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@ Steve the puppy got sick almost 5 weeks after he got it. I think I may have said earlier it was 6 weeks, I apologise. Whichever it is, the incubation peroid for e coli is 3-8 days not 5-6 weeks I appreciate your answer, I should have done things differently, and if there is a next time, I definately will

@tdierikx I sell all of my puppies with papers and main register puppies do cost more than limited. This was a limited register puppy. I am not fussed at all to give him the refund for the papers, but like I have already said I do not think he realises it is only $30. This is my first time dealing with such a person, and I just wanted some advice. I thank you all for your assistance in this matter. As a last word, I will be asking to see the death certificate, if it cannot be provided, then neither will the papers or any money. ETA: I will not be giving a full refund of the price of the puppy unless there is proof that it is dead and that the death was caused by something on my part....That is called stand over tactics, and I will not give in to that. I don't see why I should have my integrity questioned when this person has NO proof of any wrong doing by me. He is probably kicking himself because he was too tight to pay for the culture growth and now if the puppy has died, it would have died over the sake of $50.

@JulesP...the other people who bought puppies havent got their papers yet also, and they aren't complaining...because they know they WILL get it..

Well @ JulesP...tranferring the puppy is just about the only thing he could have done with them papers. And, seeing the puppy is dead (supposedly), even if he had the papers, the correct procedure is for him to send the papers back. In which case he wouldnt have them anyway. And he didnt sound too devastated on the phone, just concerned for his papers. @ellz and Aziah...I am also concerned for the reason he wants the papers, most likely to register a pitbull as an Amstaff...IDK...like I said never dealt with such a person before. When he calls next I will ask him for the death certificate and take it from there. The papers should be arriving at any time now.

@ conztruct I have no proof whatsoever that the puppy is dead and I don't have their email. We have only spoken on the phone and they have been to my house twice. Thats it. I wish I did have their email, would make keeping conversations easier to keep track of.

I don't think he realises that the actual papers are only worth about $30, he is probably thinking they are worth a couple of hundred dollars. @JulesP perhaps you live in an ideal world, where everything turns exactly how its planned, but unfortunately most of us don't. Of course it is ideal for the papers to be ready when the puppies are sold, but Dogs Victoria are not the most helpful of people at the best of times. And even if he did get them with them puppy, what would he have done with them with a 14 week old puppy anyway, you said now he can't do anything with them, which he couldnt have anyway. @Ellz I really appreciate your suggestion about the legal stuff. I dont know anyone in that profession, but will look into legal aid or similar. I will try and call the vet and tell them I am the registered owner, but I am sure they will come up with some excuse, like why is he paying for the vet fees when I am the owner. Thank you all again for your help and advice. it is much appreciated

@ellz....OMG lol...how did you know...that is exactly who I spoke to...the head vet nurse who also has a God complex

@ casowner...I have registered the litter, but they will all be registered in my name. The new owners will change it once they receieve the papers. He knew my puppies were sick because I told him, I wanted to make sure he knew how urgent it was that he get his puppy to the vet ASAP. Apparently it was there from Thursday night to Sunday on the drip, and died yesterday... BUT the vet told ME that his puppy was not as sick as mine and that the owner didnt have the resources to do a culture, so thats a breach like you said.

@ lilli lol yes I am in the process of looking for a new vet, this one is very convenient, nice and close, but if I have to travel now, so be it. I called them yesterday and asked them and told them he wants money. They don't care. They just said, we cannot tell you anything-not even if it is alive or dead, he owns the dogs now, even though you bred it, you dont own it anymore. We cannot discuss other people's pets with anyone else. And then she pretty much hung up on me! Sooo..without their help I am stuck unless I see a death certificate or autopsy report, I guess

Agreed, and sighting a death certificate is the only positive way to know. He and I go to the same vet who will not tell me if the puppy has died or not due to confidentiality BS..... So how do I find out one way or another if the vet will not tell me anything, so frustrating @nickojoy Good idea, I will cross the number out for sure. TY

@casowner...no offense taken at all. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I am definately going to ask of proof of death from the vet, he saw the same vet we also see. I agree that all tests should have been done to find out the exact cause of its vomiting etc...which is what I did with my puppies. Another thing I forgot to mention is that the vet said to me that this puppy was not as sick as my puppies. SO...if this is the case, why are my puppies who were sicker still alive, and his died the day after he brought it home from the vet. TBH I do not believe the puppy is dead at all, I think once I told him that one of my puppies had died from this, he saw that as a way to try and extort money from me. Anyway, what I have decided to do is give him the $30 for the papers and also a black and white photo copy of his puppy's papers with 'DECEASED' written across it. And then return the original to Dogs Victoria.

