Little Gifts

Apologies to the breed lovers out there but I am yet to meet a chi I like. OK, well maybe it is more that they don't like me so it is a mutual thing. They like to nip my feet and ankles and hump my leg and repeatedly bark at a high pitch at me and chase me away from my letterbox and sit smack bang in my driveway causing me to manouvre around them. A large family of these Attichi's have lived across the road for 11 years and there's been no respect for this poor rate payer since day one.

I was reading all the DPI Vic info today and was shocked to see well behaved American Pit Bulls used in the breed identification fact sheet. Some were not attached to a lead and not one was wearing a muzzle. How unsafe the photographer must've felt in the presence of this killing machine of a breed! It's non-sensical really - targetting all APBs as too dangerous to live in society while clearly showing images of actual dogs displaying nothing threatening and not being restrained! Even if those dogs came from another state or country it doesn't make sense to target the whole breed!

It's a sad, sad day for Victoria and Australia. Death by ignorance.

Thank you for clarifying Poodlefan. I knew criminal law was seperate from civil and more likely to have been approved under the agreed parliamentary processes given it does link to harm of others? I obviously don't know all their is to know about the law as it relates to our constitution but find it very interesting and am continuing to develop my understanding of it. My interest was originally around media law and I have to use numerous pieces of state and federal legislation in my job and always find people's (including magistrates) various interpretations of some aspects of it interesting. I also understand Queensland has its own constitution and I am yet to establish in my brain how it links (or doesn't) with the commonwealth constitution.

Poodlefan there is a movement within the farming community, including at least one barrister, challenging state and local council legislation and actions right now in the high courts. They have been steadily doing so for a couple of years now. Mainly farming issues that I know of relating to land use, particularly in NSW. As you would know with law matters that once precendents are set other cases can be fought on the basis of those outcomes. I think the barrister involved is doing lots of pro-bono work for the farmers. I'm not sure how long ago VCAT came in to being in Vic as we had the same thing happen in QLD - we created QCAT only a few years back. I think cases up here are going through QCAT fairly quickly from what I see through work but from a state govt perspective we are still pursuing actions as needed with our clients regardless of what is before QCAT. Say for instance that a foster carer wishes to have a decision reversed regarding a child in care having been removed from their home. The child remains removed and in a different placement and is only returned if QCAT over rules the department's decision. So I am assuming that with a dog it would remain in the 'care' (using that word loosely) of the council until the matter comes before the tribunal and an outcome is made. I certainly wouldn't wish it on any dog but I bet few councils would be set up to care for dogs long term while matters went to VCAT? Perhaps that is a weak point in their plan and we should encourage anyone with a seized animal to appeal through VCAT whatever the outcome? And legislation is civil law (not common law) but was not created according to the agreed processes under the constitution. That is if you recognise the constitution as the defining or over-arching contract or rules for operating this country. Gotta fly - late for a dental appointment.

:thumbsup: So where do you find a constitutional lawyer and how much do they cost ? Contact my sister Sue Maynes at flora dot reachnet dot com dot au She has been assisting barristers with several cases. She is quite well known for speaking about constitutional matters involving farmers in Australia and if you google her name you will find links to her so you can verify that. When I spoke to her about this issue (her son owns an Amstaff and I own a BST here in QLD) she was very interested in what was happening.

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/general/constitution/chapter5.htm The American and Australian constitutions are two different things. Their 'Bill of Rights' is actually an amendment to their constitution (ie where it is the right to bare arms, the right to free speech etc) ours is not necessarily as clear cut as what you see on the TV. The right for states to create a legislature that they enforce is within the Australian constitution. The Federal court will not interfere until all the state courts are exhausted. Ah yes but they are not creating laws, only legislation, and none of what they do should breach our rights under the constitution. The constitution sits over the top.

OK, I spoke to my sister about Australia's Constitution. Australia's Constition is a contract between free people living in this country and the Queen on how these free people chose to be governed by her servants (govt employees). Common Law is seperate to the Constitution but is intertwined as it relates to the operation of our society. Common Law is essentially how the govt deals with harm to the people and the Queen has given authority for her servants/employees to administer this law. The Constitution determines the process to be followed to create 'law', however, no new 'law' has been created in Australia since 1973. Everything else, whether state or local is actually only 'legislation'. Common Law has nothing to do with animal ownership UNLESS your animal harms someone. There is nothing in our Constition saying govt can legislate what you own unless what you own harms others. Local by laws (legislation) have no legitimacy outside the town they are created for. State laws (legislation) have no legitimacy outside their state. They are in essence suggestions for community living and we obey them because we think we have to. Legislation can be changed on a whim and is approved outside what we agreed to under our Constitution so can't be recognised as Common Law or as even constitional in this country. Now can you see why on American crime shows people are always wagging their tongues about something being 'unconstitional'? State and local laws have led to an increase in Civil Law, which is the exact opposite of Common Law. Under Civil Law state and local authorities are basically saying we don't trust you to do the right thing so are going to impose restrictions on you. We are removing your free will/rights and making the decision for you, even before any harm has been committed. Under Australia's Constition our homes are our territories and we are able to do whatever we want and own whatever we want within the confines of our property as long as it does not harm others. Once harm occurs to others then Common Law applies. What is happening now is that council and the state govt are unconstitutionally telling us through legislation how many dogs and even what breed we can keep on our property on the basis that they might cause harm to others in the future, without that harm having even occured. Not only do they not have a right to enforce that but they have no right to tell us what type or breed of animal (let alone dog) we can and can't keep on our properties because that is not the basis of the agreement between the free people of this country and our sovereign. So the problem is whether someone is willing and able to challenge this new legislation on it's constitional aspects as it is certainly going way too far in it's assertion that harm to others will occur by this specific breed and cross breed of dog in the future. They cannot predict that and in effect are causing harm to others themselves and breaching Common Law by pursuing this course of action and seizing/destroying other people's property.

