justin19801

And I suppose that is why the UK only recognise the SBT then????????? Where ARE you from? Unbelievable statements...... p.s. my research is not limited to 'ANKC pap either'. Opinion, fine. Facts lacking. Probably believe EBT (miniature, white and coloured) are different breeds . The Boston Terrier has common ancestry and is a different breed, but SBT, AST and APBT are not for the reasons already stated. You almost make whippets sound authoratative!!!! :D

Many dogs of unknown parentage, including STB without papers have been seized by Brisbane City Council. However, I believe they are not seizing as many at the moment. Your rights are - if they come for your dog, they must have the correct paperwork, and you can fight the claim that he is a restricted breed. Do not let them take the dog without seeing the paperwork. Information re the paperwork should be on the council's website. You should register him with the council as a STB. It would also be a very good idea to contact the people who sold him to you, and get them to write a statutory declaration saying he is a STB. Plus, if possible, take photos of the parents, and have the breeders state in the stat dec that the dogs in the photos are the parents. Also have your vet write a letter saying that he is an STB. This will not guarantee his safety 100%, but may help if there is a problem. There are very few solicitors who have any idea about this. The only thing which currently provides 100% safety for STB in Qld is an ANKC registration certificate, so if you bought the dog from a registered breeder, do go and get the papers, or at least the parents' papers. Do they need any paperwork in Qld Jed? It's my understanding they can enter your house on the belief you own an APBT? Your right about lawyers though. Even the civil rights lawyers were ignorant of Chapter 17 entry and seizure laws. The law has changed but not had time to read it all yet.

Must be so comforting to know the world is wrong and hence one is right. History speaks for itself. SBT=APBT=AST. Dogfighters know it, lawyers know it, judges know it, politicians know it, students of the breed know it, except for those who limit their research to ANKC pap. Better to fight BSL rather than argue what "breed" one's dog falls under. Especially as without papers they are all PB-types anyway. Only BSL supporters or breed supremecists argue the point.

A sanitised version of what dogs have had to endure. For each success there are thousands of failures. Even Pavlov's dogs required operations to attach special tubes. From memory Thalidomide was tested in dogs and found to be safe, though I could be wrong on that one. Animals metabolise and excrete drugs differently to humans so it's more of a medico-legal thing than a research tool to advance science. We tested it in animals and it didn't prove to be fatal!!!

This is beyond belief that it could happen in Australia in this day and age. This sick individual needs to be caught. Someone must suspect something. As for the R$PCA BS about crossing with APBTs and dogfighting, where is the evidence? This inividual will not stop here and other dogs are at risk until he is removed from society. There is always the risk, low as it may be, that this SF graduates to human abuse.

Apart from supporting BSL and not knowing the difference between bought and brought, a common problem, attacking peoples religious beliefs says more about the attacker than the believers. Ever read the bible? Make fun of that as well. Hate speech like the BSL supporters.

The SBT, AST and APBT are one and the same breed. Only Australia and NZ claim they are different as do people who limit their research to ANKC pseudo-histories. If your SBT is the longer legged SBT then it is at risk unless you can prove the parantage through DNA testing. You can't prove breed but it may come back as a Collie which can't hurt. Most PB-types killed throughout Australia are actually SBT crosses. The latest SC case may put a dampener on things for a while, then the whole sorry BSL fiasco will start again. Your dog will then be an AST cross which the law now states is a APBT cross.

The biggest danger is that a breed assessment can't be challenged in court. This infringes all our rights and makes the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan seem a bigger farce than they already are. ANKC should be challenging this, not training assessors for a breed they claim doesn't exist.

Why does it matter? Purebred or crossbred, or one breed or another? At the end of the day it is a dog. Whilever we keep focussing on the name of a breed when a dog bites somebody all we are doing is feeding a media frenzy and bolstering people's negative opinions of any one breed of dog. Souff Souff is right. However since the media and politicians care about breed it is incumbent on them to get it right. Perhaps then they will appreciate all breeds are potentially dangerous.

Ask Swiss dog owners whether it can happen or not. Souff is right, dog ownership is in the cross-hairs and only one thing will save it, unified action. But as is continually shown here, that is the only thing thats not "gonna happen".