It is not illegal to sell the puppies without microchips, I am not a commercial breeder and I did do it last litter...BUT being so many puppies this litter, I thought it would be much easier (and avoid confusion and possible mix up) for each new owner to do it themselves. This is only me second and possibly last litter. All purchasers were fully aware the puppies would not be micro chipped and that they WILL get the papers, so there is no need to him to feel ripped off, and if he had paid to have a culture done, he would have known what was wrong with the puppy. I did not supply them with a copy of my dogs' pedigrees as they would have gotten their own pedigree for their own puppy.

No, the microchip number was not on the papers. I hadn't had the puppies chipped, after the dramas we had with the last litter at the vets (not getting number confused between the puppies, as well as 3 extra puppies this litter), I thought it easier to let the new owners do it, stupid me I won't be so stupid next time, if there is one...It's amazing how many idiots come out of the woodwork when you have puppies for sale. I just spoke to an independant vet and she feels it is highly unlikely that his puppy could have contracted the e coli from here and not show symptoms for 6 weeks. That's if his had e coli to begin with. Thanks again, you guys are being extremely helpful

Sorry, I should have been more clear.....he only wants money back if he doesnt get the papers, which is why I feel something fishy is going on..... If it was my puppy who died, the last thing I would be worrying about is getting the papers for a dead puppy.... Does anyone else think this sounds like a fishy story also ? I agree about providing a copy of the papers with deceased writted accross them, that way he still has them, but cannot use them for anything illegal.

Thank you for your replies. @ nickojoy I am not sure what caused the e-coli infection, I do not feed raw food or eggs to my puppies. The vet wasnt very helpful about a possible cause either. @stef_83, none of the other puppies are sick, and I highly doubt that the e-coli infection would present itself after he had owned the dog for 6 weeks, if it was the same one my puppies contracted. His puppy hadnt even been here for 2 weeks by the time they got it. The incubation period is only 3-8 days. My puppies have been home from hospital for 2 weeks now, and have not been in contact with any other dogs/puppies apart from their parents. The new owners have said to me that they have had their puppies vaccinated (2nd one), and the vets have said they are in good health. And like I mentioned, from 4 puppies I had here, one did not contract the e coli, despite living in the same house. @STITCH...I will do that, but Dogs Victoria people are far from helpful in most situations, so I am not expecting much. @Beauie I agree with what you are saying about the reimbursment, he is not asking for money back for the puppy, just the papers, should he not get them. This is the reason I find strange, and likely he is planning to get a Pitbull or something...Why else would he be so concerned about having papers for a dead puppy. IDK. perhaps a refund will put an end to this, but perhaps not too...and like I said, who is to say the puppy is even dead, why would the vet feel it is well enough to be released from hospital on Sunday and it is dead on Monday.... Something very fishy about this story....

