mumof3

We also have had working dogs. I agree dogs need to be taught to tie up, as in, you can't just tie them up and leave them, you have to teach them if you want to tie them. I absolutely agree with the heavy chain with swivels, and would suggest that you make it only long enough for the dog to stand and move around a little bit. As you are only tethering the dog there for a short time while you train with your other dog, they don't need alot of freedom to move. Freedom similar to what they would get in a crate would be sufficient. Also, if possible, when teaching you dog to tie, try to fix the tether at ground level along a wall which they can not get around, under, over or tangled up in. This way they can not go around and around their tether. My last suggestion is to try the traingle of temptation training technique which is laid out I think under the obedience forum and would also be a good way to teach the dog to tether. Teaching the dog to tie is really only an extension of it learning to walk along nicely on the lead, and to stay. The dog should be introduced to the idea of pressure from the collar and know how to respond without panicking, or tieing will be trouble. Dogs who travel on utes must by law be either tied or crated for their own safety. There are many ways to tie a dog, and there is always someone who's gonna do it wrong and endanger their dog. It is useful to be able to tie a dog for a short period and if taught under careful supervision, it is not dangerous.

oh does this sound familiar or what! My little croc been here almost 4 weeks and have only had one sleep in . and that was till 9, as she was down the hall . it felt so weird im use to getting up about 6 now and watching bewitched, Jeanie then Sabrina lol. so clear in my head. although this morning it was 4:00! we usuallyy go back to bed if she wants a wee but i channel surfed wanted to watch the sun rise from behind the mountains You don't have kids do you?! I think it is so funny how similar this forum is to a group of expectant and new mothers. I've got three kids. My youngest is not sleeping through the night yet, at 10 months. And I hopefully have a puppy arriving in about 2 months. Luckily I'm used to not getting any sleep. I think that if no one woke my up, I'd just wake up myself out of habit. I haven't had a sleep in for about 5 1/2 years (unless you count nights where one of the kids wouldn't sleep so they end up sleeping in). No wonder I'm unmotivated and waste time on things like the net! Good luck with the night shift.

I agree, programms like these are brilliant. Similar programmes involving breaking and training wild horses have been used with prisoners and at risk youth, with, I believe terrific effect. I think if I ever won lotto or something, and wanted to do something philanthropical, therapies of all kids involving animals would be top of my list. Animals have the power to help the disabled, the sick, the lonely, the criminal, the mentally ill, children, elderley, rebellious - a little bit of love and joy goes a long way. Good on them all.

I think you are doing the right thing getting professional help, and that you have received some good advice here from other posters. I don't think you are at all overreacting. It sounds like your dog may just be ready to move up a peg in the pecking order of his pack, so he's just testing to see where he stands. This really is something you need to nail immediately. If you're not sure how, the absolutely best thing to do is get advice from someone who knows there stuff. I think the suggestion to write down what is going on, as objectively as possible, is a good one. It will help you coherently explain to the behaviourist just what is going on. Good on you.

Hello puppy people, I'm waiting for a puppy too. I've a Brittany puppy on order, due to be born about 2 May. Hopefully there'll be enough to go around and I'll get a puppy out of this litter. I'm a first time Brittany owner, but have had many puppies and dogs before, having used dogs at work for a few years (cattle working collies and kelpies mostly). Switching to pet mode will be a new one on us, and reading the threads on here, many of the pets are incredibly pampered - it seems like another world! I still see dogs as dogs, loved members of the family, but dogs, not furry four legged people. I think dogs are happy to be dogs, to serve, to have a leader, to behave as animals do. So I've a bit of a learning curve ahead of me with this whole pet thing. I'm trying not to waste time on the internet, as I've been haunting dol for a while trying to relieve my frustrations (that doesn't sound quite right somehow). But, thought I'd just say high to you all. I'm jealous of those who already have their puppy. I'll try to only check the thread once a day, but I'm a little addicted right now so perhaps it will be once an hour.... REALLY must go and do something constructive. Can't wait till I finally get my pup. Perhaps I should have the internet disconnected until then! bye!

