MonElite

I dont know if thats of any use or if that is correct but... If I take Rex somewhere and he is interested in god knows what He just ends up on lead and not allowed to do what he wants. I dont correct in any way (verbally including) He just has 1m of lead and after a short tantrum of "but I want to go there, or there or sniff this or that" he just gives up and says - you stubborn b*tch you got me again. You are the only interesting thing in the vacinity of 1m, so how about I suck up to you Sucking up to me is no good unless he does something I ask..... And providing he doesnt have an issue with the area I provide the ball and triggers for play. Oh it sounds so good when I talk about it its not that rosy in reality, but we are working on it

I only told you that Rex somewhat controls himself while in drive initialisation. He shivers tho and looks obsessed, is this what you want? Becouse I certainly preffer the "Im obsessed about you" look to "Ok I will do it becouse you asked me and I have to" look

Kavik - I have plenty of agro or friendly dogs as well. I had one neutral dog, you have met him at K9s - Benny a GSD belonging to casima. I love Benny, but casima moved out of Sydney Re drive building v's control. I have been doing the ball thingo with him daily for a while in the same location, he is crazy about it now.... My out of control slightly driven dog has basically taken my arm off yesterday. Accidently and not intentionally I might add. Ouch!!! It was fun I find that you gain control with the drive building, the toy is like a hypnotic item you wave it above their head and if you practiced enough they will be sitting there shaking waiting for either the next comand or a release of the toy. Oh I love it, the intensity, the willingness, the look in the eyes, completly obessed... probably better look than OH when in love at first I took him to a diff location few days ago, there were barking dogs behind fences (could clearly see the dogs), a storm was forming and Rex didnt want to do the ball chasing. I persisted and done the "into my arms" thing near fences several times and he relaxed a bit. We moved away a bit and he decided that its not so bad after all and chased the ball few times. Im planning on going to the same location again over next few days.

Kavik Im after a list of neutralised dogs and educated owners so I can do some desentising with Rex. Let me know when you come across one, Ill pay you for one Re people wanting to pat the puppy - just tell them that you dont want them to wipe their dirty hands on your clean dog

If the dog is neutralised why not? Providing you know other dogs and people. its not an off lead park we are breaking the law... we might see a "outside" dog there once every 6 weeks. How would this be applicable to someone with a large amount of dogs at home, if I had 6 lets say, all grown up, brought up by your method, what than? Lets use a "in theory" scenario. If I found people that brought up the dogs up in this way, would it be a problem if we met once a week? with the dogs that is Same dogs each week.

I walk my dog with a group of other dogs every Sunday. We have been doing it for about 3-4 years, our dogs get along, but I have to say that they dont really play together, they just hang around. Occasionally one dog will invite another to play, its rare. They all are interested a lot more in either sniffing the bushes and having "who can mark a bigger torritory" competition or chasing ball than they have in each other. All together there are 8 dogs (5 males) Whenever we see another dog on a horison all dogs go on lead immiediatelly. People often aproach us and want their dog to play with ours but they are just turned away. There is no way that we will accept a new member to the group. Is this sort of scenario acceptable in your opinion K9?

I think that this subject calls for a workshop, K9 will you let me organise one?

My dobe gets chicken carcasses, necks, wings lamb flaps lamb necks, chopped turkey necks when Im lucky to get them pork bones or soup bones beef brisket bones turkey backs if by miracle I get some

An type of a bowl will get algae. So try to get a dark coloured one and keep it in a shade. If you change the water daily there should be no algae.

Erny were you in Sydney last weekend (yesterday)????? at the seminar???

Not that I have tried this but I ahve heard that people put small witches hats under the dogs chest, so if the dog tries to lay down they will meet the object. I personally would also practice a sit stay wiht you in various posotion in various places. Lets say you lay down face up on the grass and the dog is behind your head.

Doing some quick research I have found out that only gun dogs are eligible to trail in retrieving trails.

Ill start a new subject re off leash park and recalls etc.