If DNA profiling cannot identify an APBT then how the hell are council officers able to do it with their little checklists? That is just ludicrous! And I also need to get some clarification - are these laws state govt ones created and passed in state parliament for councils across each state to administer or are they local council by-laws? I know there are some people on DOL with legal knowledge but my understanding is that constitional law would still be over and above both state and local laws so if they are breaching constitional rights they could be tested if someone is brave enough and financially fluid enough to do so? My older sister does a lot of constitional law stuff regarding state and local laws placed on farmers that breaches constitional law and there is a group taking cases to the highest court fighting these breaches. I'll have a chat to her about where pets might fit under this as obviously farm animals would be considered differently.

I'm so sorry Ruth. Run free now to your heart's content little one. XXX

We had a beautiful nubian boy called George and he used to even come for drives in the car as well as be in the house whenever he wanted during the day (usually eating the paper or house plants). They are amazing animals and I am so sorry you have lost your boy Jake after such a long life as part of your family. Take care. xxx

I'll be keeping my eye out for a QLD event and inviting everybody I can think of. The government should never turn their backs on pissed off voters. People power is a force to reckon with.

I am so sorry Lizandel. A lot of great dogs have been taken this year and I can only hope they are meeting up at the bridge and having the biggest party! Take care of yourself. Elly will live on in your heart and memories. Alyson XXX

I remember seeing this and meaning to offer Frankie up as a name that a man could use in public. I see you like Harli and Indi as well. I feel like Indi has been done to death but do like Harli as long as other peeps don't think she is named after Harley the motor-bike. I work in child protection and some names I just can't stomach anymore because they get used for children, pets, alcohol, drugs AND machinery!

The snake was around 7 foot - we know that because it slithered up our 6 foot fence and it's head was up in the air off the top while the tail was still on the ground. It was arm thickness. The snake guy my sister got on the phone said the warm weather has brought them out from hibernation so he would've been looking for food. I have noticed a lack of geckos out the back. Would they eat those? I did have an evil thought about it eating the yappy chi who lives across the road! The wounds have scabbed over and the area around it is not hot, red or swollen but I will keep a very close eye on it. She really is terrible 'terrier' can't catch mice, lizards, flies, grasshoppers or even a slow moving, very long snake! It would've made it into the house if my sister hadn't of seen it!

Well if I get to see DOL doggies I'll have to come Saturday too! I can't bring two on my own either so will be by myself.

I have an indestructable SBT. Last night she was impossible to get inside the house. About 10pm my sister discovered a 7 foot carpet python slithering in the plants by the back door. There was a dog pee on the concrete very close to it. There was almost Puppy-Sniffer pee as well! This morning I discovered two scabbed over puncture marks on my dog's lower leg. They weren't red or swollen and I would normally think they were from rough play with our other dog who likes to grab a back leg and flip her, but the puncture wounds are too close together. She is not unwell in any way and has eaten, toileted, played, etc. As python's aren't venomous I wondered if it was a bite from this large snake? Has anyone else had a dog bitten by a carpet python who could share their experience? I googled snake bite images but they all seemed to be poisonous types with swelling etc. I know I have had three spider bites in my life and only one caused me major grief and obvious symptoms.

I am yet to meet a stafford who doesn't have the zoomie gene. I never get tired of watching mine bounce off the furniture so happy doing something so simple. We could learn lots about having fun from our dogs!

I wasn't sure what kind of stories you were after either. My mother and son SBTs (both rescues/failed fosters and both now deceased) saved me after a serious fall down my front stairs that left me injured in all 4 limbs and unconcious. I lived alone on acreage and it would've been a long time till someone found me. One stayed on guard by my side and the other, who was the biggest panicker in the world, ran next door and attracted the attention of my parents (who lived on a property next door). His behaviour and noises were so out of character that they followed him back towards the property fence and realised something must be wrong with me. I hadn't had them that long when it happened and it really changed the relationship the three of us had. When we moved to the suburbs those same two dogs protected me during a home invasion by three men. They realised what was happening before I did, took chase then came straight back to my side without me calling (I was a shaking mess out in the backyard). The worst was that the police couldn't get to me so with the 000 person on the phone and the dogs by my side I had to go back into my house and ensure room by room that the burglars had left and assess the damage and make the house secure. It was the most terrifying experience and I could not have done it without those two. They did no damage to the burglars either - once they were out of the house they were done with them and back with me. Two unwanted 'bull' breed dogs did those two very important things to keep me safe.