I haven't read the whole thread. But from your initial list, I'd say Boxer or Mastiff. I've had a boxer, and she would tick all your boxes. I've had a mastiff cross and known quite a few mastif crosses, and found them to be not at all agressive - quite the opposite. If you want to avoid a high energy dog, consider adopting a mature dog older than 3 years. All pups are full of energy (or they should be) and need alot of your time. A mature dog post puberty should have settled down a bit. No reason not to take your list of wants to a shelter and consider adopting a cross bred. There are lots of mastif cross dogs in shelters, staffy crosses, boxer crosses and cattle dog crosses - perhaps one of these would suit you. Seek support from knowledgeable people about what your dog needs and about training - perhaps an obedience club. If you don't train your dog, it will decide for itself what to and not to do. good luck! S

doesn't hurt at all. I've pulled my own stitches out of me - didn't hurt. Used to always pull my husbands stitches out, and the dogs' stitches. Simple as so long as it is done on time. If left too long, skin can grow over the suture, and will need to be cut away.

YAY! So pleased to hear all went well italmum. Now I''m a little jealous with our pup still not even born..... Patience .... Congratulations and all the best of luck with your new family member.

This story may get me flamed, but what the heck, we were all young once. My husband and I used to have pig hunting dogs. The dogs were of mastiff, and boxer cross lines, back yard bred freebies. They were fit, happy dogs that loved what they did, and were relatively well cared for. As hunting dogs go, they were hunted carefully, with protective gear and were never allowed to simply fight pigs -some people actually stand back and watch the dog fight a pig When we would get their hunting collars out, our dogs would go beserk, jumping, wagging their tails, getting on and off the ute, they were so excited - theyt knew what those collars meant - a run in the bush and a hunt. We don't hunt anymore, but the dogs did love it. We also had a dog that would scratch her tummy by rubbing it on the ground - it looked very rude!

So I haven't gone and read all 27 or so pages of this thread, but wanted to jump in with my personal experience. I'll back the individual temperament being more important than breed, having been protected by a GR and by a cattle dog in two seperate incidents. But also, the circumstances of the dogs early life... I've had a few dogs over the years, mostly adopted from the pound and occasionally wrangled from an abusive owner. I'd say that the best protective dogs I've had have all been dogs that were rescued by us from unpleasant circumstances. Dogs whose life was a misery until we got them. This happened with the GR I had when I was a child, and with a particular cattle dog bitch that my DH had when we first got together. There have been other dogs we have had over the years who have also come from sorry situations, and all of these animals had an excellent temperament, bonded with us extremely closely, were highly respectful of the pecking order in our pack (dog / human and cat family). I'd say they behaved in a way you might expect a wild dog to behave, being excellent with pups (including children) - tolerating the pain they inflict endlessly, looking to their leader for direction at all times, getting alot of pleasure from pleasing their leader, and playing their role in the pack. I'm sure circumstances could ruin a dog's temperament but in our experience, a bit of hardship earlier in the dogs life has seemed to result in animals who ticked alot of boxes. Please don't read into this that I think abusing a dog is a good way to get it to be a good dog! I'm just saying that previously abused dogs have been excellent pets, and quite protective - this has been my experience and I thought it was worth some discussion. Perhaps we just got extremely lucky. I should add that we have lived in circumstances where it was very useful to have a dog who would protect us, and our property - like our ute. I've seen dogs protect children from a brown snake, had a dog stop my husbands mates from dragging him out of the rain when as a very drunk 20 year old he laid passed out on the lawn of a friends place (we were all young once right?), we even used one of our dogs once to find a 2 year old child lost at night on a cattle station (the kid had a bitch in heat with him and our male dog lead us in a beeline straight to him over about a kilometer in the scrub when the SES had been searching for about 8 hours and we had him in about 20 minutes)

He is awesome, looks very much like the little CKCS girl I adopted when on a working holiday in NZ thirty years ago. She was handed over to the pound as the owners couldn't be bothered with her any more and I took one look at her and couldn't say no. I brought her back home to Aus with me and she lived a grand and spoiled life. I still miss my little 'Lady". Don't bother buying a bed, of course he will be sleeping in a peoples bed :D ;) well maybe i should buy the tramp bed thingy for DH to sleep on I have a wooden baby cradle that rocks that you can buy for your new puppy! It will fit nicely next to your bed, and you can rock it off to sleep....

