Chocolatelover

Bit slow this has been the case for about 20 years now - Its how hundreds a month go out via transpet to a pet shop in Hawaii, its why pet shop people are telling us that most of their puppies come from registered breeders , its why Dogs NSW backed PIAA against Clover Moore's bill. Wow! I didn't know that. No wonder it is so hard for breeders doing the right thing! I'm beginning to think I'd prefer to buy from an "unregistered" ethical breeder who health tests and does the right thing by the dogs. Do you know if this applies to all the states Steve?

Apparently they are only focused on trashing "registered breeders".

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/11/28/Puppy_dealer_fined_34000_820884.html Puppy dealer fined $34,000 28 Nov 2012 - 12:00am A backyard dog dealer has been permanently banned from keeping more than one dog and fined $34,000 after being convicted of 17 animal cruelty charges. Fay Marie Armstrong, who kept dogs at her home in the Perth suburb of Spearwood and a rural property, was also ordered to pay court costs of $9507 after charges were brought against her by WA Consumer Protection in Perth Magistrates Court on Tuesday. The charges followed the execution of a search warrant on two properties in October 2010, which found dogs and puppies in poor health and living in appalling conditions. The court heard seven dogs were kept in small airline travel crates in one bedroom of the Spearwood property, where there was a strong urine smell and little fresh air. All the animals were malnourished and dehydrated and one was suffering from a serious eye injury. At the rural property, inspectors found kennels covered in faeces and water bowls polluted with urine, faeces and dead flies. WA consumer protection commissioner Anne Driscoll said keeping animals in such conditions was unacceptable. 'We welcome the Courts decision to ban Ms Armstrong from keeping more than one dog which curtails her dog selling activities,' Ms Driscoll said. 'We would caution consumers to only deal with reputable breeders and demand to see a veterinarians report or to have pets they plan to purchase examined or certified by a veterinarian to help ensure they are healthy at the time of sale.'

Cows/sheep/horses cause a lot of environmental damage as hooved animals are not native to Australia. They are also very energy intensive to raise when you look at how many people you can feed from one cow. I couldn't really imagine a dog killing a cow so am not sure beef is an essential part of a dog's diet. Roo/rabbit would probably be a better source of protein, and better for the environment and the animal probably had a more natural life in the wild. My dog in PNG when I was growing up was feed mackerel and rice and vegetable scraps. Very healthy all her life, rarely saw a vet and even survived eating rat poison. And factory farming is not something you just read about on the internet - it is real. Pigs and chickens in particular suffer greatly in the quest to increase profits. Very sad

I'll give it a go - bearing in mind I work in human pathology not animal :) A titre test determines how many times you can dilute the plasma, blood or serum (whatever is being tested) before the antibody is diluted out and can no longer be detected. The theory is that the higher the titre the better immunity the animal has to that disease. Some people will tell you there is no correlation however I think the difficulty arises because of the variable nature of antibodies. There are some diseases where there is no correlation - I think (from memory) that leptospirosis may be one of these. The antibody test will actually only tell you whether the dog has contracted the disease and not give an indication of their immunity. But for others, like parvo and distemper, they can be quite accurate at predicting whether a dog is low or high risk. The accuracy is not 100% (science is never exact) but I suppose you need to weigh the pros/cons of vaccination over the risks of the accuracy of the titre test. In my work we measure titre levels in pregnant women who have made antibodies against their baby's blood, which can put the unborn baby at risk if not monitored and treated if necessary. One thing we do find is for some antibodies there is poor correlation between the antibody titre and the risk to the baby. For other antibodies there is good correlation. Some antibodies are definitely more "active" than others, even at lower levels, so this does question the simplicity of "high titre = good immunity". And to complicate matters more - even if antibody levels do drop off and become undetectable, we have cells in our blood that have will make the antibody a lot quicker the second time an animal is exposed to a certain disease. So it may be that once immunity is established the animal would have life long immunity anyway BUT not all vaccines produce this life long immunity. Live vaccines are better at providing life long immunity than inactivated vaccines (immunity usually drops off and boosters are needed) so it also depends on the type of vaccine available for a particular disease. Anyway, not sure if that helped or made it more complicated - probably the latter :) Vaccines have prevented more deaths than any other medical procedures so I guess we should value their contribution to the health of both humans and animals whatever we decide.

