justin19801

I must admit I haven't followed this issue closely. What is wrong with docking, debarking and ear cropping if carried out by a vet using anaesthetics. They are carried out world-wide. My understanding is ear cropping was stopped because KGVI didn't like it and de-barking and tail docking simply to attack owners and push breeders, who surprisingly enough love their chosen breed, out of the game. No one does it to inflict pain or injury on the dogs. R$PCA at work again I suspect.

Do you know the affiliations of those on state RSPCA committees? Haven't bothered for a while, but there were PETA members on committees. No I didn't realise this. Thank you for exposing

Of course they are revenue raisers! Don't you understand what revenue is used for? It's used to fund the animal control program. No revenue means a pound cannot be built or maintained, no staff to run it, no food, water or shelter for the stray animals. Yes accidents do happen. Those accidents cost the community money. Go and work in a pound for a week and see how many people come in with the explanation that it was an accident. They may be right, but does that mean they aren't responsible for the cost? I don't believe there is an anti-dog movement. But there is a movement against irresponsible owners. I thought that's what rates were for, Doh! Revenue raising yet dogs are still killed, ACOs still abusing their authority and Councils refusing to supply services our rates pay for. Revenue raising is right. Elect councillors who will fulfill their obligations to ratepayers, not no hopers lining their own pockets.

Fantastic news. Now all we need is someone with the dough to take on the R$PCA.

So many B$L supporters on a dog site, how very interesting. First it started with the APBT, then the Tosa, Dogo and Fila were added, then the Presa, now R$PCA wants the American Bulldog and AST added. Most dogs killed by R$PCA are simply harmless lookalikes (SBT or Lab crosses). Qld councils have banned over a dozen different breeds. And people think their bully breed is safe?

Fines should be there for the irresponsible. Pedestrians don't pay to use footpaths, I don't pay each time council fixes roads, cyclists donn't pay for cycle paths, I don't pay to use the local library; that's what rates are for. The User Pays excuse is simply a deterrent to dog ownership. If ACOs don't like it they should get another job, like street sweeping (which we don't pay for either). All my dogs are chipped but that's because I chose to chip them, there are plenty of cases of chipped dogs being killed and honest citizens being stopped in the street by "I'm a Special Constable you know" types and their dogs scanned when they're not lost. MANDATORY chippining is not about dogs, it's about controlling people. If we don't stand up to politicians who introduce these laws at the behest of groups such as R$PCA then we will ,lose the ability to breed and finally own dogs.

I don't think PETA controls the RSPCA, they are actually competitors for the public's dollar, their beliefs are the same though. Ingrid is honest enough to spell out her agenda. My experience is the RSPCA tells people what they believe they want to hear, contradicting themselves if it means more money flowing in and doing what they do best, killing dogs. Don't be fooled by the TV stars. Apart from that I believe you are spot on with your assessment.

This from an organisation which kills dogs in numbers too large to ever imagine. As Stalin said, one death is a trgedy, a million deaths is a statistic. What will happen to all these dogs and what will happen to dog ownership if people don't act. It's fine to raise the issue in forums but do we have the collective "bottle" to do something about it? The usual suspects will no doubt criticise my views, as is their right, but their holier than thou attitudes are what helps to drive these policies.

Despite some holier than thou responses these are absurd. The fines are just revenue raisers. Dogs get out, are let out etc. Accidents happen. Unless you are a habitual offender you should get a warning. There is an anti-dog movement in this country and this is one of the ways they enforce their views. Mandatory microchipping is not about controlling dogs but about controlling you.

4 years down the track and nothing has changed. You'd think by now if that was the case, that someone would have successfully challenged it. . Few people I know of have $50,000 + dollars to spare in case they lose a court case. One of the reasons APBT owners were targetted, they are not the affluent white middle-class capable of fighting such cases. The Victorian RSPCA is on record as wanting all APBTs seized and killed. Lobbying is no doubt occuring behind the scenes and will eventually occur. Most victims will be Staffy, Ridgeback and Lab crosses but that doesn't seem to bother them. Australia does not have a Bill of Rights so governments can basically pass whatever laws they want. As they are political laws they need to be fought politically. By hitting BSLs supporters in the hip pocket it is a start. Tas and SA have elections this w/e and dog owners could have played their role. The "My Dog Votes" campaign in the US four years ago helped unseat a US Senator who could have successfully challenged Obama last year. Unfortunately the woman running the campaign has had to stop and get on with her life. The media couldn't believe she was a successful business woman who decided to fight BSL off her own bat and tried to discredit her as a front for more powerful interests. So it can be done, it just takes time and money.

I wouldn't have thought it was possible to do so but I guess in the end people have to do what is in the best interests of their dog, not any organisation that has thrown them to the winds and even helps train breed assessors, for a breed they claim doesn't exist. A better way would be to hit the supporters of BSL in the hip pocket. I resigned from the ALP and will only send funds to Best Friends, not the RSPCA. BSL varies in severity around Australia and the RSPCA wants all APBTs seized and killed as they have finally agreed BSL hasn't worked to eliminate the breed because of outlaw owners. So people will do what is req'd to save their dogs. I might not be happy with it but I find it hard to criticise it.

