~Anne~

No sorry I cant make a point of that at all because this is a public forum and you're posting photos in this thread just to try to prove the point that in your own mind, standards shouldnt be adhered to. And that isnt a photo of me in my avatar. Even a blind and really stupid person would know that ZOMG, it's not?!! All this time I've imagined you with blue hair and now you say it isn't you?

Is Gus used to you going away? If you have done it regularly over his life, he would possibly handle it better although having you ask the question suggests maybe he isn't used to it. If he isn't used to long distance travel in a car, I think it would stress him more to go than to stay at home. Your best bet in my view would be to leave him in his normal environment if you can, with someone there to keep him company. Keep him in his same routine.

To my knowledge, cargo holds always have adjusted air temp controls because livestock and animals are frequently carried. However, in having said this, I am also of the understanding that certain areas of the hold are cooler and have temperature controlled more finely than other areas. *If* the dog had BAOS, and depending on how severe, then it could possibly have been this that killed it if the temperature were to be too warm and given the dog would be under stress which caused body temp to rise, hearts to beat faster and numerous other things. Anyway, unless more detail is available, it is anyone's guess.

No, they're dogs.

How sad. :D The conclusion that the dog "ran out of air" I find a little confusing. Why did the dog "run out of air"? Does that mean the dog was suffocated by the environment? Did it suffer from complications of BAOS? What was the exact cause? When this is determined, then you can decide who to seek compensation from.

Does it matter why they want it? The figures are publicly available at any rate on the ANKC website.

My own daughter calls my guys 'the fuglies'.

Wow, that's an interesting correlation too. Food for thought and something to explore further. I think we need to strip everything back to the bare bones in both welfare and breeding issues. Many have preconceived ideas and notions that I am not so sure are correct. Maybe this is why aren't moving forward at much pace?? How I wish I had the time and resources to emply a company to conduct detailed studies.

Excellent read! Good on you Steve for getting this ball rolling. With education, is there a way to promote Canine councils in each state as the first port of call for looking for a puppy? I think the canine associations need to push there presence (on tv, in the paper, in vets and in pet shops that dont sell live animals) as a place to find out about all breeds... Unless you are a member, show or know people that do.. there really aren't many ways to "see" them. But when you walk past a pet shop in your local town, and pups are in the window... hey presto.. I personally feel that it is not OUR (as in, me, we, th epublic or breeders) responsibility to promote any organisation. The Canine Councils are in a situation of their own and opngoing creation. THEY need to take responsibility for the position they find themselves in and do something about it. They need to use their resources to move with others.

Might just have to throw a little spanner in the works then. And you're the best person to throw that spanner in my view.

I tire of the 'ha ha, your dog looks like it ran into a parked car' type comments. People don't seem to realise that its not an original comment. :rolleyes: But then, I was going to call Boofy "Splat" but my husband wouldn't let me.

It is so beyond belief. Maybe they changed who they are representing but for got to tell the membership? What is the economic status of Blacktown? Is it really the only way to help the folks in Blacktown get control of their dogs to license all pet owners in the whole state? If the government was held accountable like a business they would never be allowed to take off in this sort of wild direction of massive costs without a hint of evidence this will improve things in Blacktown, never mind the rest of the state. In all reality, the dog attack stats would probably be similar across many LGAs and not just specific to Blacktown. Blacktown is the largest LGA, to my knowlege, in NSW and so the alleged high number of attacks could really only be looked at fairly by taking that fact into account. It is also rated as low socio-economic and I think, one of the lowest in the stats. Low socio economic! My Mum's little 3 bedroom 40 year old fibro house sold for half a million dollars in Blacktown! My sister's house near Bungaribeee Rd was recently valued at over that too. Rents are huge too. If that's low socia ecomomic out around here where a similar house on double the land goes for around 100,000 and rentals are around $150 a week makes you wonder . $500 is nothing for a house Julie. You've been out of Sydney for too long. :D Besides, low socio-economic doesn't have anything to do with realestate. Low socio-economic is based on education, income and social status. Well how the hell does anyone afford to keep a roof over their head with those kind of prices? They must be educted better on survival than I am because they are finding that kind of money to live ,they must be getting a hell of a lot more income than I am to pay for it and in my eyes they have a pretty high social status when I look at the those around here who struggle to find enough to eat after paying 100 a week rent. There might be more of em but they are definitely doing something better than us slum dwellers out here! Haven't you been listening to the news? :rolleyes: Rent is at a peak amounts and this forcing people to live in cars and on the street. Home buyers are priced out of the market and people are under mortgage stress. OT - but I have been looking at rentals recently for my youngest. A fibro, 1 bedroom granny flat in western Sydney rents for $200 per week and then you pay utilities on top.