Hi Guys, This is an extremely long post and I apologise, but please read on... I am just after some advice from the breeders here. My dog had a litter of 10 puppies (Feb 13), 5 of which went to their new homes at 8 weeks. 2 weeks later, 4 out of the 5 puppies I still had at home contracted a severe e-coli infection. One passed away, the rest made a full recovery after a few days on a drip. The e-coli was diagnosed after a stool culture. About 5 days ago, someone who had purchased a puppy at 8 weeks called me to say the puppy is vomiting and lethargic. I told him to take it to the vet ASAP, telling him what had happened with my puppies to reiterate the urgency needed for the dog to see the vet. So he took it and called me on Saturday to say it will be coming home on Sunday and the vet said this puppy came from a very sick litter, blah, blah.....So, I called the vet, and of course he said he didnt say that. Also he said he doubts this puppy's illness is related to my other ones, this puppy wasnt as sick as mine but he couldnt be sure what it is exactly because the new owner wasnt prepared to pay to have a culture done. Now this guy called me last night to say the puppy had died (which TBH IDK if I believe, why would the vet send it home on Sunday if it was still at risk or death), and telling me how devestated they are, etc..... BUT, in the same breath, he is asking for reimbursement for the actual pedigree papers (I am still waiting on the papers from Dogs Victoria), should he not receive his them... I am not sure what the prodecure is about the death of puppies/dogs who are registered with Dogs Victoria and I am under the assuption that because these are Amstaff puppies, he plans to use the papers with a Pitbull, but my papers will 'prove' it is an Amstaff. Why else would he want papers for a dog whom is supposedly dead ? He finished the conversation saying Dont forget I know where you live....now I am not scared, and I do not want to supply him papers for a dead puppy, to be misued, and the vet will not tell me anything due to confidentality. The actual papers cost like $30, so I am thinking of giving him the $30 and showing him that is the actual cost for the papers, then he will have his money back, but I will not refund any more. This is the first time I have dealt with such a fool and I would appreicate absolutely ANY advice you have to offer. Thank you in advance.

Hi Guys, This is an extremely long post and I apologise, but please read on... I am just after some advice from the breeders here. My dog had a litter of 10 puppies (Feb 13), 5 of which went to their new homes at 8 weeks. 2 weeks later, 4 out of the 5 puppies I still had at home contracted a severe e-coli infection. One passed away, the rest made a full recovery after a few days on a drip. The e-coli was diagnosed after a stool culture. About 5 days ago, someone who had purchased a puppy at 8 weeks called me to say the puppy is vomiting and lethargic. I told him to take it to the vet ASAP, telling him what had happened with my puppies to reiterate the urgency needed for the dog to see the vet. So he took it and called me on Saturday to say it will be coming home on Sunday and the vet said this puppy came from a very sick litter, blah, blah.....So, I called the vet, and of course he said he didnt say that. Also he said he doubts this puppy's illness is related to my other ones, this puppy wasnt as sick as mine but he couldnt be sure what it is exactly because the new owner wasnt prepared to pay to have a culture done. Now this guy called me last night to say the puppy had died (which TBH IDK if I believe, why would the vet send it home on Sunday if it was still at risk or death), and telling me how devestated they are, etc..... BUT, in the same breath, he is asking for reimbursement for the actual pedigree papers (I am still waiting on the papers from Dogs Victoria), should he not receive his them... I am not sure what the prodecure is about the death of puppies/dogs who are registered with Dogs Victoria and I am under the assuption that because these are Amstaff puppies, he plans to use the papers with a Pitbull, but my papers will 'prove' it is an Amstaff. Why else would he want papers for a dog whom is supposedly dead ? He finished the conversation saying Dont forget I know where you live....now I am not scared, and I do not want to supply him papers for a dead puppy, to be misued, and the vet will not tell me anything due to confidentality. The actual papers cost like $30, so I am thinking of giving him the $30 and showing him that is the actual cost for the papers, then he will have his money back, but I will not refund any more. This is the first time I have dealt with such a fool and I would appreicate absolutely ANY advice you have to offer. Thank you in advance.

@ sandgrubber I am not offended by your asking, but I do take a little offence to your implication that I do not know what I am talking about. If you google Canine Cerebellar Ataxia, you will find many results as well as proof that this diesase is genetic, hence the reason why we and other breeders want to test if our dogs are carriers.

Thank you so much for your replies. I will get onto Antagene ASAP!! Much appreciated

Hi all, This is my first post on this forum, so I apologize if there is already a thread on this topic. I am trying to find somewhere to have my two Amstaffs tested for Ataxia and am having trouble finding a lab who does it. Even the vets I have called do not know. So I am after some advice about how to go about having this test done. Names or numbers of labs or any other helpful information would be very much appreciated. We are in Victoria, IDK if that matters, but just in case. Thank you :D