I can send my Sept fundraising monies their way. I am committed already for Oct funds but could possibly also do some in November.

OK, I can give you a govt insight as I actually draft and edit things for Queensland parliament as well as for four state govt Ministers in general. I also see the responses prepared to issues from Federal Government Ministers. While the set up here in QLD is slightly different (we have our own constitution) it will be similar. The thing that get the attention and support of your local MP, who in turn pushes the issue on the state Minister in the hot seat for this legislation is people making informed and ongoing complaints. Unfortunately this may only result in this MP raising it in parliament when that Minister is not even in the room or it may result in that MP writing one letter to that specific Minister. Low impact. The next approach is for anybody and everybody to write to the relevant Minister AND the Premier. Don't bother writing to other state Minister's as they will simply refer your letter on. The letters should be similar but not the same. Stick to facts and avoid emotive or finger pointing language. If you can draw it back to studies or legislation it may breach (such as our very own consitutional rights!) then it means someone has to do some actual work to respond to your letter. The reason you should avoid them all being the same is because then all your responses will just be a blanket one. The more factual your letter and the more questions or issues it raises means that the more knowledgeable the person who responds to it needs to be. It might also need to be run past their legal area. I'd be asking them to tell you what process they followed to create this legislation and studies they used to determine this approach would provide the best outcome and was the most enforceable. The more letters there are overall means that the Minister and their Policy Advisor and even the Premier can't fail to notice the public's discontent. Remember they are in power due to public votes! Until you get attention it is unlikely that a Minister or the Premier will agree to meet with you to discuss this in person. Medium to high impact. To maximise impact I suggest you add the following to the point above: 1. Who is the opposing party leader in your relevant state? Meet with them and bombard them with letters because they will be looking for something they can use against the opposing party in Parliament. Public unrest is just the thing. 2. Start a lobby group and build it up to include support from legitimate key bodies but let people lobby independantly as well. People can follow the advice or direction of the group that way so you are all working for the same thing. Remember if they don't have this legislation then what do they do? The lobby group could provide suggestions or even have reps on the board drafting new legislation. 3. Think about events to attract media attention like public marches or even approaching your local community paper to cover good news stories on that dangerous breed. ALL govt depts monitor media in their state, even those little local stories. 4. This is an important one - check if your parliament ever sits in community locations. Here in QLD it is called Community Cabinet. At every Comm Cab there is a chance to meet with the Premier and whatever Minister you wish. These are called deputations. Take advantage of these. Bombard the Comm Cab with requests for meetings on the issue (seperate people of course), wear t-shirts, provide them with studies, whatever you can do to get theirs, the media and the public's attention. Comm Cabs are a lot of work and the Premier and Ministers do not want to be caught out during them. It is likely that they would agree to meet with you more privately on this issue. 4. Be persistent! They need to know you're not going away quietly! They hate that! Even though this is currently happening in other states there is a risk for all of us. If a lobby group gets going then it can be emotive to get public attention but just not to govt as that isn't tangible. I'd love to make a t-shirt up with a gorgeous 'dangerous breed' puppy on the front saying something like "You want to kill my dog?" with details of what's happening on the back. That would get attention. I have a catch phrase going round in my head that is not quite there yet but it is something like "Police dogs? POLICE PEOPLE!"

I feel bad - not long back there were pug pj boxer shorts at my local Kmart for $5 a pair. I meant to log on and tell everyone in case they wanted me to grab them but I forgot....

But greytmate it is still the dogs who ultimately suffer from having crap owners unwilling to register them. Those crap owners will just go on to get another dog when they should have none. Particularly the ones who have just dumped their dogs on the streets so they can't be caught. And heaven forbid if one of those scared dogs bites someone while loose on the street. That will just reinforce that the Vic govt are doing the right thing. I feel like we have learnt nothing from previous experiences. Just cull the victims senselessly and let the perpertrators shift their behaviours to another breed. Which they will. Those dogs didn't choose to be born pit bulls - humans did. And there are numerous examples of the breed being loving pets rather than vicious killers. I agree an unregistered dog (of any breed) is a risk because we can't track the owner if the dog turns up as a stray, if it is hit by a car or if it attacks someone. But to kill a dog because it is a certain breed and unregistered, without any assessment of its aggresiveness or the environment it is homed in is not something I find acceptable because again, the owner doesn't suffer - the dog does. With its life.

I got a puppia harness (or two!) here on DOL for my stafford as she is a wriggler and very strong when she gets over-excited. Bseides choking herself and getting out of collars and a normal harness she has busted a leash handle and the steel clips off a double leash. But I have not even come close to a near escape with the puppia and she is very comfortable in it. I did buy a martingale but have not yet tried it as I seem to be able to control her better when she is in a harness (with the clip on her back rather than at her neck) if she starts being special.

Thank you for posting this. What wonderful heroes they were/are. I also like the comment at the bottom of the second article about some pit bulls who were also search and rescue dogs for 9/11.