned doesn't equate to not believing.

The daughter apparently rebranded and they are still going. Maybe she is Kate? Yes, could be. I was thinking of Kate, the Vet, who lives in NSW and produces oodles of varying description.

Kate wasn't from Freedom. Freedom was owned by a family, and the head honcho was a man by the name of Peter... (and I can't recall his surname).

And that is the issue with RSPCA.

I like buzz words. One person uses a word or phrase and then everybody uses that word or phrase until it becomes so overused it has lost defnition and people cease to use it in the correct sense. I can't think of one off hand...but there have been many on this forum over the years. It's like catch words and phrases in business that are overused.

Yes. No, costs are high, there is a sales budget, without pet shops, the budget would not be met. Does anyone have any idea how many pups are sold in pet shops during a week? Puppy farms only sell at the farm gate and via the net for "cream" sales - they might sell the litter for $300 each, but ask $1000 over the net. But they cannot move that number of pups over the net. They rely on the pups being visible in major shoppng centres with foot traffic of 50,000 or so Really? (Genuine question) Where does your knowledge come from? I've always been of the opinion that they can and do move hundreds over a period of time. I would guesstimate that a high profile puppy farm would sell a minimum of 150 dogs a month through the net on a good month. I think stopping the sale of puppies in pet shops would dampen the sales of some, but increase others.

That sounds like me. I have dyslexic fingers and a brain that doesn't concentrate well. Consequently, I either give up in despair or I edit my posts a million times correcting them! Even on FB I will delete and then re-type to correct a mistake because I make them so frequently!

Oh come on now, it was about the advice advise thing, not intended to be nasty at all. They are words that pop up every single day in every forum. No different to the annoying oodle threads. Sorry you feel so sensitive about it, as hurting peoples feelings was not my intention and if you are really hurt I apologise. I suppose everyone has a different view on things. Psst, I was responding to Teebs who said she was offended. I wasn't offended, but I can see that the thread was offensive. When I said "taken note of the comments of a few of you" I meant pugger, steve and teebs (ie those who have expressed their dismay at the thread).

Yes, I have taken note of the comments by a few of you... and I agree. It is poor taste, hence why I stopped. My apologies to those offended.

I know exactly what you mean HeavyPaws - and have experienced too many times in the last 12 months :D I do not believe in God, but am a very spiritual person. Im more of a Pagan, Mother Nature type person. I believe that dogs and all animals have a soul, to me it has never been a maybe or could be thing. Just a given! I dont understand how some dont believe - and I dont mean that in a patronising way, but a genuine non understanding way. But I guess they feel the same about me believing. Perhaps someone could explain "how" they dont believe animals dont have a soul??? And no, Im not being a smartarse, just curious!I get how black and white it is from my point of view and would like to see it from the other side... I did explain (or so I thought) above. Just as it is hard I would think fo rme to grasp your concept of why, I expect that you will find it hard to grasp mine...but I'll give it another try. I view a living creature/being as being alive. I view a dead creature/being as being dead. I believe that while a person (or animal) is living, their heart is beating, their brain is developing and electrical impulses are darting about, their skin is pink from oxgen, their blood pulses through their veins. All the things you'd also believe in. The difference is though when they die, the body begins to break down and will eventually distengrate. The brain does the same. The fluid drains away. The electrical impulses cease. The oxygen is not pumped around. End of story. I've lost both my parents and countless animals, other relatives, friends and associates. The only reason they live on is because my memory still contains snippets of them. The pictures I have in albums also help my brain retain memories of them. That is all. I can't conceptualise a 'soul' that lives on. I find it puzzling to be fair. yeh, sorry Anne - my brains not working very well atm!! Well I agree with what you say above, the bolded areas, completely. I too have been through it countless times. And although Im very spiritual in naature, Im also very scientifically minded. I dont see a difference when they die though - I see exactly what you see, decomposition etc..But I also see other differences in "whats left" I guess. What animated that particular animal has gone, their character, their individuality.....Whats left is just a husk, a shell, a body. Maybe its just alot simpler than what Im trying to understand - and it is purely belief or not in the soul..... Thanks for re-explaining what you believe, appreciate it And that is why spirituality is such an individual thing because it isn't a science, it is a belief system. No-one can be right or wrong with it. I am not overly scientific in my thought either, in fact, I firmly believe that if you are positive all the time you attract positive people and events in your life. I believe in energy of living people and the enrgy you give off predicts your life. There is no science to it. It is a belief, just as your belief of a soul.