I'm sorry to hear that italmum. It is hard when you have your heart set on something for the kids, to have to wait and wait and wait... And it's hard to have people judging you according to all their bad experiences, when you know you have so much more to offer. A couple of years ago we tried to adopt a dog through the RSPCA. I live in a remote area, and the nearest shelter is about 500km away. DH found a lovely dog in there on a visit to Townsville and tried to adopt it. RSPCA insisted that we couldn't have it unless we brought our kids in and our other dogs (at the time we had three working dogs). It just wasn't going to happen, travelling the kids to Townsvile, and the dogs just for that reason. And it was frustrating cause we are pretty experienced dog people and understand a bit of dog psychology etc and DH thought it was an ideal animal to fit in with us. Keep trying. It'll happen. S

Wow goldengirl - are you one of my brothers or my sister in disguise. We had that trampoline, too, and placed on a slope. We had a great time. Worst thing about it was the static electricity shock you got from touching the frame after jumping on it for a while. It was an old olmpic sized tramp we got from a scout hall. We loved it. I tied my horse to it - imagine trying to do that with one of those big enclosed ones! I read an article that said that the kids who are raised in cotton wool grow up not very good at risk assessment. We learnt risk assessment as a kid. If there were clouds in the sky you didn't go climbing up the open end of the neighbourhood stormwater pipe.... S

Funny how you meet people on the net with such a similar outlook. Sometimes I wish I had a "messy area" that was confined to just one part of the house and the half acre we live on, not just the whole jolly lot! OH is just as messy as the kids - and then so am I... If you didn't live on the other side of the country, I'd suggest we meet up for coffee! Yes, chooks are great. And fresh eggs are so much better than what passes for eggs in the shops. Our chooks more than pay their own way, and eat alot of the inevitable small children kitchen waste. I'm counting on our puppy eating some of the stuff that is unsuitable for the chooks. (Of course I will feed the pup as per the breeders instructions (just in case anyone reading this worried that my pup was only going to get squashed vegemite sandwiches, leftover lasagne and sausages))

I feel for children who are not given permission to enjoy animals. Animals of all shapes and sizes are wonder for kids. I have a friend who lives on a farm with her 5 children and husband and she won't allow the kids to have a dog - which is such an enormous pity. When I was discussing dogs for my kids with her she commented that she felt she just couldn't trust a dog with her kids because of all the bad press... I have another friend who won't allow her kids in their early child hood years to do craft etc at home. That is what playgroup was for she says. My kids paint, playdough, make hats, boats, stick down, cut out, grow veges, play in the dirt, eat the dirt (at certain ages), play in the sandpit, get led around on horses, play with dogs, the list is endless. The older two (5, and TODAY turning 3) play happily outside together for hours on end, and come in filthy and usually wet. This is what childhood should be like, I think. Our house is messy and creative, but mostly pretty clean. Our rainwater tank has a changing mural on it and our concrete paths are ususally covered in coloured chalk. The kids are often in dress ups or no clothes at all (though I've started to discourage nudity in my 5 year old). The collect the eggs, chase the cat, let the chooks out and round them up again. And I have the enormous priveledge and joy of being a SAHM. Long live kids and dogs and mess and love and music and fingerpaint!