I work in a transfusion lab - AB neg can have A neg, B neg, O neg or AB neg with no ill effects. A negative person can even have positive blood provided they have no antibodies and are not a female in child bearing age. It is usually the O neg people that get into strife. Maybe there is just an overall shortage, which often happens, especially as it is flu season. The person may also have antibodies which makes matching blood more difficult. Hope they find suitable blood whatever the case!! Keetamouse - the RH negative is just the negative bit. You would also be either A, B, AB or O. An O negative person would be O (Rh)D negative.

Well, I think we've been had!!! By Monday morning he had made a miraculous recovery and was pretty much back to normal. Whimpering had stopped and back to hogging the bed and dragging his toys out all over the house. I really don't know what was going on with him!! You would have sworn he was on death's door if you had seen him the day before We have been giving him the anti-inflammatory tablets although only one left so he will be going cold turkey after tomorrow evening. Thanks for all your help and vet suggestions which will come in useful for future use. The vet did suggest that HD can present as acute flare-ups and X-rays may still be warranted if it happens again?? he just overdid it with the zoomies. Thanks again!

I left a message with the lady DeltaCharlie recommended otherwise will try Allan if I can get in tomorrow night. Thanks everyone :) I think an obstruction has been ruled out??? They did an abdominal X-ray at the emergency vet and she couldn't see anything. I have been giving him the laxative that vet gave me since last night. He also had an anti-inflammatory/pain killer last night which were prescribed by the second vet. He did a tiny poo this morning but it was quite hard and crumbly considering he is on laxative I might take the day off tomorrow and see if we can get a more definitive answer.

Thanks everyone :) He is sill whimpering but he did a little poop as well. Thanks for the number DeltaCharlie, I will call as I definately think he has hurt himself now. I woke up this morning to find him sleeping next to me (while my husband was on the couch downstairs :D ). When he was ready to get down he just stood and whimpered, but he managed to get up OK. He used the stairs pretty gingerly too. He stills seems restless and like he is trying to tell me something with his constant whimpering. Where is a dog whisperer when you need one? :)

You mean the way they bow down with their front paws whe sticking their bum in the air???? He does that quite al lot normally but not since he has been uncomfortable. It seems like it takes him a while to psych himself into lying down, hence the restlessness.

K9angel - no hasn't pooed yet after his dinner and not weeing as much as usual either. He keeps wanting to go out, then in, then out - can't make up his mind. Still whimpering constantly too. My husband is sleeping downstairs with him cause we have narrow stairs and don't want him going up and down In case it is his back. I just came upstairs to see if he will settle once all the lights are out. We thought of a tick last night as he seemed quite disorientated and wobbly in his hind legs. Felt him all over. I hate this feeling when you know something isn't right but don't know what it is. Our last pup was only four months old, took him to emergency vet late at night after he jumped off the couch and yelped, they sent him home with a pain shot, took him back next morning and he died six hours later from fluid on the lungs. Our two year old lab before that, the kids found him dead one morning on his bed. Autopsy showed congenital heart condition and he was apparently a "ticking time bomb" I was only thinking how lucky we had been with Tazer the other day that he had made it past the three year mark!! I really couldn't bear anything happen to him - and I don't want him to suffer any pain. I am thinking either he hurt his spine/hips or possibly something stuck in his bowel. He ate his dinner Ok and no vomiting or drooling so probably the former. Maybe I just need to insist on some hip and spinal X-rays. Sorry for long post. Feel so helpless and obviously thinking the worst Thanks for the suggestions - definitely in need of another opinion.

Thanks! I will have a look and see what I can find. Probably not going to be open till Monday though I guess ETA We're in Nicholls but I don't mind having to drive.

Well $800 later still don't know what is wrong. We picked him up at 5 - bloods mostly ok and given anti-inflammatories for five days. Now he just whimpers constantly and is restless and won't settle, it is breaking my heart The vet said to bring him back after five days if he is still uncomfortable but I don't think I could stand five days of this!! I want to help him so much but don't know what to do for him. He seems in so much pain. Does anyone have any ideas of what I could do for him? Can hip dysplasia come on so acutely?

Thank you :) I ended up googling so we could be waiting when the doors opened and came up with Canberra Vet Hospital. They kept him to run some blood tests but they are not sure Just need to be patient now I guess.