KK - all my post was meant to do is answer your question of "is there a difference between a recall of a defence biting dog an a pet in an off leash park. IMHO there hardly is any and I gave two examples of why I belive so. As to walking my dog in any area I have a right to be in an off leash park with him on lead just like anyone else would. And Id expect any other owner to have their dog under adequate control as not to run up to my dog when I ask them not to. If your off lead dog comes flying towards mine on lead that doesnt like other dogs in his face, no matter where we are, I as alpha have an obligation to my dog to protect him, and if that means with my foot, it will be my foot. Hopefully before I use my foot your dog will take my hints before and leave us alone, and I will give it plenty off opportunities to leave us alone, but if it persists........ Im using "your" and "mine" dog as an example for this conversation, I dont actually mean your particular dog, I know nothing about your dog and its behaviours. Its just to ilustrate a scenario and what I personally would do. Middle ground? what do you mena by that? 5 out of 10 recalls? Im kidding here, dont take it personally.

We have had 22 new dogs join today, for a small club thats a lot! So many cute pupps, couple of gorgeous GSDs, it wil be great if they all stay and learn heaps. Even my Rex after a 3 month break managed to do everything I asked for, including off lead and distance work with few onlookers. Oh and he didnt "eat" any new commers, thats always a bonus :D

And as couple of you are interested what my decision is I have to say that Im sticking to the dobes. I love the breed, I love the look, I want to have two of them in my house and next to me. I have looked at some websites of working lines dobes (thanks Jeff) and I have to say that sch training will have to be on a backburner for a while.... unless a mirracle happens... I will get a show dobe, I plan on doing competitive obiedience and agility with it. Ahhh, cant have what I want I will settle what what I already know, like and try to excell at that. But becouse miracles happen once in a while my pupp will just by a fluke have some extra prey drive in it and I will give a sch a go Considering that two of the sch dobes in Sydney (i dont know how good are they, and how far did the owenrs taken them) come from the breeder that Im getting my puppy from and are colsely related to the dam of my future pupp, I might just have some luck. If not we will live a happy life of dog shows, trails and rolling from one side to the other on my lounge. :D

IMHO there is verry little difference between the two scenarios you have mentioned. For example, your lovely (lets assume its small) dog is off lead and it runs towards my dog agressive dobe and doesnt want to leave, you are unable to recall your dog, it will be either that your dog will get kicked by me to prevent him from getting closer to my dog, or if Im unable to scare your dog off/walk away with mine and your dog ends up too close to my dogs teeth, it can be dead or seriously injured. Scenario 2 you are in the park your dog spots his friend across the road, runs towards it, you are unable to call it back and it gets run over by a car.

is anyone going this Sunday?

Jeff as much as I belive that there are good working dobes in aus I ahve to say that they conformation is not of a show ring standard, so again Id ahve to make a choice of what do I give up. Give up the show ring or give up the sch training? Personal choice I guess. BTW is is Nathan that has dobes? Would you please either you or Nathan contact me privatelly, Ill send you my contact details by a pm. You might have missed the point that sch training is 90% individual. You turn up for a class there is no class, no group. All dogs are locked up, one is out being trained. That one finishes, the next one is out. Lets say there are 10 dogs to train, 15 minutes each, do the maths how long will it take and if you are last how long do you wait for your turn....

I was recommended a belgian. Now forgive my ignorance I can never remember which one is what, but it the light couloured on with longer hair. Id like a Beauceron but I dont think there are any in Australia.. In another life where everything will be perfect for me Ill import a dobie... or a Beauceron and a Polish hound (not for protection of course )

Basically but if you really want a full explanation search K9s posts he did explain it some time ago.

any breed phatdex, silky terrier inclusive

phatdex - I dont think I ever in my life said that they cant.......

Bex Im sorry you took my post the way you did, it certainly was not my intention. I dont know everything, I dont know how much you know nor that I even try to find out. I give you and others examples of my findings, you find them usefull, great, you dont, maybe someone else will.... BTW I have not discouraged you from doing anything, in fact I belive I tried to do the oposite - encourage you to train privatelly or get an thick skin and try to convince people to change the rules.......... I agree with you that its sad that you cant do what you want with your dog. But I also belive that if anyone wants to do, lets say, earth dog competitions shouldnt be buying a great dane..... they just arent going to fit in the underground holes.

mini foxies are know to have good prey drive as well and the little buggers would hang of any sleeve if only it was lower.... Drives and nerves is not breed specific although of course one would hope some breeds have more of some traits than others. Its not good that they HIT the sleeve, they also have to let go.......... or not hit it when you dont tell them to, or not hit it on a wrong person....... that pershaps isnt wearing a sleeve, or just happened to walk in the park waving a stick