As a kid, I had a rescue golden retriever. Never said boo to anyone we met on the street, except once, walking with him in the bushland, a man approached me and my dog went balistic. Golden retriever with a guttural growl, straining on the lead to get at this bloke, hackles up. The man went away and I went straight home, upset by how upset Jasper had become. I don't remember anything strange about this bloke, and he was one of many people who approached us over the years. He had approached us in a normal way, with a hello, and crossed the bush trail to be closer to us. I often wonder what would have happened if I didn't have Jasper with me. Mum was always very insistent upon us taking the dog if we went anywhere. Who knows what they pick up, be it strange behaviour, mental illness, subtle body language cues or just plain character. Doubtless not all dogs do it, some are oblivious. If your dog does take exception to someone though, I'd be inclined to heed the warning.

AVOID Gunna Go Caravan park on the Bruce highway near Proserpine / Bowen region. Very dear, very yuck, not securely fenced. Zero stars. Though charged like a 5 star.

Personally, Cindy, I do think this is a great way to go. My advice would be, if you haven't had pups before, to thoroughly research things like toilet training, bite innhibition training and general manners and obedience training before the pup arrives. There is a post stuck to the top of one of the forums here about how, if you fail to train a dog, it will train itself, the wrong things, and I think it is very very true. I think the smaller pup will give the kids the upper hand for a little while while you bring things under control with the appropriate training. Hopefully by the time the pup reaches its peak activity level, some ground rules will be in place with both the kids and the dog. Baby puppies are a charm, but like children they turn into teenagers which can be a challenging time. Best to bond with the baby first, get the relationship right before moving through the teenage wilderness - at least that's what I think. Unless you can just get a real nice 3 or 4 year old adult dog with all the work done. That could be good. S

It has mostly been said, except this (from my brief reading of the thread). This behaviour may have possibly been prevented with the right approach during the stage of puppyhood where this dog develops her prey drive. However, this opportunity has obviously past, and while she was at the stage of developing her prey drive, some nice furry animals existed in a pretty easy to get at cage and she was able to explore and satisfy her prey drive, ingraining the behaviour by doing it several times, and being rewarded by the provision of more prey in the cage. I really doubt anything can be done about this ingrained behaviour now, and think that getting rid of the small animals, at least for a long period of time, is the best answer.

Hi italmum ME TOO ME TOO ME TOO!!! Wow - I thought I was reading my own post for a moment there. I haven't read the entire thread just yet but hope to get back to it. I also have three young children and am looking to acquire, for the first time, a family pet dog. My kids are 5, 3 and 1, and have grown up around the cat, our working dogs, horses, chooks etc. It is time for particularly my 5 year old to have a pet dog. The working dogs are not really suitable for a few different reasons. I too have had a bit of an anit child attitude from some breeders, but have had a very helpful and supportive attitude from the breeder I am listed with now. I've been very open about our circumstances, and very fussy about trying to get "the one" as you put it. I chose a different breed from you, the Brittany, because we are a very active outdoorsy family and the dog should be able to come on horse rides and long walks and bike rides and camping trips etc etc. We have a half acre back yard and I'm also a full time SAHM (aren't we so lucky?). So I just wanted to reach out and say - YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! Some thoughts, though, as I have raised many pups (working dogs). I decided against an older pup because this is the age where they can be a bit much for children and if they haven't had the right training and socialisation from the start it may be a bit of an uphill battle (though I think your choice of breed is pretty spot on). I've noticed that many of the older pups being rehomed come with a bit of "baggage", probably an owner who didn't have the time to spend with the pup to make things go the right way. I decided to find either a beautiful, perfect mature dog (say about 4 - 8 years) who came from a family who had lovingly cared for him and trained him but sadly had to relocate overseas or something (a tall order), or to just get a young pup and make sure I invest the time from the start to make sure it all works. Another thought, and I may come under attack here, but so be it. I'm not convinced that all breeders are necessarily breeding for temperament (the single most important factor for you and I). If a breeder doesn't sound happy about children being around their dogs, I'd just move along to another breeder. Sooner or later you'll find someone who loves dogs AND children and will help you to find the right animal for you (hopefully someone with integrity and a good reputation - not just a BYB who will sell you anything). You and I know our children and what they are capable of and what is right for them. We know what sort of dog we want. Be patient and I'm sure it will come around. I've got another month to wait until my puppy is born - and I'm TRYING to be patient, but I'm very excited about going into this stage. I know my younger two will need time away from the pup, and pup will need time away from all the children, so I've decided the pup will not be a indoors all the time dog, but will have a crate in the laundry and the run of the garden, and be invited in for cuddles on the lounge with OH and I after all the kids have gone to sleep, and maybe for watching ABC kids in the afternoon. So nice to hear another Mum with the same problems that I'm having - feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat further. Animals are so good for children, we had a rescue Golden Retriever when I was a kid and that was just wonderful. Kids learn so much about compassion, caring for animals, respect and importantly, consequences. The Cav's are just beautiful and I nearly went that way but decided to get something that could come with us everywhere and do everything with us everyday - a boys dog with lots of spark. Hugs and good luck S