A quick check of the BOS shows that Blacktown is rated in the 4th quintile with 5th being the absolute lowest and 1st being the better end of the scale.

It is so beyond belief. Maybe they changed who they are representing but for got to tell the membership? What is the economic status of Blacktown? Is it really the only way to help the folks in Blacktown get control of their dogs to license all pet owners in the whole state? If the government was held accountable like a business they would never be allowed to take off in this sort of wild direction of massive costs without a hint of evidence this will improve things in Blacktown, never mind the rest of the state. In all reality, the dog attack stats would probably be similar across many LGAs and not just specific to Blacktown. Blacktown is the largest LGA, to my knowlege, in NSW and so the alleged high number of attacks could really only be looked at fairly by taking that fact into account. It is also rated as low socio-economic and I think, one of the lowest in the stats. Low socio economic! My Mum's little 3 bedroom 40 year old fibro house sold for half a million dollars in Blacktown! My sister's house near Bungaribeee Rd was recently valued at over that too. Rents are huge too. If that's low socia ecomomic out around here where a similar house on double the land goes for around 100,000 and rentals are around $150 a week makes you wonder . $500 is nothing for a house Julie. You've been out of Sydney for too long. :rolleyes: Besides, low socio-economic doesn't have anything to do with realestate. Low socio-economic is based on education, income and social status.

Just as an added; Some facts and figures regarding Blacktown Local Govrnment Area which may put things in perspective; Blacktown LGA - 285,564 people Darwin LGA - 72,859 Hobart LGA - 49,593 In order of size the top 4 LGA's are; Brisbane LGA - 1,006,976 Gold Coast LGA - 524,654 ACT - 339,761 Blacktown LGA - 285, 564 However, stats aside, I agree strongly with Julie. We don't need any more laws.

It is so beyond belief. Maybe they changed who they are representing but for got to tell the membership? What is the economic status of Blacktown? Is it really the only way to help the folks in Blacktown get control of their dogs to license all pet owners in the whole state? If the government was held accountable like a business they would never be allowed to take off in this sort of wild direction of massive costs without a hint of evidence this will improve things in Blacktown, never mind the rest of the state. In all reality, the dog attack stats would probably be similar across many LGAs and not just specific to Blacktown. Blacktown is the largest LGA, to my knowlege, in NSW and so the alleged high number of attacks could really only be looked at fairly by taking that fact into account. It is also rated as low socio-economic and I think, one of the lowest in the stats.

The ugly comments don't bother me with my Pugs. I think they're cute and smooshy and so the look of repulsion on some faces doesn't affect me.

Educating the public does not entail 'creating a student and teacher' situation usually. Public education and awareness programs are, for example, like the ads we are currently hearing about 'looking up' for powerlines or the 'Dial before you Dig' campaign. Awareness campaigns also include topics such as gambling, water control and weed control. A variety of methods are used in changing and altering behaviour and educating. Some are through more community awareness campagins and others through social marketing campaigns. Examples might include a campaign through media with advertorials, editorials, interest stories and advertising, identifying areas or groups of concern and working with these specific areas or groups, and more educational areas such as information seminars and examples of best practice. Social behaviour, awareness and social marketing campaigns can be highly successful.