Wouldn't surprise me if it was someone reacting to govt and R$PCA anti-pit bull hysteria. If these animals can do this to a dog one would have to wonder what they could do to humans. Take a bow R$PCA another PB-type you don't have to deal with.

I agree with this, if we could stick together and threaten to vote elsewhere, the gov would take notice, particularly in marginal seats. The labour party has been and is responsible for BSL, and for other bans affecting dogs. Incidentally, I believe the Qld govt under the labour party, was the first state government to introduce BSL. Please correct me if I am wrong. From memory the first BSL was introduced by federal ALP then SA followed by Carr in NSW (Muzzling dogs only). As BSL didn't work other more stringent laws ended up being passed. BSL distracted from the incompetence of the state governments, gave the R$PCA free publicity on how they were saving society from the APBT and the ANKC gave it's full support as it didn't include their breeds until now. In my considered political opinion Carr used it as a distraction to cover 10 years of mismanaging NSW and his retirement as a consultant to a company benefitting from govt contracts. The issue of BSL is a good example of distraction, wedge politics and triangulation for those interested in politics; which of course is very few. Qld actually allows warrantless searches which strikes at the heart of our democratic system. Once in your house the police can then find probable cause for anything they like, whether you have a dog or not.

Dogs are voiceless and can't say they've been tormented, are in pain etc. Yes owners should be held accountable for the actions of their dogs but killing the dog and moving on will not prevent the next attack or those opposed to pet ownership like the R$PCA. Only by investigating attacks and basing laws on facts, not fiction, can we change things.

What is the point? It was a dog. It could have been a crossbred dog or a purebred dog., I no longer care. Like most of the rest of the world I am totally fed up with people allowing their dogs to be out of control. Breed? What frigging breed? They all have teeth and the more powerful the dog, the more damage it can do. Some of my greatest loves in dogs are large powerful breeds, that are gentle giants to me, but I know that without the proper supervision and training these dogs too can be killers. You are right when you state that dog owners are under attack like never before, and while ever little kids and other dogs are getting chewed up by other peoples dogs, the situation will remain the same. I am expecting a new law anytime soon: "All dogs must be muzzled". And you can thank the stupid owners who don't give a rats about anyone but themselves and their dogs for such a law, if and when it happens. Souff Simply blaming the owner when dogs may be unwell or tormented by kids will not solve the problem. All serious attacks need to be investigated to find common pathways based on fact not supposition to decrease future attacks. You may think you know it all, You Don't.

Too right, it was a tradgedy whatever the breed. That's why we need an investigative unit to look into all attacks and come up with reasons so we can avoid, in future, based on facts not suppositition. Unfortunately supporters of BSL have no compassion for victims of breeds other than alleged APBTs.

I am of the opinion that after 60 years of separate breeding for different attributes the APBT and AMStaffy’s are two different breeds. AMStaff’s have been bred for Shows and family pets. Not for fighting attributes. They started from the same breed but I believe they are two distinctly different dogs now. From the dogs I have seen AMStaffy’s are generally heavier with a larger head and are crazy goofy cuddly sooks. I am not saying APBT’s are not affectionate but the hand full of pure breeds I have met have been lovely but more reserved and stern. They looked taller but they may have been just because they had a more athletic build opposed to the wide appearance of the AMStaff. The dogs I have seen were never side by side. I know they are many with a difference of opinion and arguments for both sides but the majority of breeders of each breed agree they are two different breeds and will not x bred them. I can’t remember the names but there are two particular guys that have been going at this argument for years. Both have released publishments on the topic. One relies on historical documents and the other is a Dr relying on science. What I took away from both sides of the argument was a lot of the historical information was a bit vague and was getting interpreted the way he wanted it to sound. This was the pro APBT & AST being the same breed side of the argument. The Dr’s argument saying they are too different breeds now seemed a lot more factual. The UKC considers them the same breed and will accept them to be dual registered as APBT and AMStaffy’s but the AKC will not accept UKC registered APBT to be registered as AMStaffy’s or vice versa. Good read from a respected APBT breeder in the US: http://www.southernpitbulls.com/history.html http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bull-and...ier-breeds.html This is my opinion and I am not forcing it upon anyone. I think people should do there own research and form their own opinion. Due to the smaller gene pool AKC has opened it's stud books to UKC registered APBTs on at least three occasions, not to mention the initial dogs coming from fighting stock.