We don't forget, but keep the feeding unpredictable. The same goes for the horses. Why should the animals tell us when to feed them? We are the leaders of the pack. A vet told us that the dogs benefit from fasting up to once a week, and we've made that a practice, particularly with dogs that are in work (cattle work). Horses don't get fasted, but there is no set "feed time" - it is when we get in at the end of the day, or perhaps in the morning if that suits us for some reason. Some of our working dogs sometimes forget to feed themselves! We feed them and they go and have a look, then leave it. I guess cause the working dog ration is not terribly delectable unless it is fresh bones day. Personally, I think forgetting to excersise a dog that is caged, tied or couped up in an apartment or small back yard is worse for the dog than forgetting to feed them. Many pet dogs seem to me to be very fat. I get a little tired of people looking at our fit, excersised, trained and working collies and kelpies (when we had them) and thinking they were too skinny and we were neglectful when they had their own morbidly obese animal stuck in their 400sqm backyard for weeks on end without seeing the other side of the fence. So don't feel guilty about forgetting to feed the dog - they love to make us feel guilty with those beautiful eyes etc etc. They are no healthier fat than you or I. Except, I wouldn't fast a puppy, a nursing or pregnant bitch, or allow a dog to go without water, especially in hot weather. We lost a dog to dehydration once when the person caring for him while we were away forgot to fill up the waters in very hot weather. It was an immense loss.

Yay! It's good to hear about this program. Great....not at all airy-fairy & based on research that shows it works. There was a major study into boys who became anti-social & it showed kids heading that way could be picked out by age 5 yrs. The recommendation of the medical researchers was to make the triple p program available to parents. Yes, it seems to be one of the more useful things around at the moment. Actually empowering parents and teaching them, not just berating them. Another thing worth mentioning is the book "Raising Boys" By Steve Biddulph (perhaps not for this lady as her English might not stretch to it), wherein the author makes the point that BOYS NEED DADS. It is a useful, constructive and not at all wishy washy read which lays out pretty clearly what boys need, and doesn't really pull any punches about where our society is letting boys down.

Tricky issue, and I wholeheartedly agree with the kindly police officer approach, the "takes a village to raise a child" sentiment and the comments made by Mita a few posts back. One angle you might like to consider, seeing as if these kids are out of control, there will no doubt be more issues in the future, is the idea that these parents may need some sort of support re how to discipline these kids. If the mum has poor english skills she may not be aware of or capable of finding out about support mechanisms which are available to help her as a parent. Things such as the triple "p" positive parenting program. Perhaps you'd like to consider if there is a supportive and non offensive way that you can offer to help her access programs such as this. Parents can have the best intentions, but without significant skills and support from family, or their community it can be a very daunting task to parent children effectively, particularly if the children have a challenging temperament and Dad is away for extended periods. She may well benefit from some support, and may need help in accessing it. A small investment of your time here may benefit your friendship with her, help solve this issue and prevent future issues, and may make a lifelong difference to these young boys.