Can anyone recommend a good vet? Something is terribly wrong with my labrador, Tazer. Took him to the emergency vet last night, did X-rays and gave him pain relief and enema and said he was "possibly" constipated. But this morning he is miserable, can barely walk and is whimpering continually. I would prefer to try a different vet with different ideas but we haven't been to one here yet. I am beside myself that we are going to lose him. Been through it twice and can't do it again. Anyone know a good vet open on a Saturday who would see us?

I work in a human pathology laboratory and delayed centrifugation (where they seperate the cells from the serum) of a blood sample can cause a rise in potassium. Another specimen problem is haemolysis (where some of the blood cells break open) due to a difficult collection. We often see potassium levels that are raised and the doctor will retest in a couple of months and things have returned to normal. If it is trending upwards it can be a sign of decreasing kidney function as a patient ages but you would probably see other abnormalities with creatinine/urea. Hyperkalemia (high potassium) can also be asymptomatic with no clinical significance. If everything else is fine I wouldn't worry too much, just something to keep an eye on :) Hope that helps.

There is a lot of focus on humanity. There is welfare (and plenty of it), government agencies and many organisations people can go when they are in need. Animals are not so lucky. I do not believe that humans should be given the benefit of the doubt while cases are being investigated - it is good that the animals is removed until it is deemed there is no risk. Why should a dog have to endure many more months of cruelty or neglect just so that no humans are upset in the process. I realise what this forum is now. It is not for people who love dogs. It is a "registered" breeders forum and people will support them no matter what. They stick by their own right or wrong, even it is at the expense of an animals well-being. Even when you lock your animals in a cage and deprive them of the basic necessities of life, as long as they are a breeder god help anyone who tries to bring them down. Doesn't matter about trying to find out any other facts or information - of course it's not their fault, they are a breeder. Why does someone need to debark so many of their dogs anyway? Should she be breeding dogs that have such a predispostion to barking that they need surgery? Did she try exercise? Training? Mental stimulation? How does she afford to have her dogs debarked when she has is broke? Totally agree that the vet should be punished as well. Some people argued on a blog I read that debarking is no different to desexing. I am "sterilised", I put myself through the same thing I did my dog. Would I debark myself, my children - I don't think so. But it's OK for a dog because it suits our purpose. So many unanswered questions for me that I would need more detail for before I could have an opinion. Oh, but she was a breeder - so she is absolved from all wrong doing. Thirteen dogs is a lot. A lot to feed, a lot to walk, train and socialise. Especially when you're broke. Many breeders on this DOL have litter after litter after litter - are they keeping a dog from every litter since each generation is supposedly an improvement on the breed? Doubtful. Do they carefully screen each and every home. Doubtful since many fly interstate. But hey, as long as you are registered that's OK. Do what you want and have as many litters as you want. Oh and the hypocrisy doesn't end there. If you read a BSL thread then you come out with the idea then it's the deed not the breed. So it is the irresponsible owners that are making their dogs act like this, nothing to do with the breed. BUT, read a thread where a person is being rejected for a pup because she has children and all of a sudden it's because the temperament and genetics of the dog are the most important. So which is it? And if it is nurture then why do people have to wait three years to a dog that is picked out for their family??? Raise it right, do the hard work and the research and reap the rewards. I grew up in a third world country where our family dog was a stray pup picked of the streets. (In fact I grew up surrounded by all sorts of dogs - although I have been accused on this forum of having limited life experience.) Her temperament was very similar to the dogs I have now. So personally I probably side with the nurture side of the debate. But that is my opinion which counts for little since I am not a "breeder" and just a lowly average "joe blow". Oh remember when trying to get a dog through rescue you will be judged if you don't let your dogs inside. So I hope some of the breeders that defend their reasons for not letting their dogs inside don't ever want a dog from rescue. Apparently you are not a good enough home. I have no interest in breeding. I am a pet/dog lover and represent the general public. So I wonder how many people you turn away becasue of your biased morales and judgements and self righteousness. Many I would guess. I won't be back. Obviously. Not really interested anymore in reading what you think of me either. And I certainly won't be recommending this site again. Not even sure I will even go down the registered breeder path again. I have no doubt that means little to you and life will go on but at least I know where I stand and what I believe in. Animals have no voice. They have no choices. Humans have a voice. And many choices. They are responsible for the choices they make and the situation the end up in. The animals are innocent pawns and deserve every opportunity at the best possible life. Thank you for helping me to see the light