Do you work for PETA by any chance? It is you and PETA who support BSL, pas mois.

Perhaps farmers need to adequately fence. If they can't afford too perhaps farming is not their game. BTW what the heck has this to do with farmers anyhow???

good result to prove he's neither. in reality dna is only useful for parentage. i've been told most ast come back as apbt anyway.

So the supreme caser was won, what does that mean for BSL ? Is it going to go away now ? I doubt it. The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise. They need a distraction for their unwillingness to provide pilots for the GBR oil boats. Why the hard on to lump these breeds Into one If I remember correctly you also want to add the SBT In there too! I just don't get It, I think atm people need too work hard on making sure the Am Staff DOES NOT get added to the BSL list, then when this hurdle Is gone, we can start to concentrate on abolishing BSL again. To me the more breeds are added the god damn harder It's going to get to try and do anything about It I love the APBT but I absolutely would hate to see anyone else breed go through as what the APBT people have to go through, lumping them all In the same basket ain't going to do anyone any good! And In this Instance I don't care what the rest of the world classes them all as :D ETA: The debate on whether they are the same Is always going to have die hard fans that say yes, and the ones that say no No new breeds have been added to the BSL list. The judge merely agreed with what the rest of the world already knows. Distancing the "breeds" hasn't worked anywhere else and has now failed here. Exactly what APBT owners have been saying for years. Better to end breed discrimination full stop. Any AST breeder that sells their dogs as different to APBTs is in my view being highly irresponsible, in Qld at least.

Two identical gendered dogs, no matter what the age, is a potential disaster. Under no circumstances let them sort it out themselves unless you are prepared to have one lose an eye, tongue, ear etc. The GD appears from what you said to be the dominant one so I would feed them together with the GD eating first, then the GSD, after you had eaten a biscuit. These dogs need to see you as pack leader and you will need to exercise them daily as a tired dog is a happy dog. Being so large you may have to take them for extended bike rides one at a time. My bitches will still fight if allowed to do so unsupervised while our boy looks on in amusement (typical :D ). IMO they can never be left alone together unsupervised. Do take them to dog obedience. They may seem best of friends at times, and they probably are, but no dominant animal will fight over everything, just the important stuff or they would risk injury. If you can afford $300 per hour from someone with dubious qualifications then do so. Otherwise people at dog obedience may be able to help. There are also good internet sites with plenty of info, but requires the right diagnosis. Please let us know what you did and how you got on.

The bit about him being able to go home isn't right. Yes the Court found him to be an AST. But they also found that AST=APBT. So by being an AST he is also a Pit Bull, and therefore restricted. In effect they found him to be both breeds as they decided the breeds were one and the same. That's how I read it. If APBT owners are going to be discriminated against it won't be long before one takes up a case forcing councils to enforce the law against ASTs. Better to fight BSL and have it overturned before that happens.

It appears to me that Dogs Qld are up to their old tricks, opposing BSL for ASTs but supporting it for APBTs. If they think this will save them they are mistaken. The two are one and the same breed and will continue to cost councils money defending until they too decide it's easier to sacrifice the AST. The following buyer Beware advice from DOL won't help It is extremely important to ensure you are buying a papered pedigree dog from a reputable breeder. This is very important when purchasing Amstaffs since Breed Specific Legislation was passed in Australia. If you are buying a Amstaff puppy and the breeders cannot provide pedigree papers for your individual puppy, you will be taking the risk of your local council seizing your new puppy and identifying him/ her as a pitbull/ pitbull cross. If one needs a piece of paper to tell the difference, well, it says it all. Better to fight BSL.

This data is relative to the amount off dogs in the area. If the higher percentage of all dog owners in that area have Pit Bulls obviously more Pit bulls are going to be responsible for the attacks. This document could very easily be misleading. The number off all the breeds would need to be averaged out in to equal percentages to get a true indication if one of the breed is more likely to attack than the next. The CDC data also relies on media reports of the breed involved, not particularly statistically accurate.

So the supreme caser was won, what does that mean for BSL ? Is it going to go away now ? I doubt it. The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise. They need a distraction for their unwillingness to provide pilots for the GBR oil boats.