I want to see the council to take more responsibility. We pay rego fees each year so use some of that to put the current laws into effect. I don't think the RSPCA should have the market on animal stuff, the council needs to step up to the plate and be actively involved in these issues. Yep so do I but I do think there is a difference between policing laws which are about compliance for some mickey mouse stuff - like where my dog sleeps and how many I can have in a house yard etc and the real stuff that impacts like not feeding them or throwing them against the fence etc too. I dont think its up to a council or a police officer or the RSPCA to tell me when I have to vaccinate my dog and make it a crimminal offence if I dont as is the case in NSW and Victoria. i dont think mandatory laws should dictate that my dogs should be kept on hard impervious floors when they have evolved to run on dirt and dig and sunbake either. When you get laws and the RSPCA policing them which turns an old lady into a crimminal because she took a dog to a dog show which was debarked by a licenced and very competent vet because she didnt ask some stranger first its time to say we have truly gone way too far. I guess that is where it gets hard, different state laws mean that it becomes harder for regi breeders in some areas. Yes I agree with this. It's the - I want a puppy and I want it now - attitude that keeps the sausage factories and pet shop sales in business. Buyer behaviour and community expectations and behaviour have been successfully altered for centuries with education and marketing campaigns. Think of major gov campaigns that you know of like the Grim Reaper. It actually educated and changed social behaviour. There are a million examples of how this has worked but that is the main one that comes to mind. Yes you can change these things, but lets be honest about the chances of this happen when relating it to dogs. How many purebred puppies were born through ethical registered breeders last year and how many dogs were actually bought? I don't know the answer to this question, but I'm going to bet that registered pups were a minority number. There simply aren't enough registered breeders to supply the market. All that will happen is dodgy people will become registered and start breeding poor quality purebreds and then you have to try and get people to figure out who is an ethical breeder and who isn't, because as has been stated on here before it is very hard for the canine orgs to boot registered breeders out due to trade laws. I understand how education campaigns reduce things that require behaviour change in society, but you are suggesting changing a society behaviour where the industry will be unable to meet the demand and so the behaviour change won't stick for the majority. Sorry, I think we have crossed thoughts here. I was not referring to educating people and encouraging them to buy puppies from registered breeders. I was talking about changing society's idea of responsibility when it comes to owning dogs in this day and age. My comment was off the back of my previous comments were we talked about the increasing numbers of dogs being in pounds which is what produced the comments about buyer behaviour of puppies. However, taking your point into consideration, why are pedigree puppy registrations in decline? I feel there are numerous answers to this and some of the decline can be directly attributed to breeders, some to legislation and some to the demand of the oodle. These things are not irreversable either.

A Pug would be great.... IF you are ok with shedding and having hair on every surface. As a Pug rescuer, one of the biggest issues I found that caused people to buy one and then surrender it a year or so later was the shedding. Really think about it. Even me, a self-confessed Pug fanatic of more than 34 years has finally come to the conclusion that after my guys are gone, I am done with dog hair. If I get another dog, it will be one that hardly or rarely sheds hair.

Yes I agree with this. It's the - I want a puppy and I want it now - attitude that keeps the sausage factories and pet shop sales in business. Buyer behaviour and community expectations and behaviour have been successfully altered for centuries with education and marketing campaigns. Think of major gov campaigns that you know of like the Grim Reaper. It actually educated and changed social behaviour. There are a million examples of how this has worked but that is the main one that comes to mind.

Bringelly isn't exactly in the Illawarra though Lillypilly. Closer to the Illawarra, at Heathcote, are Hanrob Kennels. I have heard mainly good stories about them and the facility is owned by a Vet to my knowledge.

Education and awareness campaigns. At the moment, at local government level in particular, they appear to spend more time and resources on cleaning up the mess by operating impound facilities, employing rangers and managing social and or health impacts on the community. Perhaps it is more logical to switch resources to prevention? I really don't know the answer and to be honest, I think the answer is far too complex and involved to be summed up in a thread on the internet. Surely though logic and common sense has to come back into the equation somewhere and recognition that life is different now in the 21st century and we live and play differently.

Can't give you an answer there, as I'm only stating my opinion on what I've seen as I troll through rescue sites on a daily basis. You would be better asking that question to Pug rescue or Beagle rescue (as they both seem to be huge and have a good sample-size) and see what their view on the matter is. Your other question confuses me a little, as a decline in dog ownership as a percentage of the population would in itself be a contributing factor in the large amount of dogs in shelters and rescues. Up until September last year, I was Pug Rescue Sydney :D :D Maybe you misunderstood the figures I was pointing out. I haven't the exact numbers on me at the moment but I have quoted them on this forum before. The population of Australia has grown by (let's pick a number just for illustartive purposes only) 10 million in the last 20 years, while the number of people who own dogs grew by only 1.5 million in the last 20 years. This suggests very strongly to me that there is no 'oversupply' problem. However, the numbers of dogs arriving in pounds and rescues each year increase. Why? My best guess is that it is more to do with how we view pets and our responsibility towards them, than any issue with how many we are allowing to be born into this world.

If we are to believe that the reason why so many dogs end up in rescues and pounds across Australia is due to the 'oversupply' of dogs in the pet market, then how do we explain the declining dog ownership growth when compared to the growth of the population of Australia? Also, I think the definition of 'purebred' dogs in pounds needs to be clarified. If you have 50 'purebred' dogs in one month in a pound, how many of that 50 do you think would be registered pedigree dogs? I would say that the percentage of registered pedigrees would be very minimal.