I know exactly what you mean HeavyPaws - and have experienced too many times in the last 12 months I do not believe in God, but am a very spiritual person. Im more of a Pagan, Mother Nature type person. I believe that dogs and all animals have a soul, to me it has never been a maybe or could be thing. Just a given! I dont understand how some dont believe - and I dont mean that in a patronising way, but a genuine non understanding way. But I guess they feel the same about me believing. Perhaps someone could explain "how" they dont believe animals dont have a soul??? And no, Im not being a smartarse, just curious!I get how black and white it is from my point of view and would like to see it from the other side... I did explain (or so I thought) above. Just as it is hard I would think fo rme to grasp your concept of why, I expect that you will find it hard to grasp mine...but I'll give it another try. I view a living creature/being as being alive. I view a dead creature/being as being dead. I believe that while a person (or animal) is living, their heart is beating, their brain is developing and electrical impulses are darting about, their skin is pink from oxgen, their blood pulses through their veins. All the things you'd also believe in. The difference is though when they die, the body begins to break down and will eventually distengrate. The brain does the same. The fluid drains away. The electrical impulses cease. The oxygen is not pumped around. End of story. I've lost both my parents and countless animals, other relatives, friends and associates. The only reason they live on is because my memory still contains snippets of them. The pictures I have in albums also help my brain retain memories of them. That is all. I can't conceptualise a 'soul' that lives on. I find it puzzling to be fair.

Actually, I don't feel sorry for anyone who believes anything either way. I simply don't understand some beliefs in all honesty, but I don't diss people who believe in different things. Your beliefs are formed in a variety of ways and are there because they resonate with each individual on some level. I don't really care if people think I am wrong, sad or whatever because I believe you die, are buried and are eaten by bugs and grubs and your memory lives on in other people. End of story. I am quite happy and comfortable with that belief. It doesn't mean that I can't or don't give or receive love or anything else and to even try to project that idea that I am somehow 'sad' is pathetic. I can well understand why people believe in different gods and religions and I have personally seen that belief help many people in wonderous ways. I say good on them. I expect that others will also respect that my beliefs also keep me happy and help me in wonderous ways. Afterall, I'd hardly say that anyone could tell me I had a miserable life, in fact, I feel I am so totally blessed with a wonderful and rich life. What is there to be sad about?

Ahh, ok. I don't believe in anything going to live on, but can accept that many do. I think more of the physical changes that occur and that is why they look different. I also believe that the only thing that lives on is memories of those who knew the living person or animal. I guess that is why I can't see the significance, perosnally, of dog's having souls. I feel very sad for you Anne Why the hell would you feel sad for me. What an illogical and bizarre comment to make.

Love it. I wonder if it was real?

Ahh, ok. I don't believe in anything going to live on, but can accept that many do. I think more of the physical changes that occur and that is why they look different. I also believe that the only thing that lives on is memories of those who knew the living person or animal. I guess that is why I can't see the significance, perosnally, of dog's having souls.

Perhaps I am dumb, but I still don't really grasp the meaning of what 'soul' is.

I don't believe in god so I don't neccessarily believe in souls either. A dog is a dog.... I am rather at a loss at the the importance of one having a soul or not.

C'mon pugger, look how many typos and spelling errors I make. We all do it. Sum of em juz grate on me more than ovvers tho.

Would you say I had alot of hair? way to much Nah. I was joking. You're hair cut is grate. Your to nice erny. its really quiet long and dissapealing. I think we can be in aggreeance hear? Your making my head feel desgusting, congradulations.

OMG, how awful. How distressing it must have been for you all.