Tacky, CL, very tacky. Trick is for people to make sure WHAT nominated charity or cause they want to be collected for at the church ...... BEFORE THEY BECOME the "newly departed". Sometimes the grieving family haven't been given any prior instructions and because the ND liked animals it goes this way, when in fact the "newly departed" may have preferred it to go elsewhere. Oh and still no sign of the post that Souff I am still finding it difficult to comprehend you are calling me tacky after you instigated and continued the jokes about "telling the families where the money should go". And on top of that, you now claim that you know better than the family where the "newly departed" would have wanted their money to go!!! I will ensure my will is iron clad. Some people need to take a good look in the mirror before they start name calling. Thanks mita for a great post It was informative and unbiased and has really got me thinking. I admire your dedication to changing the status quo and your committment to improving certain aspects of the RSPCA. I recently read a great report commissioned by RSPCA Australia from the U of Q CAWE. Very inspiring and made me feel more hopeful for the future of animals.

I'm am not the tacky one. Would still like see the all enlightening post that is going to set me on the straight and narrow.

I see you too are a fellow cynic YEP !!! I wonder if all those dear little old rich ladies who have left them massive bequests over the years, ever thought their money would be used to hunt down good people while strays and needy animals are left to fend for themselves. fifi And those families of the newly departed who say "no flowers, envelopes for RSPCA donations will be at the church" also need to be told too. *nods*. That's my job I steer people elsewhere too - a dog saved is a dog saved, and if it is saved from an ethical rescue, so much better. Support what you believe in, don't support what you don't. Chocolatelover I believe you asked the question some time ago and were referred to various threads via the search engine. If you didn't read them, that's fine, but don't complain about a "mysterious DOL cloud" because you didn't put in the effort to satisfy your question. Sorry obviously missed it. Could you just highlight the post that referred me to various threads via the search engine. I think I missed it and would live to read them

And I'm sure that is a wonderful opportunity to bash the RSPCA Jed - get 'em while they're grieving at their loved ones funeral The politics involved in this is just mind boggling.

Doesn't take in strays ?? So the stray pointer I adopted from them 5 weeks ago , what is he then, temporarily homeless ? between homes ? He was a stray taken in by them !! Are you sure? Watch out - they might be back for him to gain some media attention!!!!! :D

Yes, I totally agree with this statement. I am a fence sitter with the issue of the RSPCA. I acknowledge there are issues, but I am also not afraid to acknowledge the good they do. I think we're all doing pretty well here having a rational discussion and Im certainly not afraid to acknowledge the good they do but surely that doesn't mean that we have no right to speak of the things we think they muck up. The minute anything is said -because some have made up their mind that open discussion which doesn't support something they have done equals a hatred for them - we get bogged into "you have nothing to say I'm interested in because you hate them" Chocolatelover can tell us about a case which may have meant they had done something they shouldn't re a rescue horse and thats O.K. because we don't think she hates the RSPCA but if I bring a news story here and don't even make a comment on it I hate the RSPCA even though over and over I say I don't and I support them in what they do - just not all some of them do. And I know there is no point in going after them because its the system that needs the reform. No matter which group was elected to be a quasi police force with no adequate safety to ensure people are treated justly over any area of society, no matter whether they do a great job or not I would not make donations to them and I would watch them for evidence of corruption or injustice to try to push for law reform because its a flawed system. Some of us are more exposed to more cases because of the area we work or play in - just because someone knows of more instances that doesn't necessarily mean what they have to say is untrue or not rational. Why do people just keep honing in one thing without seeing the bigger picture. That point was to illustrate that I am aware they do things that people don't agree with. I only read the media side - I never spoke to anyone from the RSPCA about it. There is always two sides to every story so I try to keep an open mind about things. Many of you on here don't - you automatically assume the RSPCA is at fault. In the last thread you automatically assumed the RSPCA was victimising some poor, defenceless, mentally ill lady. There were not enough facts in the story to really make a judgement, but naturally you assumed the worst of the RSPCA. And it happens time and time again. And apparently you know of many cases where the RSPCA have been in the wrong - but no one will let me know where I can learn about them. There is just this mysterious DOL cloud that surrounds them and "what they have done'.

I don't quite understand this statement. Respect for whom or what? Glad it's not just me Anne