The internet was not as prvasive then as it is now so it's difficult to google info on it. The media and RSPCA called the dog a pitbull but the person who put the dog down said it was a lab x. Unfortunately as usual no photo of the dog was available. The APBT people took the cas to the media council and for biased reporting and were knocked back. Many other people have been killed by other breeds but, of course no sympathy is shown for those victims. There is no mileage to be made.

Personally, once I've paid for a dog I believe it's mine. If there is a breeders contract perhaps it's legally enforceable, perhaps not, I don't know.. Personally it has happened so do you want to lose a friend? This may be a good time to educate her about desexing however 5 minutes googling will show her that pet overpopulation is largely mythical. If she was being cruel, that's another matter. In the end it's her dog and no-one elses business.

APBTS are a restricted breed which must be muzzled in public. Add insurance/liability issues and you might have more sympathy for their position. APBTs and ASTs are NOT the same breed in the eyes of the law. Of course if you have no papers to prove your dog is an AST, you're in a world of hurt. I'd suggest these people talk to their council and arrange a temperament test. If you need a piece of paper to tell the difference, that says it all.

Agree. Perhaps dog and horse groups could come up with a joint submission amenable to both.

This is not a new story. It doesn't seem to have hurt them because they rely on the grandaddy excuse of them all, they care about the animals they kill, sorry end their suffering. They even had a mobile killing van picking up dogs to rehome and killing them. They were found guilty of littering as they dumped the bodies in skips! But they do care about whales so they can't be all bad.

How utterly tragic. Two dogs will die because of the owners attitude. People should be made accountable for the actions of their dogs. Unfortunately governments and their animal hating supporters will use such tragedies to attack dog owners in general. And as usual we will stand idly by and allow them to do so.

I don't disagree with much of what you say. However to save repeating myself and not wanting to get into an arguement we'll just have to agree to disagree. We should be exerting our energies into fighting BSL. The dogs are voiceless in this climate of hate and rely on us to defend them not bicker amongst ourselves. The powers that be see them all as the same breed and want to extend BSL to cover all three which they will eventually succeed unless we can stop them by opposing and denying support to it's proponents.

ASTs and APBTs are dual registered in the States, every 30 years due to the small gene pool and serious genetic problems AKC opens it's stud books to APBTs, I guess that's coz their the same breed? But then I could be wrong. Until the 1970s SBTs and ASTs were inter bred between KC and AKC dogs. Again coz they're the same. Dogfighters such as Pete Sparkes who was a breeder more than a fighter interbred all three and complained when people called them different breeds. All three can be traced back, if you have papers which I assume you have, to SBTs imported by Colby et al. ADBA issues APBT papers for Australian registered ASTs if they can trace their pedigrees back to AST imports. Ontario, Denver and every other municipipality and country that bans them except Aust & NZ call them the same breed. The UK calls ASTs and APBTs the same breed. Everywhere else where people have tried to differentiate them has failed because they are the same breed. Only a tiny fraction of the breed has been abused by dogfighters. They are just dogs. Visually different strains within the breed/s are impossible to differentiate. The stds used to judge, depending on the club and fashion, results in differing looks, but they still vary enormously. Longer-legged KC registered SBT are known as Irish Staffies. All this is not rocket science, just plain fact. Authors more knowledgeable than you or I such as Gordon call the SBT a Pit Bull! Two English owners couldn't believe what they saw in the showring here were the same breed as what they had in the UK. Photos of their dogs showed dogs slightly smaller than APBTs. Rather than navel gazing and pretending they each have something no one else has we should be accepting reality and uniting to fight BSL, because it's proponents are our enemies, not who considers the uniqueness or otherwise of their breed. Most dogs being killed by ACOs and animal rights orgs are in fact SBT crosses. Most status dogs which the UK government is moving against are again, SBT crosses labelled as APBT-type. The SBT is also now in the medias cross hairs here. We are being picked off one by one while we fail to accept reality. We can agree to disagree but the dogs are the losers. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please cite. I am more than happy to be convinced otherwise.

Touche, ouch!!! Except for the SBT, AST and APBT not being the same breed. IMO they are. I won't bore people by rehashing the reasons why but simply say Aust & NZ are the only countries in the world who say they're not the same. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Too right but it will travel here as those opposed to pet ownership see it as another tool to decrease pet ownership and control people through their pets.

Too right but it will travel here as those opposed to pet ownership see it as another tool to decrease pet ownership and control people through their pets.

Most people who claim to own APBTs don't know their dogs bloodlines so it is impossible to know if they came from game tested stock. Even if they did the gameness would be lost unless continually selected for. APBT owners simply own a dog. Supporters of BSL are the ones who have a case to answer in relation to status dogs; as they are the ones who have encouraged irresponsible owners. But why should they care, BSL doesn't affect their breed of choice ... YET!!!

Apart from a small number of dogs APBTs have never been bred for gameness. Since they are the same breed as the SBT and AST (dual registered as well) they will never disappear as long as those breeds don't. Eventually all dogs breeds will suffer because of the endless infighting and navel gazing that dog owners indulge in rather than uniting to fight BSL and it's proponents. Even worse the victims of dog attacks will continue to grow as they do everywhere bsl is introduced further placing all dog ownership at risk.